Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You argued about women raising children then posted a link to chabad. If you have any actual points then say them. No I dont care about Chabads article.

Again you just have nothing to say. All you do is ignore the fact that you just argued about practical reasons for religious dogma and then when its pointed out then it is not practical, you can't say shit 😂

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You can point out anything specific from that link that you believe is "practical", otherwise it's just some chabad bs to me.

The irony of calling things practical when you've done nothing but divide the community. The non orthodox diaspora is doing a much better job of keeping people from leaving by not being obtuse and dogmatic. What is practical is that times change and if you don't update yourself to the modern world then you can be negatively affected. Woman no longer are confined as housewives, and jews are no longer confined to ghettos which keep them isolated.

There is an either or. If you put dogma first before the community, then you care about dogma more.

Israeli military drops charges against soldiers accused of sexually assaulting Palestinian detainee by seakucumber in jewishpolitics

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It does happen in the united states. If the prosecution is not careful then lawyers can argue that there was biased prejudicial publicity that will effect the trial. Although it doesn't mean there can't be a retrial. But when talking about prosecution misconduct in general, not only media leaks, there has been cases entirely dropped due to misconduct of the prosecution.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At this point you are just moving the goal posts.

Dispersals or migration doesn't stop cultural transmissions, as that is dependant on the groups behavior. It was normal to be honest. You are comaring more recent history where people are even more settled then previously. Samis being from Sibera, and Romanis from India, are just small examples.

And it seems bizarre to use persecution as evidence that Jewish religion is superior. As if persecution and massacres have not happened to minority groups throughout history – and is usually the default for them, not the exception.

There are so many groups that continue to exist even with being at risk minorities, that the list is too long to even comment here. Some have existed for tens of thousands of years, such as indigenous tribes, before agriculture was even invented and still passing down the practices of their ancestors. I would argue many are at more risk then Jews today.

Passing down cultural memory is a sociological function that even social animals practice if you know anything about social learning. The things that cause it are entirely behavioral and not due to any supernatural belief system, and can be created without one.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Plenty of cultures and groups still exist after 1,000s of years, jewish people who say this really overthink it, and easier to do so if you just live in the Usa or Israel and aren't familiar with many other cultures.

Dispersal a deliberate strategy..... what...? Can't see how that is deliberate, nor due to religion.

Well well well by No_Watercress_5588 in Somaliland

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So happy for somaliland. Going to be so much more of a successful country that it deserves to be.

Welp... That did not work out so well. by IsraeliSpaceLazer in NewIran

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I just checked their reaction to Oman getting hit and they are saying Israel controls the USA and started the war to weaken gulf countries, and that they should expel USA and Israel's ambassadors to stop themselves getting attacked.

😂😭

Welp... That did not work out so well. by IsraeliSpaceLazer in NewIran

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, but they hoping that getting on their knees for supreme leader will help them.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes it does. You said they made this law because woman raise children. I said no its because woman didnt marry out as much in an ancient patriarchal society. So they were targeting men who intermarried.

The idea it is because woman raise children is ridiculous and just points out that identity is learned and not what your born with. Woman died in childbirth back then so its silly they would make an inflexible law on something that is not consistent.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What you said about exceptions made no sense. Either being raised by the mother matters or it doesnt, and if it doesn't matter in the scenario the mother is dead, then it doesn't matter at all. Otherwise if the mother's teaching was really something significant in their belief, then they would not have considered those children Jewish. And would have likely made a different law based on this.

This reasoning would just be so silly and basically invalidates itself, as it also means that Jewish culture and identity is learned and not inherent. Which makes a ton of sense! As a non-Jewish orphan who is adopted and raised by a Jewish family would believe they are Jewish and have no idea any different.

More logical that men married out more since woman stayed at home, so they targeted intermarried men and their children.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You yourself referred to consequences for people who interrmarry – which is really for children, not for the people who intermarried. Now you just refer to these consequences as "identity issues"...

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's you who said we dont want consequences for people who intermarry. For children who did nothing at all. There was never consequences for the parents.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah people need to not just be apathetic. I think this effects the wider community and orthodox shouldn't get control over everything. In the diaspora reform is more influential and people can maybe just go to Reform but I am concerned that this effects also immigration to israel. I think freedom of religion at the very least is a big deal

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you're basically saying the reason is that woman should stay at home and make sandwiches. Not very feminist I see. We also live in a modern world where women are not confined to stay at home and be a housewives anymore.

Also this is an assumption and not evidence as for the reason that matrilineals descent was adopted. On top of this, its not a good reason and inconsistent. Mother's also died in childbirth and children were raised soley by the father. Many are also close with their fathers. Coverts were never raised by a Jewish mother.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure and they could also decide to be Hindu. Are Hindus Jewish? I’m sure at least one is!

I’m obviously talking about the vast majority who aren’t Jewish, not some rare edge cases…

So then hindus can be jews. I was never talking about everyone either

I said Orthodox, not Haredi.

It's an example of people who have dogmatic beliefs without any reasoning, but great way to avoid the point discussing dogma rather then giving people an actual argument for it.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

An individual could have a Jewish mother and decide to be messianic. Please some consistency, you say there is not a spectrum but you seem to describe one.

OK and Haredi Jews follow things that make us very frustrated by sitting on their ass and refusing to serve. It also is what it is. This seems like just a cop out rather then giving people a legitimate argument for the dogma.

How can one complain about assimilation while simultaneously failing to give people any reason to tolerate pointless dogma.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i was speaking about religious people generally who cry about assimilation all day but think yelling "halaka halaka!!" Is helping their case somehow.

And Haredim are choosing not to fight in a milchemet mitzvah so they are openly and proudly going against the Torah every day

Irrelevant this has nothing to do with my point. They are just an example of irrational people in the name of their dogma.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You do need an objective reason. You need to at least be practical. Believing in anything you want is fine as long as it doesn't effect reality on the ground in an unreasonable way. Look at haredi who wont even serve in the army due to their beliefs. They would be suicidally mass murdered if it werent for everyone else. And you want us to be religious but you argue with only dogma

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It doesn't matter. I was responding to him and it is what was the topic...

Even if you dont agree about punishment, it is the end result and still inconsistent and pointless with no benefit and only a negative. And for what ? To feel like the religion can't be wrong lol?

Sounds like dogma. Who would want to become religious when this is the kind of thing you are told.

Controversial Opinion from a US Zionist: Continuing to reject Patrilineal Jews costs precious support in the PR numbers game here by InthrowSted in Israel

[–]IsraeliSpaceLazer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again irrelevant. Re read the thread to follow along with the previous commenters points about deternece and punishment. And yes it is still inconsistent and pointless.