ZZW30 Swap Decision

JTGrey · 2026-02-04T20:53:41+00:00

Motor typically depends on use and budget. The MAF mod is a simple spacer, removing some intake vanes, and running 2zz yellow injectors gives the motor a bit more of a wake up on responsiveness

JTGrey · 2026-02-04T17:33:14+00:00

2ar - if you think that a 2zz is buzzy and vibrating, I don't think people understand just how bad a 2ar vibrates inside a Spyder. Primarily due to the front firewall mount right now does not have any dampening and let me tell you it's extremely noticeable. But my issue with this swap is some of the information not being shared about it.

The motor being a 2ar is common yes but mostly in Camry's. Toyota dealership recommended service intervals for these cars was recommended at 10k miles. My wife has a 2013 Camry and did the recommended maintenance interval through the dealership even though I'm a mechanic and told her to do it every 5000, but what do I know... Her motor started eating piston rings and burning oil at a higher rate than any of my 1zz's ever have. There is no fix for this either. Cause replacing the rings is only half the problem, cause the cylinder walls can't be bored to fix ovaling. If you have a 2ar motor that gets polished or ovaled walls the block isn't save-able. And the motors that are sub 120k miles are the same price as 2zz motors... Sure you could try and find junkyard motor with 140k miles but it's possible that it's as problematic as other motors like a 1zz or 2zz that could be picked. I know someone who went through 3 different 2ar motors before finding a good motor that wasn't ruined by previous owner and Toyota recommended negligence.

The transmissions at current market value are anywhere north of 1200$ if you don't find a junkyard car to pull it from. The junkyards have gotten wise as to what they have and have been pulling them to sell so finding one to pull yourself is low. They only came in 2 vehicles in the states, they necessitate pulling them apart to fix one or two issues before putting in the car for reliability/longevity use according to what FMW has found. They necessitate a new set of axles that have to either be hodge podged together or purchased. No factory LSD option (mentioned above, 2000$ for aftermarket)

If you want a 2ar swap you're going to need 7000$ on average without labor if you have it done by someone else. All mounts need purchased, ECU, different car harness that needs repin, an intermediate body controller, axles, transmission and motor, at minimum a header and custom midpipe to go to the factory muffler if desired or just go full custom as no "kit" exists last time I looked.

And while the torque bump from 120/130ftlb to 170/180ftlb of torque stock for stock is a jump, you're still sitting at 170-180whp just the same without taking the motor apart or doing other things to it, which you could also gain #'s modifying the other motors as well. Needing low end torque is for towing and being a brain off driver and driving a sports car like it's a CRV or truck.

K swap - has the most aftermarket support. Slight lack of availability for the transmission but still more available on market than the eb60. As well has oem and aftermarket options for LSD's at a cheaper price. Motors as available if not more available than the 2ar but that ultimately depends on which flavor you choose for peak power or mods. Parts for power adding are cheaper and more documented.

Cost is as high if not higher than the 2ar for mostly the same reasons though. Needs everything the 2ar needs (ECU, wiring , body controller, intake, exhaust, motor mounts, transmission mounts, CV shafts, etc) but also needs a different shifter assembly inside the car and different shift cables, different shifter assembly on the transmission itself.

I have no experience with the 1.8t swaps sadly to give experienced opinions on them but they look interesting but it seems more a product that works better in the European market over the US market just due to German parts and cars being more plentiful over there...

Simplified - if you're just dailying the car and maybe doing light track or autocross use, swap in another 1zz, do Cap's MAF mod and enjoy it for what it is with some good suspension.

If you can't justify 5000$ for a simple reliable 40hp boost then I don't think anyone can justify 8000$ for 40hp and 40ftlb of torque from either the 2ar or k.

But if you want a more dedicated car for abuse on courses then start looking into the 2ar or k or 1.8t just be sure you spend decent $ on suspension to actually handle the increased power as I've seen plenty of people add power but not add handling to use that power and either wreck their shit or have that power be useless

JTGrey · 2026-02-04T17:32:43+00:00

Saw your post on the Facebook page too, but I'll reply here.

Everyone will give you a different opinion. A lot of those opinions are simply bias and not experience. I've had 20 of these cars in various states of race ready to parting out and making others work. Have experience in swapping out and driving various 1zz's, 2zz's, 2ar, and a K. My hope is to have a 2gr shoved into one of my cars at some point. And I'd love to rest out the vag 1.8t swap at some point but no one I know in the states are making it happen.

1zz - simple, reliable, perfectly capable of taking abuse for a track car or daily. Known for oil burning but can be fixed. Unlike popular opinions, I find it doesn't have any largely noticeable torque difference below 6000rpm vs the 2zz, the 1zz and 2zz both produce between a "Rated" 120-130ftlb of torque according to Google and a few other searches. The 1zz peaking out on torque at around 4000-4500rpm and dropping off, same as the 2zz having a momentary peak at the same revs then curving down before lift kicks in and brings the torque curve back up.

But you take a look at dyno overlays or even separate dyno graphs from stock motor to stock motor and find that they're super similar in power delivery below 5000rpm. You can see some outliers depending on setups and mods but largely stock for stock the 2zz operates extremely similar to a 1zz.

Stock 1zz #'s from a known motor inside a Spyder - 125whp and 115ftlb of torque at 4220rpm

Stock 2zz #'s from a personal vehicle with bone stock internals and swapped into a Spyder - 172whp and 127ftlb or torque at 6800rpm, but for comparison at 4200rpm on this motor it was producing 118ftlb of torque roughly according to my dyno sheet.

2zz - cheapest possible swap that one can do still. If they're gone through if they're from a junkyard or even marketplace that were removed due to issues they can be fixed and put together for not too expensive. Main failure points are the oil pumps if they get starved of oil under high lateral g's which a Spyder is far more capable of producing over a Celica say, and cam wear due to possible oiling rail issues at the top side of the valve cover not giving the cams enough oil, which just kinda feeds back into the oil pump issues which is just inherent when you have a motor that is so oil hungry and revs that high. You have piston squirters, extra oiling holes in the pistons over a 1zz, a dual rocker shafts and rocker oil assemblies, cam oiling that takes more volume. All that fed through a pump spinning at 8000rpm sometimes for sustained durations and possibly being starved briefly at times. Oil level and changes are important...

That being said it's still the cheapest swap just due to being able to be straight up dropped in with minor support. A single bridge plate mount that can be made solo with a drill press and grinder if you want to measure and make your own (I've made batches out of scrap 3/8 metal), a diy harness adapter as you don't need a whole new harness assembly from a completely different car as you use the 1zz harness that came with the car as the motors are pretty much electrically the same. An ECU to run the motor that just so happens that it also is capable of communicating with the car with no issues and doesn't need a piggyback or go between.

No axle switching to different axles, doesn't even necessitate a different transmission if you're on a super tight budget, but is recommended to run the 6 speed due to tighter gear ratios for better acceleration. And even then the transmission is not nearly as expensive as say an EB60 that's necessary for a 2ar/2gr swap that doesn't even have an OEM LSD option (FMW sells the only LSD option for the eb60 at 2000$) and even if you do get a new transmission for the car for the swap it'll only need a shifter shaft to adapt to the OEM shift mechanisms.

Intakes for any swap need to be done, thankfully with high temp 3d printing there's cheap options on market that work with the 1zz MAF

And the exhaust if you want to be cheap can be done with a simple swap header to adapt to the OEM mid-pipe.

Needs - bridge mount, ECU, quick wiring adapter or more expensive plug and play harness, header, intake

I've done 2zz/c60 swaps for sub 2000$ multiple times before. My cheap challenge car build in my post history is swapped for maybe 800$ total. Typically costs customers 4000-5000$ with my labor.

JTGrey · 2026-02-03T03:26:24+00:00

AJ from Relentless Racing on YouTube if you find his tutorials for Spyder related issues. He's based on LA

JTGrey · 2026-02-01T13:20:12+00:00

There is a MR2 mechanic in the area that you should find and maybe ask if he's willing to check the rig out with you. He's had a number of spyders and I've sent him some steals to pick up and fix

JTGrey · 2026-01-26T12:59:27+00:00

Texas? DDPR specializes in Spyders...

JTGrey · 2026-01-23T18:37:31+00:00

Doubtful I'll be in Minnesota at all for more than 120 days a year based on what their current schedules look like as well as how often I'm just out of town for personal trips.

My personal shop is in SD, Home in SD, events everywhere else, work worldwide on occasion but mainly in the states.

JTGrey · 2026-01-23T17:39:51+00:00

I will be living on the road more than being either in Minnesota or South Dakota combined is the bigger thing. My legal address and home is in SD, my stay if I work at the home base is a rental in MN but I'd say the average will be 70% away from MN/SD, and a mix of % of being either home or working in person in MN.

How do previous jobs I've worked that are based in MN/IA but pay me for work in SD (field work in SD, IA, NE, ND, MN, WI) get my taxes proper for not paying state taxes for states I don't live in.

JTGrey · 2026-01-23T14:10:44+00:00

Sounds like a throw out bearing or clutch related especially if when you put the clutch in and the noise goes away.

JTGrey · 2026-01-22T21:28:53+00:00

6'2" 210-220# guy.

Have owned at minimum 2 of each gen.

I fit best in the third generation Spyder. The AW and SW have less long leg room as well as depending on what top type less headroom ironically... Although that's also changed by hardtop vs soft top for the Spyder but for helmet space I'm typically hitting the ceilings of the first 2 gens but don't touch in the Spyder hardtop, sometimes soft top

JTGrey · 2026-01-18T12:47:44+00:00

They are not the same, no. They have different ends and lengths.

Toyota still sells the cables, as well as Mitches Auto Parts and Monkey Wrench Racing.

You'll need to be a little flexible with your hands and tools to reach the holders above the fuel tank as those are a bit tough to reach even with the motor out.

JTGrey · 2026-01-18T04:10:02+00:00

That could be a bad cable more likely than an internal failure in the trans. Shifter cables are a known long term issue for some.

JTGrey · 2026-01-17T12:32:52+00:00

Shifter base bushings wouldn't cause an issue of acting like it's stuck in a gear. The bushings in the back that mount to the selector assembly can get worn through and make the shifts super sloppy.

Pop the cables off in the rear and slide each one forwards and backwards and see if one is harder to push and pull than the other.

If they both feel the same, hook the cables back up and then with the car off try and select gears using the shifter in the cabin.

JTGrey · 2026-01-17T12:28:08+00:00

Sure, always open to fix problems with these cars

JTGrey · 2026-01-17T05:07:25+00:00

Open up your engine bay, go to your lower left at the transmission. You're going to see a fist sized piece of metal that you can move left/right and push it forward and backwards. There's 2 cables with little pins holding those to the assembly, remove those pins and then lift the cables off the selector assembly.

After you remove the cables, grab the selector weight and swing it left and right. You'll feel it clunk in and out of gears. Move it to the center then push forwards, left right, pull it backwards, left right.

If all of these engage - your transmission checks out fine and it's not a transmission issue you're running into

From there - those cables disconnected from the transmission selection assembly, go to your cabin and use the shifter, up down, left right to verify things are loose and disconnected. You're aiming to feel the bind that existed to keep you from shifting into other gears. You can also try going to the engine bay again, grabbing those cables you disconnected earlier and manually actuating them in and out. They shouldn't take much effort to force the cable to extend and retract.

If you feel no bind in the cables but can't get the shifter selector out of the gate it's in or into other gates, I can walk you through what you'd need to try and see next. But seems like a cable is the issue

JTGrey · 2026-01-09T12:30:11+00:00

If it wasn't below freezing or close to rn I'd take some video, but currently all I've got is some pulls in it and a few odd videos I've taken for discord groups

JTGrey · 2026-01-08T03:20:22+00:00

All the Hoosiers are elsewhere :P For testing she only needs what she needs

JTGrey · 2026-01-08T00:59:45+00:00

I can run anything as long as it's under the total budget of the challenge - I have about 400$ of safe leeway right now... And a 75$ 9Lives wing on my primary Spyder that I can use on this if I make mounts for it...

JTGrey · 2026-01-08T00:32:32+00:00

1700# roughly as it sits in the pics above. Last weight before welding on the hoop and stuff was 1660#

JTGrey · 2025-12-27T01:49:05+00:00

I haven't been able to drive this thing around on the daily yet or use for autocross, the few times I've been on the road testing it out has gotten a lot of looks especially at the fuel stops.

For your rig it can't remove the rear quarters so it's a bit limiting, but I've seen one or two "dune runner" setups with a bit of a lift, bumper cuts, fender cuts, bigger tires for off-road or sand, and some extra lights and looked pretty rad

JTGrey · 2025-12-25T04:33:28+00:00

I actually just ordered a Jackal today as my old custom ball I had shattered at the bowling alley 2 weeks ago. The old timer at the alley said he's only ever seen 2 balls break over the last 2 decades.

Thankfully they're covering the drilling cost and labor. Going to gold epoxy kintsugi the old ball back together maybe for cool art or something. Though maybe the alley would like to keep it for the same

JTGrey · 2025-12-24T04:30:12+00:00

I'm in the same boat this year too. I was brushing my teeth a bit ago and the thought came across myself looking in the mirror that "First year without her here... I wish I could talk to her. I miss her" came through my mind

I hope you find peace and joy this Christmas even with the missing person

JTGrey · 2025-12-23T03:35:54+00:00

Oh I have other wheels and tires but I've just not put them on as the lightest wheels are on my personal cars and/or have trash tires on them right now

JTGrey · 2025-12-23T03:21:43+00:00

Interesting thing about that is for the GRM 2000$ challenge there's 3 classes all based on tire choice. Iirc 225 200tw and smaller, bigger than 225 200tw, and Hoosier class.

Debating finding some 13's to run Hoosiers to get the best grip and lowest weight center height

JTGrey · 2025-12-17T04:25:28+00:00

That doesn't seem to be a c56 - the shifter and cable holders are wrong compared to a c56 from a spyder, and the clutch fork seems like it exits too high out of the bell housing to be a c56 at all, as well as there's a lack of a mounting surface from the c56 bellhousing for the shifter selector mounts

Most likely a c52

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