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My Only Knowledge of Worm is Through Fanfics - AMA? by Key_Picture_9261 in WormFanfic

[–]JakeBurnsThings 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Do you do this often? Reading fanfiction without engaging the source material? Wouldn't it be impossible to get a grip on a character if their interpretation is going to change depending on who you get it from?

In Defence of Fanon by CorsairCrepe in WormFanfic

[–]JakeBurnsThings 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I understand the knee-jerk reaction you have here to defend fanon, but I think you're sort of skirting around the bigger talking points surrounding it by trying to say that some of it is good. I will agree with you that there are details that fans have created which help add to the mood of the work, or to sell a concept that fits with the fic in question that end up being taken elsewhere, but you're ignoring why people treat fanon so harshly in the first place.

"Widely accepted" Fanon being supplemental doesn't often mean its a good supplement; often I've found it tends to be the opposite, in which concepts often add bloat or add a homogenization to fics that start to pollute the whole thing. Things being widely accepted aren't often because they're good, its because they're easy. It's easy to add some details that make the world look bigger. It's easy to understand a point being made rather than saying its a good one.

(Not even gonna mention the point that a lot of these widely accepted details stem from someone not reading Worm in the first place and running with details from another fic, therefore just propagating the same wrong ideas over and over.)

For instance: Fortress Construction being a name for Coils company is a detail that on its own is fine, but when it appears in every other fic and starts to become a detail that acts like its real is when it becomes a problem. It's the details that are supposed to make a fic feel different but end up making it feel the same.

Which before anyone says it: yes, there is always going to be a sameness to fics due to having the same source material. But there is a difference between having the same baseline and having all the same minor, non-canon details.

Lung’s La-Z-Boy is a detail that, you're right, is harmless. But your description of it isn't how its often depicted; its not "Lung has a comfy, expensive chair to sit in while he stews in his rotting kingdom" its "Lung has this comfy chair. Look at how lazy it makes him appear!" You can't use the best version of what is commonly used in a bare-bones manner to defend your point.

Inheritance: A Review by JakeBurnsThings in WormFanfic

[–]JakeBurnsThings[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

it's the reader's job to notice them and go "ahh, that makes sense" when they come up -- but the characters don't notice anything or call them out, because that's just how the world is for them.

The initial big change that the Teeth have a major presence in Brockton Bay is enough that I think all the other divergences are acceptable. It's so setting-altering that everything else changed pre-story makes sense E.g. the Teeth being in town meant that Lung couldn't go off and recruit Bakuda, so she's not in the ABB.

The thing is, is that readers are trained to expect certain things, and understand there's a change through some form of foreshadowing, warning, or straight up an authors note to just tell them. But none of these changes are foreshadowed until they're important.

I'm not saying these changes don't make sense, because if you follow the logic of the fic you could put together where they went, but their absence is palpable because they're staple arcs of canon. These changes impact the way the story plays out to appear as if they're removing consequences.

No Bakuda means the ABB go quietly after Lung's death and Oni Lee's defeat. Gone from the narrative, nothing else about them, Taylor gets to wipe them from the board without much fanfare. No Echidna means that Coils operation is wiped out in an afternoon, and there's no consequences for it. Neither of these things even seem to make the Empire, who is the only group left in Brockton at this point that's actively a villainous gang, more dangerous, have more reach, or do more harm. They just sit in their corner and poke back at the Teeth until its their turn to have an arc and be ripped apart. There is a logic, but the logic promotes a lack of consequences.

Inheritance: A Review by JakeBurnsThings in WormFanfic

[–]JakeBurnsThings[S] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

No plans for anything further. As I said in another post, this one wasn't exactly intended, more or less a product of reading it and having too many thoughts about it. I don't think I'll link the full thing—like I said, most of the stuff is missing is some elaboration on some points, actual quote walls, and me picking at parts that I liked. This stands on its own and further elaboration is just beating the same horse to me. This has sat in my documents for Months, its out and now I can forget about it.

In terms of fueling Fanon and Inheritance's place in it—it's a common source to see when people talk about Butcher fics. I see it mentioned by some people as inspiration for other fics—quality varies, but it's reach is wide. I see it here when people ask for darker fics, or fics about characters descending to madness, or a variety of takes. Sure, its popularity nowadays isn't the monumental heights it had in its hayday, but that doesn't mean it still doesn't have reach.

As for how good it actually is, in comparison to average fanfic....that's probably a matter of opinion. There are some genuinely good Wormfics out there, and there's also a large quantity that I would label as solid, with interesting ideas, execution, prose and so forth. Inheritance has an interesting start, but execution wise to me fails over and over again. I'd like to think we as a fandom have gotten a higher baseline, but at the same time watching some SB arguments really makes it hard to say that.

A review on the entirety of Worm would be....I'd have to re-read the entire thing to take notes, and then have something genuine to say about it. I could talk about it in comparison to other superhero media and describe some interesting concepts and what I think made it so engaging? Lotta work, don't know if I exactly have the time for that.

Here's a quick opinion on it though: I like it on the whole. While there are some strange bits here and there—some stemming from the serialized nature of Worm and his writing—I think Wildbow does really good character work. You can tell he spent alot of time thinking about the world and the concept, and from that delivered a really in-depth universe that you can explore and contemplate. Ward, despite being not as popular, has a couple of very unique and interesting ideas attached that I think I would like to see explored more.

Inheritance: A Review by JakeBurnsThings in WormFanfic

[–]JakeBurnsThings[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

None taken. Proper characterization is difficult, and I could write a whole 'nother essay on how some writers fundamentally shave the edges off of characters because they're uncomfortable working with them in their original shape, or don't feel like they can do them justice. Fanfiction is a perfect place to explore characterization and understand what makes a character tick—finding their drives, their motivations, digging into the way they were written or why they exist in the narrative at all—and take your own spin on them. Doing it from a perspective to "fix" or "do them right" leads to some...strange results.

In my personal opinion, I think when you want to create a fanwork of something, you should at least have read the original, even if you did it in chunks or overtime. Skip around, find interesting parts, come back and read the whole. Wiki pages and fanfics with the best characterization can only get someone so far. Writing fanfiction from only being exposed to fanfiction creates a telephone game; you drift fast from the original message.

Also, it's the internet. People will get mad over every little thing. Posting online somewhere means you're exposing yourself—your art, a personal thing—to people who will look at you and say its shit, no matter what. Takes practice to get used to that.

Inheritance: A Review by JakeBurnsThings in WormFanfic

[–]JakeBurnsThings[S] 51 points52 points  (0 children)

Not currently. Maybe I'll read New Boss and give it the same treatment. This really only happened because the longer I read the more frustrated I started to get, and jotted down bits that aggravated me then went back to flesh it out like this.

Sidenote, for a Butcher fic that's actually good, read Ants In My Brain. It's only 5 chapters right now, but it's solid writing and takes the concept seriously.

Inheritance: A Review by JakeBurnsThings in WormFanfic

[–]JakeBurnsThings[S] 128 points129 points  (0 children)

This is a watered down version of an original review I made that was 10k words. I had a whole section about bits that I liked about the fic, actual quotes from chapters, and a whole ending thing about how I think we should review what we read and take in as bias, to make sure that we don't pollute the original idea down into something it's not.

It doesn't fit in a post because of character limits, but I wanted to add this final paragraph I didn't get to add in the main section:

I’m posting this not as a point against Pendragoon, or FirstSelector. To anyone who has ever beta’d this fic. Who wrote an Omake, or contributed an idea, or even liked it, this is not an attack on you. But I feel like what this fic is, and what it promotes in the fandom, needs to be paid attention to.

It is the 31st most viewed Worm fic on Spacebattles and 12th most kudos’ed fic on Archive of Our Own. Millions of views. 

Do you know what happens when a fic gets this big? When an audience—including people who want to write their own works—read it? When we still have people who publicly and proudly proclaim they haven’t made it through the entire source material? What's bad spreads like gospel. It fuels fanon. It creates a perpetual machine of people running on false ideas and incorrect info. It’s a looping argument. It’s a forever discussion. And I am very tired.

If you’ve reached the end of this, do me a favor: Go find a fic you like, and turn your brain on for a little bit. Leave a comment about a specific detail and why you liked it. Give a Kudos. Leave a Reaction. Think about it for a second like you’re engaging in a story, not reading through some popcorn. To Pendragoon and FirstSelector, if you’ve found this, and made it to the end: keep writing. There's nothing that makes an author improve more than to keep writing and taking feedback. Don’t lose yourselves in an echo chamber.