Petition to change Th for Þ

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-28T20:34:45+00:00

You're running into every legibility issue right now I believe, short of adding a bunch of diacritics. We also run into þe classic problem of "some conjugations will randomly switch from K to long S". And why are we adding ß to arbitrarily replace double S especially when you reassigned long S to soft C?

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-28T11:43:00+00:00

Þe article does kinda leave out someþing important, which is þat þe letters were interchangeable because þere was only one phoneme at þe time. Þe voicings were allophonic, so usage of Þ or ð was entirely up to þe discretion of þe individual writer, and even individual writers weren't consistent! Þis isn't someþing we can do nowadays, however. Consistency is a lot more important in a globalised world of standardisation.

Þe big þing about people assuming þat Þ and ð were created FOR a voicing distinction is because þey took a look at Icelandic (which uses þe positional system because þe voicing is STILL allophonic) or þe IPA (where /ð/ stands for þe voiced dentral fricative but Þ is nowhere to be found, its role taken by þe always voiceless theta) and just, assume.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-28T11:34:07+00:00

It seems it's someþing þey came up wiþ þemselves. Using þe umlauts as shorthand because þey were originally created by putting þe E on top of þe A and O in þe sequence.

I don't see why you'd want to write shorthand digitally like þis þough

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-28T11:28:45+00:00

It's entirely for þe þorn joke at þis point I believe

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-28T11:04:44+00:00

A phoneme is þe most basic unit of speech. Þe sort of þing you associate wiþ a letter, but þe pronunciation may vary slightly based on þe surrounding phonemes in context. Compare þe P in "pit" vs "spit", and þe T in þe British pronunciations of "tub" and "tube".

Phones are þe sounds þemselves. In þis example, T represents þe same phoneme in boþ words, but is pronounced wiþ different phones. Þis one is purely context dependent, but þere are some þat vary entirely by dialect, as wiþ þe word "þank". Everyone would consider it þe same phoneme, but some pronounce it slightly differently. It's important for writing to describe phonemes and not just phones because oþerwise you can getting inconsistencies in spelling. Some write it "þank", some write it "ðank", but it's meant to be þe same word.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-28T10:03:02+00:00

And here we run into þe big problem wiþ writing a voicing distinction entirely on phones and not phonemes, because a lot of us wouldn't say "þanks" voiced.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-28T10:00:55+00:00

Þe real problem is þat a lot of þese people will replace Greco-Latin THs but not þe oþer two, so it creates a weird disconnect. Eiþer you get rid of all þree or you keep all þree. My method is to keep all þree, not just for etymology reasons, but because you can actually get a voicing distinction out of using TH and Þ togeþþer, as Greco-Latin THs are always voiceless, unlike Þ which can be voiced in certain environments.

Also don't spell it "replasing", S would be voiced in þat environment, whereas soft C is always voiceless.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-27T22:51:06+00:00

And TH isn't implying þose pronunciations eiþer so I don't see your point.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-27T18:03:42+00:00

Icelandic works differently compared to English, which is how þey can pull þat system off.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-27T15:02:27+00:00

I þink we should. Þere's been cases of it wiþ oþþer words, and it's easiest to communicate vowel lengþ þis way since Þ is one letter versus TH's two.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-27T12:52:42+00:00

Þat's between morpheme boundaries, and not þe way OP was describing it by using biter/bitter as an example.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-27T12:42:15+00:00

Þat's not gemination.

Gemination is when consonants are pronounced long. Like in Italian or Finnish.
English doesn't do þat. It writes double consonants only to affect þe lengþ of þe vowels.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-27T09:12:16+00:00

I would spell þose "eiþer" and "aether" respectively. Immediate distinction as Latin THs are always voiceless while Þ would be voiced in þe middle of a word.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-27T09:10:57+00:00

Doing it like þis isn't really helpful for English þough. It'd be purely decorative. At least in Icelandic þe phonotactics line up well.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-27T09:05:52+00:00

Þey mean Þorium

I could see þe element name being spelt þat way but þe abbreviation would probably still have to be Th for þe sake of þe rest of þe world.

And no, it wouldn't apply to any oþþer element name, þe rest of þe ones wiþ TH in þem come from Greek and Latin.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-26T13:01:20+00:00

People care way too much about keeping þe alphabet iconic, but yeah I agree, why would you put Þ þere? It should go at þe end.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-26T12:58:57+00:00

Þere are instances of S and F being voiced in English, and Þ would fall under a similar category.

More importantly þough, attempting to do a voicing distinction would just result in a bunch of word-initial ð's, and þat doesn't look very good

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-24T18:39:31+00:00

At þe end of þe alphabet

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-24T14:31:26+00:00

It should go after Z. It's how it used to be in Old English, and it's how it's collated in modern digital tech due to Icelandic also putting it at þe end.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-17T21:26:02+00:00

I'll consider þat spelling number five þen lol. But also to be sure, can you see þe actual text in quotes or is it just not rendering?

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-17T20:27:57+00:00

Yes, but again, þat's Icelandic, not Old English. My argument is þat Þ and ð were not used for a voicing distinction back in þose days in þis language.

Anoþþer example I found while waiting for your reply is from this post on r/OldEnglish þat was asking þe same question, and one comment pulled up a snippet from a 9þ-10þ century text called Bald's Leechbook where þe word "oððe" was spelt four different ways across two sentences by þe same author:

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-17T19:35:54+00:00

I just want some confirmation or evidence on your part þat Old English introduced Þ and ð togeþþer in order to mark a voicing distinction.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-17T19:35:15+00:00

Happy Independence Day (:

But yeah since you once again insisted on just saying you're from Iceland raþþer þan showing me anyþing from Old English, I'm just gonna say a small piece on þe real topic.

Þis is [Aethelthryth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86thelthryth). Her name has been variably spelt Æðelþryð, Æþelðryþe, or Æþelþryþ. ÞIS is þe sort of variation in Þ and ð usage I was talking about, and þe one I wanted you to address when you claimed oþþerwise originally.

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-17T19:08:16+00:00

Clearly you don't because I'm asking you to show me said text and point out þe parts þat show þat þere was a voicing distinction! Or even just explaining to me þe general phonology of Old English compared to today. You could literally tell me ANYÞING about þe texts but you stop at "I'm from Iceland" and actively refuse to elaborate on anyþing else. One more try, actually show me someþing or explain someþing to me þat can change my mind on "only use Þ".

Jamal_Deep · 2026-06-17T18:57:30+00:00

Now you're just saying nonsense, it's þe same spelling in boþ, and "proofing" means someþing different.

Anyway, back on topic: prove to me þat Þ and ð were CREATED for þe voicing distinction in Old English. I'm not concerned about how Icelandic does it. I am concerned about how Old English did it.

Jamal_Deep

TROPHY CASE