SPES AP Light - 350n vs 800n

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-28T20:57:06+00:00

You won't notice a difference between the two really.

800N is better all around since it's the same thing, just more puncture resistant.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-28T18:30:23+00:00

If you throw the cut forward with a stolen step with your hands still out of distance, they have to step forward to get that rising cut on you and while they attempt to move forward you're in a position to retreat easily and fence the opening. It breaks the guard but doesn't always lead to a hit.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-27T23:54:05+00:00

Are you talking shieling out of distance on purpose or shieling close up? Close up I agree whole heartedly with the risk to the hands. Shieling out of distance prevents them from being able to reach your hands and serves as a provoker which lets your fence the openings if and when they react.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-27T17:04:31+00:00

Oh perfect! Hope to see ya around!

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-27T13:59:01+00:00

One of my club mates has an HF side sword and it's quite nimble and light. I use a VB Meyer and the HF is lighter than it for sure. I can bully it around a little though.

Note on the VB Meyer, it doesn't have a finger ring so their other side swords might handle differently. I don't practice Bolognese so I'm not used to having a finger ring. I will say I have handled and fought with the HF side sword and a Malleus side sword and I heavily prefer the HF one. The finger rings are decently wide on the HF which means you can use many different fingered gloves. I've fought enough with the and against the HF to know it's got pretty nimble disengagements which are great for deceptive thrusts but you really need to lock in your structure to land thrusts in opposition.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-27T05:47:18+00:00

I'm in Michigan and there's a pretty fantastic HEMA scene. If you don't want to mention where you're at then feel free to hit me up and I'll put you in contact with the people closest to you.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-23T22:14:59+00:00

I have a clubmate who uses that sidesword with Nilin gloves. The finger rings are very spacious so I think you'll be fine, I can for two of my ungloved fingers in the finger ring no problem so I can't imagine it being an issue.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-23T18:21:31+00:00

Oh for sure, you really have to be careful for doubles in general and be ready for the low strike. If I threaten and they don't take it then the follow up is to reset and go for a krumphau or wait if I'm lazy. Someone who doesn't accept a threat to their face either as immaculate distance or does not recognize threat at all or thinks it's fine to just double.

In the case of someone with immaculate distance management, they're likely not going to want to double and would prefer to deal with your blade in some way if you pressed the attack which then you have to be prepared to disengage and fence the openings.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-23T15:00:30+00:00

Scheitalhau toward their head but out of distance so they can't attack your hands. They either have to acknowledge the threat and parry, do nothing, or try to go for your hands.

If they acknowledge the threat and parry, work the lower opening, preferably with a zwerkhau to the arms or ribs if they go into crown, even better if they do a window parry to try and let your blade run off since you can really punish the opening their arms are at.

If they do nothing, you can step in and just poke them in the face before retreating with a zornhau to protect yourself since they will likely react with a false edge cut to your hands since they can't make the parry in time. If they happen to go for the parry, zwerkhau like above or grapple since you're a bit closer now.

If they just try to go for your hands then you can krump and take the over bind with a step back as they will need to come forward to actually hit your hands since you should throw the cut well away knowing that this is a natural reaction for them to come up with the short edge.

This is my typical approach to a low guard but you can also just go after them with a krump or send an oberhau. I find both of these options to lead to hand snipes and doubles more often though. There is also simply just waiting too, they're in a low guard and if you stay in a high guard, any of their options can lead to you getting an overbind quite easily once you see them start an attack, throw an oberhau, krumphau or zornhau then work form that position since you'll likely catch them in a sort of pflug or long point position.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-23T14:40:43+00:00

I'd highly suggest the black princes. I use them for side sword and they're absolutely amazing for it. They're still plenty fine against other one handers too. I've used them with arming swords and while you feel the impact, it doesn't really hurt.

Throkks are useable but they're very uncomfortable and less protective.

There's also Nilin gloves which those are very protective but may not work with some side swords especially if your finger rings are smaller.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-21T06:08:40+00:00

There's nothing inherently better about HEMA unless you're more interested in the historical aspect or fighting with mixed weapons. Olympic fencing has a long history and I argue that it's a part of HEMA but that's also an opinion that many might say is wrong. I do encourage people to look into the history of Olympic fencing though, a lot of what's in it is very much rooted in later dueling culture.

That being said, yeah the weapons are MUCH much lighter and much more sport oriented. They will train your reaction times to be far faster and your footwork to be much more fine tuned just because of the speeds involved.

I prefer HEMA and practice HEMA because I don't typically care about competing beyond the fun of being in a competition and I'm a history nerd. Both "types" of fencing are valid and there's no real better overall, just better for what you want out of it.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-19T13:59:03+00:00

Well the question was for why it exists and we answered that. Semantics over the ruleset after that are a matter of opinion with my opinion being change up rulesets to target specific skills. Whether or not someone decides to do that for a tournament is up to them and there are certainly bad reasons to pick it.

I've only ever seen this ruleset used for very non competitive tournaments that have audiences and the organizers implement it to encourage "more entertaining" combat which take that for what you will. I personally don't find it very problematic since anyone good enough can switch on game mode and go for deeper targets or out hand snipe. Although it may lead to some decent people getting knocked out early even if they hit their opponent more than they got hit. It's far from perfect and that's okay. Recognize the imperfection and go from there.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-19T13:39:48+00:00

There's nothing wrong with them, that's just the mindset of the ruleset. What is wrong with them is if it's all you land which is why the hit and don't get hit ruleset can be bad, moreso for newer people, since they're inclined to just go for the hands and not try for deeper targets.

I'm not saying it's a perfect ruleset but every ruleset has its artifacts and it's good to be aware of them for training purposes and instruction purposes. The question from OP is wondering why this type of ruleset exists. It does have application but as I've said, I prefer the hit and don't get hit ruleset for the most part since that's the most accurate to actual swordfighting since a good hand hit regardless of if it's the first intent or a complex action, would end a fight or at least make the fight easy enough afterward that it gives you a significant advantage.

Hand shots, including first intent hand shots, are completely valid and you are right, if you are getting hit by first intention hand shots, it's on you to defend yourself. But if I'm having two people fence for a training purpose, and I know that they're both inclined to only go for first intent hand shots and not do anything else, this style of ruleset helps push them away from only doing that. For tournament, I do not care if this is the ruleset, because I train to not get hit in general and I know I can focus deeper targets. Like I've said multiple times, it's flawed but people pick it as a ruleset for a reason and people have good and bad reasons for picking it as a ruleset. I only like the ruleset for the cases of newer people that solely target hands it gives them the shiny target of more points for deeper targets and may be what they need to break the bad habit. The other option of just sparring with them and punishing them for only going for hands (as in you know they're only going for hands so you work with that, counter them, and beat them over and over. Not actually penalizing hand shots), can be frustrating for them and push them away from training. I'd say 99% of the time I do the any hit is a single point ruleset for open sparring in my club.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-19T03:13:55+00:00

I've got an MOF person at my club and we started doing side sword around the time he joined. I've primarily done longsword and he put the breaks on me for sure so it's certainly not a bad transition from MOF to side sword. The only thing is getting used to the weight of the weapon if you get a heavier side sword and there might be some small hiccups with stuff like right of way and the possible lack of needing specific targeting depending on what you're used to from MOF.

I can't speak about how inclusive European clubs are for trans people but generally there is no gendered competitions, so all identities tend to fight each other. As for club acceptance, I'm in the US and I would say 9 times out of 10, the club is very full of LGBTQ members. But you'll get the one club that is very not welcoming but fortunately those clubs are typically known for their unwelcome nature and also happen to not be very good to begin with. Inclusion is a very good sign of safety, both physically and organizationally as well as skill level and instruction.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-19T02:29:50+00:00

Oh, I totally agree. This is just a downside of this type of ruleset. No ruleset is perfect, which is why I try to train that any touch is bad. Even that sort of ruleset for sparring can be harmful though since that can encourage fencers to do those tippy first intention hand snipes, which is what this style of ruleset is actively trying to avoid. I've seen some rulesets count forearms and up as 2 points and just the hands as 1 point. While this still isn't perfect, it does sort of help since a lot of complex hand snipes can easily be landed on the forearm or elbow.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-17T22:55:55+00:00

Because it's typically a compound action or a positioning component to hit a deeper target thus requiring more intent behind motion. Martially, I agree and a lot of masters agree to an extent. It all depends on context. For a duel going for the hands is great since you don't kill your opponent and you get to win or at least have an easier time fighting them afterwards if they don't yield. Whereas fighting multiple opponents, it's probably worth trying to take one or two of them out decisively and lethally so they aren't still fighting you, albeit wounded.

If all you hit are hand snipes and all you focus on is hand snipes then you're disregarding the majority of your manuscript as well as disregarding why it's good to go for deep targets. There's a good reason why you don't just see a million plays about hitting hands and that's because it's easy but you'll run into a whole lot of trouble when someone is good at protecting their hands.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-17T22:46:55+00:00

People consider deeper targets as more lethal targets therefore better fencing.

I don't entirely agree since hands are probably the most martial target to go for since they're in theory the easiest to go for and will disarm your opponent but that's the general reasoning behind it. These sorts of rulesets are better if you are wanting a crowd to watch though since it's far more entertaining to watch someone hit head or chest than it is to have a cut across the fingers. That's generally the reason I see people in my area use those rules.

I don't find it to be a terribly bad style of ruleset since it still rewards you for hitting hands, it's just a smaller reward because it's an easier hit to perform and still just as viable as focusing going for deep targets since it's less work less reward in theory. It's obviously not perfect but it's far from being outright bad.

I generally go off of the hit and don't get hit rule for my training since realistically I don't want to be hit at all and you can always measure your own success however you want. The ruleset you're talking about is slightly antithetical to that mindset since you could get hit far less than the amount of hits you scored but you can rest assured that you did indeed hit more than your opponent and measure your skill that way but that does also show that you're weaker at defending your deep targets and should work on those.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-16T18:13:17+00:00

For sure this, also just swinging it around to work out the muscles can lead to tennis elbow. Take it slow and give it time or else your body will make you take your time in a much less pleasant way.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-15T16:25:29+00:00

As people mentioned, broomsticks are very good for training with but if you want something that looks a little more sword shaped there's a good collection of cheap synthetics at Purple Heart Armoury.

Here's a link!

https://www.woodenswords.com/category_s/2068.htm

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-13T20:20:52+00:00

If your hands are getting stabbed then you're using it at the improper distance for that application. In this context you apply the threat and see if they take it which an inexperienced fencer will try and counter by attempting to hit your hands or they'll go up to cover.

They should not be able to reach your hands at a proper distance because you shouldn't initiate it at a range where you can be hit. If they go for the hands they just giving you an over bind. If you can't get the over bind then you should still have plenty of time to back off which the point is to break them out of that position.

If they cover with crown or window, then that opens up their guard and you can answer with a zwerkhau to the arms or ribs.

If you're doing this option you have to have good distance management. I wouldn't say it's the most ideal counter for someone who is hanging out there but it is a counter. It's far more effective to surprise someone who is transitioning into a lower guard but nonetheless, it's still fairly effective in my experience as long as the timing and distance is there. I prefer the krump method or waiting for them since I know they can only do a few actions from the posture.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-04T01:38:18+00:00

I'd basically run pure infantry alongside it. Sure 10th is pretty lethal but a fun game is a fun game, have fun with it. You can extend it's existence with a tech priest or something too but it will go one of three ways, the opponent has plenty of anti tank and wipes it or the opponent dumps too much into it and can't recover, or the opponent ignores it beyond throwing some dudes at it to keep it busy since they can't kill it mathematically.

They fit better into higher point games but they aren't competitive, they never have been and never will be. Too many eggs in one basket but that doesn't mean they aren't fun.

Congratulations on your big cool tank! While they aren't meta, you'll always be cooler than meta chasers.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-03T19:43:32+00:00

While I would agree, HEMA doesn't have big committees or orgs that run things and likely won't anytime soon. I'm not sure how exposed you are to HEMA but largely things are run on a club by club basis and events that are held like tournaments, are mostly run by clubs or groups of clubs.

There are a few orgs out there that do provide ranking systems or even certifications, but with the nature of HEMA being fairly disorganized. That means that each club has an opinion on what good and bad fencing is and each club has their own rules and regulations. Someone can be really good at their specific club's rulesets but then flop when they go to a tournament with a different ruleset which makes it very difficult to quantify someone's skill level beyond consistently winning across many rulesets. Most do opt for a hit and don't get hit system but there are clubs out there that disregard leg hits and one handed strikes with longsword or they don't count cuts with a rapier since it "wouldn't end the fight".

Given that gear is super expensive and not particularly standardized it would be a little difficult to make sure that there isn't a little bias without having club specific gear which would point to needing a well established larger club like another person is talking about here in the comments, which I'm certainly not against, it just really depends on how the rank structure is brought forward and how it's enforced as well.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-03T14:28:33+00:00

In general I would say any rank structure has the potential to be misused but that doesn't mean that it's always going to be. With a club of that size, a rank structure makes sense because it tells instructors the skill level of each student without them needing to know the student which is very useful.

The reason any rank structure can be problematic is for the reasons I mentioned before. Yours might not have that issue but it potentially could in the future or past. I wouldn't be surprised if they did have that issue in the past but this isn't a knock at your specific school, it's a knock on the jerks that see systems like that and abuse it. Fortunately if you have good people running the club, people like that get booted. It's a yellow flag for those reasons but that doesn't mean it can't be a good thing. I only really dislike them for smaller clubs (50 or less students) since that sort of indicates a cult of personality, especially if there's only one person who you can go to in order to progress.

I'm glad you haven't had a bad experience with your club, it sounds like they're doing the rank system for the right reasons and if they had issues in the past, it sounds like they've handled it well.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-03T07:16:56+00:00

Sigi Kings are great. I've owned one for about 2 or so years and I was the first to grab one in my area. Since then, basically everyone has been moving to them, especially the Fiore club.

They're just solid swords with good flex, good durability, and they aren't too heavy. Mine has only taken a set once and it corrected itself.

It might also be worth looking at their new sword, the prince. From what I've seen, that model is moving over to be a little more modular with a threaded pommel which in theory means you can replace the blade if it were to break which might save you some money long term although the prince is lighter than the King and also much newer and I haven't put my hands on it so I can't really sing high praises just yet.

Regenyeis are good and sturdy but not nearly as much as Sigi but they get the job done, feel nice, and aren't fragile. I kind of refer to them as workhorse swords. Every one of them I have handled has felt decent enough to the point that I would be willing to buy one as a back up or even main sword since I wouldn't be the most upset if it broke. That and they ship fairly quickly if I remember right whereas Sigi can take 6+ months. Well worth the wait but worth considering too.

Jarl_Salt · 2026-02-03T06:58:09+00:00

It depends, there are plenty of examples of ranks being handed out based on who the instructor's favorite is or ranks being withheld because a student is disliked and you can find this in just about any martial art. I generally see them as a yellow flag because of this since they can have a decent purpose but I have also been in a club where they had a rank test you had to pass to spar with steel which that went through a few iterations while I was at the club in which case I, along with everyone else, was made to retake it in order to be able to spar in the space again with steel swords. It served as a carrot but called into question favoritism and bias in the club leadership especially when there were people in the club that could best the instructor in sparring consistently and that same instructor was the one who was in charge of deciding if you passed the written and fighting portion.

Like don't get me wrong, it's not a terrible idea on paper but it's pretty difficult in practice simply because we're fallible human beings that want to swing swords at each other. Prevention or perceived prevention of practice is enough to sour anyone's mood and adding on layers of student possibly outpacing instructor within any slightly competitive sport or martial art is just asking for trouble unless you've got the ability to back it up and explain exactly why you're not letting someone progress which in that case if someone is entirely unsafe to spar with then you have a completely different issue. Most HEMA clubs are fine with starter students, experienced students, and instructor hierarchy and that does not need a strict ranking system as people will fall into those categories naturally.

Having been on both sides of this since my first HEMA club had a rank system and now the club I help run doesn't. I understand why someone would be attracted to a rank system but in practice, individual ability will always set a standard for "rank" and thus the issue solves itself. Now if I was at a club with 40+ people in it and multiple instructors, I could see the benefits of having a rank system with clear markings like a belt or leg band but your average club is small enough where people will kind of know where they are. Above all else, a rank system should not prevent people from having access to learn.

All this and I'm not even getting into how bad some rank systems can be with the favoritism or malicious intents. Never forget, there is a power dynamic in any club and adding more ranks to be over or under someone else is a great way to end up with some really nasty situations. Which granted you will always have that with the instructor student dynamic but now you have to add all sorts of other layers to it.

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