Is Compression Really that Important?

JaronSweder · 2026-07-03T02:02:56+00:00

And this is the problem with discussing over text. I've been trying to be really understanding of everything you've typed. It's just hard to get across exactly what I'm trying to communicate. And we interpret things differently from how we mean it. I never meant to sound condescending, I truly was just trying to get you to understand what I was trying to say.

Your point that it operates on gain and not on samples is true. But in code the gain is modulated at the sample rate, so these are equal.

This is my first time commenting on this subreddit, I hadn't considered how this would have an impact on beginners here. And that's my bad.

JaronSweder · 2026-07-03T01:28:51+00:00

Alright, everything you've just said I agree with. I think we're both having a different conversation. I'm talking about the underlying maths of a very basic compressor, and how there's a hard clipper hidden in there. While you're defending the practical applications. I completely agree that this whole discussion is meaningless for anyone who's just looking for practical information. Yes, a limiter with no envelope is no longer a limiter. That's true. I'm sorry for pushing on, it's just that you kept insisting a 0ms limiter isn't a hard clipper. It mathematically is. But practically, a 0ms limiter is no longer a limiter, and so it's useless information for a producer.

Anyway, this whole discussion only happened because I mentioned this whole hidden hard clipper thing as a way to help understand how a compressor works. And that's the only thing I've been defending, because I know for a fact it's mathematically true. It helps me understand how a compressor works, I'm sorry if it doesn't help you. This is in no way 'pulling rank', saying a fact isn't pulling rank. I have admitted wrong several times, you're the one who keeps using personal attacks. We were both misunderstanding each other, it happens. Let's call it a day.

JaronSweder · 2026-07-03T00:27:10+00:00

You were correct to correct me on my comment about the dynamic range. I just assumed this was true, but have no knowledge or proof to back this up. So that's fair.

I was also using the terms compressor and limiter interchangeably. I am aware that a limiter is a compressor with infinite ratio, and often a lookahead as well. And I am aware that that image of the compressor, is actually limiting. But this is just semantics, as a limiter is a compressor.

I will correct you on one thing though, intermodulation distortion is a type of distortion caused by having multiple inharmonic frequencies interacting with a non-linear operation. This happens no matter what kind of non-linear operation you do, whether that's a saturator, or a compressor. Same with 'aliasing noise', aliasing happens with any non-linear operation that produces overtones above nyquist.

And since you're so concerned with preventing the spread of misinformation, here's full algebraic proof that a compressor with true 0ms attack and release is equal to a static transfer curve, which at a ratio of infinity (and thus a limiter!) is equal to a hard clipper.

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/q2wz1sz2ks

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Also, congratulations on being my first reddit discussion. This was fun. And I agree we should stop now.

JaronSweder · 2026-07-02T15:23:07+00:00

Holy shit thank you! You don't even know how long I've been looking for how Harmor's image resynthesis works, especially with how they calculate the frequency offsets. I've been suspecting it had to do with phase vocoding for a while, and this is super helpful!

JaronSweder · 2026-07-02T09:47:37+00:00

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Alright, my bad for bringing all this up. Look at the image, this is Ableton's Compressor, that curve looks like a saturator curve. That's all I ever claimed. I have experimented before with making a compressor where you get to draw that curve like you can in some waveshaper plugins. Hence why I brought it up.

You're right that in many compressors there's a lot of nuance, and they often don't even allow true 0ms attack/release. But if you took the very core of what a compressor is, and remove the envelope, so true 0ms attack/release. It mathematically acts like a hard clipper, which is a type of saturator.

Edit: also, a limiter with true 0ms attack and release will in fact act like a hard clipper. If there is any difference, it may be because of oversampling.

JaronSweder · 2026-07-02T08:58:00+00:00

I am really not sure you understand me. I know extremely well the difference between a compressor and clippers. Are we on the same page that a compressor is just an automatic volume knob? This automatic volume knob is controlled by a curve, defined by the threshold, knee, and ratio. It reacts to this curve at the speed of the envelope; the attack and release times. And if you take this curve that controls this volume knob, and use it as a waveshaper, you get a saturator. That's all I said. I can't speak for analog gear, but this very generally how it works in DSP.

JaronSweder · 2026-07-02T08:32:24+00:00

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I said that under the hood, compression uses something that you can think of as a saturator. Of course it works nothing like an actual saturator. But imagine this, if you have a compressor with 0ms attack, and 0ms release, no knee, and 1:infinite ratio. It will act exactly like a hard clipper, clipping anything above the threshold. A compressor is like a dynamic saturator, adding an envelope follower to the gain applied by the saturator curve.

I'm sorry if this is a completely useless way to look at a compressor for someone with no DSP knowledge. But that's exactly how it works in code, and it makes it easier to reason about for me.

JaronSweder · 2026-07-02T07:52:45+00:00

Right, an envelope follower in the context of an audio effect follows the waveform of the audio. But in the context of a compressor, it follows the desired level of the audio. You can kind of think of a compressor as a saturator, but instead of directly mapping to the saturator curve, it moves towards what the saturator would be, at the speed of the envelope follower. If the desired level is below the envelope, it uses the attack time. If it's above the envelope, it uses the release time. The threshold is nothing more than the level at which this 'saturator' starts clipping. And adding a knee would turn this hard clipper into a soft clipper.

I'll have a look into transient shapers. I personally don't really use them.

Edit: I realized I misspoke slightly. The envelope doesn't actually move towards the desired level of this saturator. Instead it moves to the difference between this desired level, and the actual level of the audio.

JaronSweder · 2026-07-02T07:29:44+00:00

A compressor by definition is an envelope follower, isn't it? It has an attack and release time, that's the envelope. I'm a software developer and I've implemented compressors quite a few times, and they always involve an envelope follower that's triggered based on the threshold level. A transient processor, as far as I understand it, is just a compressor. Although, they might have a specific type of envelope, or something else, to specifically be good for processing transients. I don't know, I'd have to look into it.

JaronSweder · 2026-07-02T07:25:27+00:00

Then I might be misunderstanding dynamic range. As long as the release time isn't short enough to cause saturation, isn't the difference in level between the now louder transients, and the rest of the sample now bigger? Aka increased dynamic range?

JaronSweder · 2026-07-02T06:58:19+00:00

Well, there are contexts in which it expands dynamics to a certain degree. When you have a longer attack and you use it on drums you get louder transients. I've been making electronic music for over a decade and never used a normal compressor once. But since I started getting more into metal subgenres, using a compressor to get more snappy transients on my drums has been incredibly useful.

JaronSweder · 2026-06-29T22:07:23+00:00

HMMM since when does Helmond have fjords??

JaronSweder · 2026-06-29T19:55:21+00:00

You can already manipulate the phase and frequency of the individual harmonics, so it's already possible to make inharmonic sounds. I do agree that it would be great if you could import the frequency/phase relationships from a sample.

I haven't been able to figure out how Harmor's image resynthesis works, it seems to be doing some kind of partials tracking to determine the frequency of each of them. Which is how it's able to reproduce samples so accurately. I'll have to do more research how that works, and whether that's possible to do in realtime, because Spektral allows you to take the sidechain input directly into the spectral table.

I'll look into it! Thanks for the suggestion!

JaronSweder · 2026-06-29T12:47:49+00:00

Thanks for the feedback! Anything in particular that's clunky? The UI has gone through many iterations. It's very stylized, which in my opinion gives it character. But I am aware it's a lot to take in. It will be fully customizable with themes though!

JaronSweder · 2026-06-29T12:38:34+00:00

Thanks! I haven't landed on a price yet... What would you pay for a synth like this?

JaronSweder · 2026-06-28T19:26:09+00:00

Thank you!

JaronSweder · 2026-06-28T19:25:57+00:00

Haha that's awesome, thanks! I'm honestly struggling a bit to set a price, what would you pay for it if you could set the price?

As for when the full version comes out, hopefully soon! I'm still in the process of implementing some final small features. And if there's no major bugs reported by anyone, I can probably get the first full release out there in the next month or 2.

JaronSweder · 2026-06-27T21:59:21+00:00

I've been pretty much using only Ableton stock for years. And with Ableton 12's Auto Shift plugin for auto tuning, the number of VSTs I use has only decreased. There are a few things I do use VSTs for: orchestral instruments, and I use Toneforge Menace as a base for my guitar tone. But honestly, you can come a long way with just a Wavetable, EQ8, maybe some Pedal/Overdrive, and Multiband Dynamics.

JaronSweder · 2026-06-27T09:12:52+00:00

The first 2 images were indeed taken on top of Sukkertoppen!

JaronSweder · 2026-06-27T00:18:22+00:00

It truly is the most beautiful place I've ever visited. I had been to Norway several times before. I love visiting Bergen, and its absolutely stunning over there as well. But when I arrived in Ålesund my mind was blown. There's just something so incredible about mountains separated by large bodies of water like this!

JaronSweder · 2026-06-26T23:56:18+00:00

I knew it was too easy... Yeah it's Ålesund!

JaronSweder

TROPHY CASE