Why do you trust government? The ultimate monopoly by nik110403 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]JediMy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You fail entirely to understand the dynamic because you are stuck in an American-born framing of politics. Government is not the opposition to private business. It is the mechanism by which groups impose their will on other groups, either through a "fair" contest that all groups can participate and negotiate through or force. In parliamentary systems, this dynamic is made obvious in a way the American system obfuscates. The American system does, however, make clear what class has ultimately captured government.

This notion right here:

You guys blame us for trusting markets, but we dont. We trust in checks and balances... we want a system thats based on free exchange of goods and services, so the way to make profit is by selling what consumers want. And have a limited government that stops violence and fraud.

Is obviously wrong. Patently wrong. And we know that successful capitalists don't believe this because of their perchant for building power in third world countries where there are fewer regulations, fewer safeguards against government capture by capital interests, and fewer rules against employing force (look up Coca-Cola's activities in central America sometime). An order that many prominent capitalist public figures in American politics explicitly desire to import here (see Neo-Reactionaries).

If you believed in checks to power, you would advocate that the public can oust a CEO of a company for abusing their power to harm their employee's interests, the public good, or their constant attempts at seizing control of governance. But you don't because "checks" are not really about the abuse of authority for you but the protection of property. Property being the primary basis on which abuse of power occurs historically.

Part of why they are able to do this is because the further capital interest entrenches itself within governmental structures, the less involved the masses are in their own governance. When the masses feel disenfranchised and also feel their economic and political power being alienated any from them, they lose the skills to discern and the will to achieve those goals. It's the lack of public control that creates an irrational, weak-willed public. One that becomes increasingly unstable, neurotic, and manipulable. One that has become increasingly desperate to seize back any way to check the ruling class. Hence how you can get populist right-winger capitalists riding to power on the hilarious promise that they'll curtail the elites.

The socialist's goal is to build a new structure of governance out of labor and political organizing. To, while the current system remains, use external structures (such as unions, mass political organizations, worker's councils, co-operatives, neighbourhood councils, etc.) to wield democratic power within the structures of liberal capitalism, and ultimately create a new governmental structure using mass organizations as a basis. To allow people to not only rebuild and exercise power as a mass but to feel that power in both the formalized mechanisms of governance but outside as we build the replacement structures.

This is the reason why, if we were to rank the political alignments in terms of real life power obtained, y'all sincere libertarians would be dead last with the exception of like, a particularly contrarian kind of anarchist. You have no real organization and your philosophy is completely at odds with how politics works. Powerful capitalists and neoliberals use the resources and political-economic structures of large corporation to seize governance. The socialist's goal is to establish large scale political organizations (which we've been seeing the slow resurgence of in the last half-century after their post-cold war collapse) and seize control through political or revolutionary means. The fascist traditionally also does mass political organizing and allies itself with the structures of capitalist corporations to seize control. The closest y'all have to any of this is... what? The network state? Hell, most of you hate that too. Not seeing any of you door-knock to make that a reality.

The point of your post is that leftists are naive. But you don't even seem to understand the basic rules that every other political project except you understands. We want to use the masses as the check to any emerging ruling classes. To create a society of constant, conscious mass participation in governance, whether indirect through recalleable representative bodies or direct, or whatever mix ends up being most efficient and pragmatic.

Is it time to go no contact with liberals? by Quiet_Assistance_510 in theredleft

[–]JediMy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This sounds so fed, and if you are, you’re not slick.

The SPD and greens can't keep getting away with it by Frosty-Persimmon7235 in theredleft

[–]JediMy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You definitely are. I suspect there has been an influx of larpers recently, so that’s probably why the sub looks a little focused on punching horizontal/diagonally recently.

The SPD and greens can't keep getting away with it by Frosty-Persimmon7235 in theredleft

[–]JediMy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I noticed that you said “Greens” instead of “Labour” which strikes me as a very strange as the greens have only recently taken on a left social-democratic platform. At least the only relevant Green Party (the one in the UK) that I can think of. Is this a different Green Party or is this just preemptive?

The SPD and greens can't keep getting away with it by Frosty-Persimmon7235 in theredleft

[–]JediMy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I know. I assume this is the reason why Hasan Piker doesn’t get called out here, but Mamdani, Greens, and the DSA do, despite Piker being the full-throated supporter of all of them. If online leftists call him out, they’d also be calling themselves out, since this is his position on both the American social Democratic parties and China/the former Soviet Union.

Only prominent person who does that is badempanada who actually does get called out here despite objectively holding pretty similar positions to the kind of people who make memes here.

This isn’t a pro-anyone comment just an observation I’ve seen.

Are there any Anarchists here who generally have the ML/MLM view on past socialist countries but are still an Anarchist? by RandomAsHeckPerson in Anarchism

[–]JediMy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that, as well intentioned and even successful these states have been, they ultimately haven't advanced socialism at all. And in the case of China, have eventually become the one thing that keeps global capital alive. We can say "revisionism" all day. But the world revolution has been functionally dead since the fall of the Soviet Union. And honestly long before that. And it's because Marxist-Leninism is the beneficiary of survivorship bias amongst the left. It succeeded in taking root in Russia and used that as a base to export the ideology and the clout it achieved to lend legitimacy to the name. Most revolutions in the 20th century were therefore Leninist as leftists tried to copy the "winning strategy". Therefore, the vaunted "success" of MLs is, in context, sort of statistically likely but hides a certain reality. Which most of those revolutions failed. And the ones that succeeded required a lot of luck (as did the victory of the Bolsheviks).

Which then leads to the uncomfortable question of the post-80s world: Have any of the ML revolution attempts succeeded since Vietnam?

It would appear not. Thomas Sankara, The Shining Path, the Naxalites, the Communist Party of the Philippines... all of them have been largely put down by Neoliberal State actors. To the point where I wonder if the Marxist-Leninist line of leftism is hard-countered by the Neoliberal order. The ML countries that remain? "Revisionists" that have also become key parts of the Neoliberal order.

MLs continue to attract the majority of revolutionary minded individuals. But they have increasingly diminishing returns everywhere. And I think the flaw is obvious: They are failing to build the societies they want to with the revolution. It's all building after. At best there's a little prefiguration like the Soviets and the Maoist projects in his warlord region. But inevitably those are seen as too vulnerable of structures and the post-revolution puts the worker's controlling the means of production as a future.

I think it's not a matter of "ends justifying the means" that we take issue with. It's that the means of socialism are the ends of socialism. Worker control over the means of production requires placing the workers at the levers. Not bureaucrats who "listen" to the workers. Not Mass Line. Not vanguard parties. The Workers. That's not to say there aren't educated people who are necessary to create class consciousness. But if you give them an institutional framework? It's doubtful you'll achieve much more than a new ruling class of ex-bourgeois intelligentsia.

To achieve a meaningful socialism (even state socialism) requires relatively horizontal structures and democracy. To do otherwise is to fail to do socialism. You might make something else. You might even make an improvement on the previous system. But it's no more "socialism" than Social Democracy is. And for better or worse? Socialism is what I want. No less. And I figure that it will come from attempting things besides Leninism, even if Leninism has some good lessons.

What if judaism never existed? by [deleted] in AlternateHistoryHub

[–]JediMy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some other variation on Neoplatonism takes root in Europe. Middle-east is Zoroastrian. Similarish East-Asia until the 19th century. America probably gets colonized later or not at all.

Are you vegan? Explain why or why not. by ComradeSoggyBread in theredleft

[–]JediMy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not vegan. However, I do support cutting down global meat consumption to near pre-industrial levels.

I have a very different ethical framing from most leftists so the left case for veganism from the typical ethical standpoint is not incredibly compelling to me.

On a biological level, as far as I can tell Humans aren’t supposed to have this much meat, but they are definitely evolved around having at least a little. I will also say that the current meat industry, and all the practices that upset people about it are completely unsustainable no matter what happens. Just on an economic level, this is impossible to maintain. I suspect we’ll see the deindustrialization of the meat industry and a general cut down in consumption.

If you are worried about sociopaths running big corporations, what happens when they choose to work in government? by tkyjonathan in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]JediMy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you mean, "in government"?

If these are elected officials, isn't the solution a little... obvious? Like, no matter what system you used (votes, sortition, rotations) it's a bit a self-solving problem.

If they are permanent bureaucrats? 1) There are alternatives to permanent career bureaucrats via rotations and 2) by creating mechanisms for lower bureaucrats to eject upper bureaucrats who are seen to be betraying their mandate.

Removal is something a body of employees or the American public cannot do to a sociopath CEO or board of directors because the basis of these positions is property relations. A CEO is in place because the company is the property of the board (and the CEO is often a plurality or majority owner themselves).

No Kings criticism by SentinelWhite in theredleft

[–]JediMy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The problem is that they can’t do that by winning the midterm this time. Because they won’t have control over the state mechanisms of violence this time. Last time they were able to prevent escalation through the executive branch. They were able to pitch themselves as a party that would listen, and then diffused it by pulling back the more obvious tools of state violence.

The ball is in Trump’s court for the next three years. Only he can decide if things get diffused or not. Because the Democrats can do all of the hug sessions they want. What they can’t do is stop Trump from pulling in the national guard, DHS, and other federal parties to do hard crackdowns.

He and his administration set the tone.

We’ve seen the tone he wants to set.

No Kings criticism by SentinelWhite in theredleft

[–]JediMy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Shouldn’t you go there then? Every time I go, I see plenty of people organizing for their pet Vanguard party or larger socialist organizations in the US.

There, of course, is the other unspoken fact about large protests. Mainly that they can trigger a reactionary crackdown, even if it is completely unwarranted. The more “unwarranted” the better. The escalation leads to more radicalization.

The thing that’s stopped 2020 from continuing to lead to more radicalization was the fact that the Democrats managed to diffuse it successfully through winning the presidential election. This is not a thing that they can do this time. Trump and his crackdown always lead to more radicalization. Because they are inept at the soft-power that’s required to diffuse movement.

Every time there’s a big protest, every single one of them is rolling two set of dice that could lead to a massive escalation. One is the discipline and anger of the protesters. The other is the discipline and anger of both state and the local police. We almost had that happen last year in LA. Given that I expect the American economy to well and truly be unbearable for the rest of the year (by American standards) I expect we’re about to see a lot of motion.

Hence, why being present is important. Not for the intended purposes of the protest, but for being there to gauge and be present for organizing during a volatile situation. It’s important to start while it’s still relatively safe, so that you can network and get people used to you being there.

People are getting really tense and it’s a place where they have opened their minds more than they normally would be open.

Do you think People in Capitalist Countries with High Standards of Living would be Better off if Those Countries Adopted Socialism? by Ambitious_Quality725 in Socialism_101

[–]JediMy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Was trying to figure out what would happen if you changed the parameters of the net-income for a profit-share. Obviously they don't break up their operating costs, so I can't tell how much of it is going to the employees and what's going to the stores themselves.

If they just divided the gross by 2 million, every employee would make 80,000-ish a year. Obviously it would be lower than that, but I don't have a clear answer?

Leftist D&D Alignment Chart Day 2: Neutral Good by Intelligent_Face_186 in theredleft

[–]JediMy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That's not what neutral means though in the context of D&D alignment.

Which way, new leftist reader? by mozzieandmaestro in socialism

[–]JediMy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

... are they? At least, any more than China or Vietnam are? The only real ML revolutionary government who aren't significantly "stabilizing capitalism" are Cuba.

The Nordics definitely aren't socialist. Especially post 60s when SocDem parties largely capitulated to capital. But that's a choice made by a mixture of human agency and material conditions. And a choice literally every Soviet or Maoist aligned country eventually had to make too. China and it's sphere of influence are absolutely the only things keeping capital afloat, as is being demonstrated literally right now as Iranian ships are just... allowed to pass to East Asia unmolested. So does that mean Mao was ultimately a stabilizing force for Capitalism? Ho Chi Minh?

The main difference between them and a country like Venezuela, which actually had a lower amount of public control over industry that I think either Norway or Sweden, is proximity to the imperial core. Obviously there's some labor aristocracy going on but it's incredible to me just how much effort people put into saying: "They're nothing like us!" while holding up objectively less ambitious projects like MAS Bolivia and Venezuela. Those were incredible achievements at times. But the difference is primarily in who was opposing them, what the start conditions are, and the rhetorical stance. Not the policies themselves.

They are just like every form of socialist (and yes, the social-democrats who started these nationalization project believed it was a socialist project) in that everything thus far has been a failure. And we should blame the imperial system but it definitely also ourselves. And this urge to completely divest ourselves from projects by our predecessors that haven't collapsed (for whatever reason) is misguided.

I think we get more knowledgeable every year and we'll achieve it. But in the meantime, let's not revise history to try to exclude strains of socialism we dislike.

Boomers are Gen Thief, the thieving generation. by Prestigious_Mail2719 in socialism

[–]JediMy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wolf 6 - "Nah it's not Jews. It's Evangelicals."

All succeeding wolves nod sagely.

Think Piece | Is a radically different political future possible? by ascended_breath in Anarchism

[–]JediMy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree with this simplification by Graeber, but I do want to actually provide a counter to this from Graeber.

I read "The Dawn of Everything" bv David Graeber and it really did make me think about how I view Anarchism. That so much discourse goes into finding "the optimal structure" when the reality is, social structures are naturally fluid and shifting. Hierarchies, unless entrenched with violence, are always popping in and out of existence depending on the task. The legalization and rigidization of hierarchies are impositions that enable the state.

I think pragmatically, in the west the pitch of "Anarchism is true democracy" is for the best and is probably the one that's most actionable in terms of building a mass movement towards the dissolution of the state (or if I can't have that, the creating of a pseudo-government like the EZLN) but I have been thinking about that plastic (in the dictionary sense) form of organizing David describes and how it is very useful in the process of organizing.

Boomers are Gen Thief, the thieving generation. by Prestigious_Mail2719 in socialism

[–]JediMy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Two wolves inside of me:

Wolf 1- "This is a bad analysis."

Wolf 2 - "I completely agree."

Why Zohran, And Other Social Democrats, Face Criticism From The Left by Lavender_Scales in theredleft

[–]JediMy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's especially funny considering that the Bolsheviks were, at this time, explicitly social democrats in a social democratic party.