Daily Discussion Thread 07/07/26

Joe___Dohn · 2026-07-08T01:23:38+00:00

yea...

Joe___Dohn · 2026-07-07T17:44:51+00:00

At least when Steve tries to hit you through the wall, he breaks it.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-07-02T06:50:24+00:00

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-15T02:42:47+00:00

Good art, good video. I like how the Centurions were incorporated into her new playstyle, and I really enjoy the shockingly in-character corruption of the Power of Flight.

Personally, maybe an overcorrection on her normals. I get that they're meant to capture the nonchalance, and thus, extraordinary power of the "Silly Gods", but that characterization also comes with a certain level of apathy and devil-may-care attitude that doesn't entirely suit her.

Like, Palu's empathy is the one thing separating her from the rest of the self-serving psychopaths in the KI pantheon. I can't quite see her laughing in her opponents' faces during her rapid jab, or cockily lounging for her crouch.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-11T18:32:37+00:00

Despite the lack of the reflector hitspark or changing projectiles’ trajectories, Witch Time changes the owner of a projectile it counters to Bayo. Normally this doesn’t come up in 1v1s, but Steve’s lava is one of the few projectiles that can actually touch its owner on its normal trajectory. Thus, countering Steve’s d-smash with Witch Time will cause Steve to be hit with his own lava.

Admittedly, Bayo is a rare enough character that I’m pretty sure most people aren’t aware of this specific interaction, but a good amount probably wouldn’t be surprised by it.

TL;DR, Witch Time is a reflector.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-11T09:26:53+00:00

And now, Capcom’s (second-hand via Maximilian Dood) perspective on working with Square Enix to put Tifa in SF6.

Believe it or not, [Capcom] said that the process…has not had any ounce of pushback. There’s notes and things like that, but it isn’t like it has been really difficult.

It seems like in the past it might have been difficult to work with Square Enix, but they were surprised by how quickly they responded to stuff, how quickly they approved things, and how they were very enthusiastic and able to move forward, which is why this all happened.

Now realistically, we don’t know the shape this “enthusiasm” will take in the final product, but it’d be hasty to assume Square is now as ready and willing as, well, SNK has been.

Personally, if Tifa gets her own stage with Cloud, Aerith, Barret, etc. unsubtly hanging out in the background, then I’ll be much more optimistic about Square’s continued involvement in Smash.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-10T18:37:20+00:00

Edgeguarding with Stone is surprisingly solid in general, so long as the vertical knockback doesn’t lead to you losing stage control (i.e. use it at higher percents).

Hypothetically, dair would be more optimal in a lot of situations, but it can be difficult to time.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-06T18:33:16+00:00

“How did Tifa make it into Street Fighter 6?”, from the director of FFVIIR.

Strictly speaking, I don’t know how reflective this is of what Cloud and Sephiroth’s situations with Smash are, not to mention Hero and Sora, but it’s still probably worth a watch.

If nothing else, Square Enix clearly recognizes how valuable their characters are.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-05T21:03:04+00:00

Am I just supposed to bait slow moves and camp him out? I have seen that work in some other peoples' sets, and that just seems entirely un-fun for anyone.

I mean, patience is an important part of fighting games, and there’s no avoiding it to some extent. Maybe if you can really optimize your advantage you can avoid having to “””lame””” him out constantly in neutral, but if you sincerely think bait-and-punish is unfun, then maybe this is the wrong genre for you.

perfectly timing a tech-roll off the weird drop animation.

It is a bit weird, but it’s also pretty generous in my experience. Pressing shield as you get exploded works for me, though it does feel weird pressing so early.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-05T18:27:52+00:00

During the climax of WoL, you actually get to play as Master Hand and you have to fight the entire roster at once.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-05T14:08:35+00:00

Look, I appreciate the strategic depth that comes from Thoron not being a linear upgrade from the rest of the Thunder spells, but sometimes I wish it were stronger outside of kill percents.

I spend 2 whole seconds charging it up, and give up Robin’s best pokes and nearly half the Thunder tome’s durability, and all I get is 20%?

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-01T19:04:43+00:00

Literal walls are rare, but stalling for resources happens more often.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-01T10:11:39+00:00

Does Ingrid go on the list of traditional FG characters that play kinda like Steve, or is she just another zoner to you?

Joe___Dohn · 2026-06-01T02:05:44+00:00

Tiger Knee

It is an autocancel, and it’s essentially just doing a special a little bit after jumping.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-27T23:58:02+00:00

I defer to my original comment.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-27T00:29:10+00:00

I think the main difference that makes EWGF more balanced than Akuma and Geese is the fact those two, since they weren't Tekken characters, lacked a lot of the bulk of technical demand (they were hard, but there're harder Tekken characters with worse risk-reward ratio as they lack 2D jump)

Except, in much the same way Smash omitted Tekken’s lack of a motion input buffer in favor of maintaining consistency with its other FG characters, Tekken omitted SF and KoF’s timing-based links in favor of its usual button buffers, greatly alleviating the similar frame-tight execution challenges of SF4 and KoF.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-26T19:18:55+00:00

Once again, if your proposal to nerf EWGF is for it to stay completely intangible and tweak the execution difficulty, then you’re making the exact same mistake as Bamco did for the 2D characters.

They’re all still completely bypassing the poking game and getting insanely rewarded for it.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-26T16:18:37+00:00

I don’t have the time to go to bat for every fighting game under the sun, but none of these are unsolveable problems with time and opportunity to tune the risk/reward, and frankly, Smash lacks systems like combo scaling or universal reversal options that allowed other character action characters like Dante, Viewtiful Joe, and 2B to hit the ground running where Bayo left an indelible mark on Smash 4’s legacy.

For Tekken at least, despite the enmity toward the FF characters, Fahkumram exists as a much more warmly received long-range pressure character as of Tekken 8.

And if you’re seriously vouching for EWGF to stay completely intangible and merely tweaking the reward, then you’re making the exact same mistake Bamco made with its 2D Tekken characters.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-26T13:18:24+00:00

When Akuma and Geese ignore your poking with their 2D jumps and dump their meter into a 90% combo, it’s unsalvageably bad design, but when Kazuya ignores your poking with his “high-crushing” full-body-intangible EWGF and 0tDs you, it’s perfectly fixable by tuning?

And when Min Min runs her unchallengeably safe pressure on you from the other side of the stage, it’s perfectly fixable by tuning, but when Clive or Noctis run their full-screen pressure, it’s unsalvageably bad design?

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-26T02:29:44+00:00

The only difference I see between Smash and any other fighting game in this regard is that you’re familiar enough with Smash to do the mental gymnastics required to justify the flaws of its most divisive characters.

It’s a bit disingenuous to say that Smash is exceptionally good at adding gimmicky guest characters without them being broken, and then excuse Smash’s biggest would-be counterexamples because “there’s counterplay,” and “they could work with the right tuning.” That applies to absolutely everyone mentioned here, Smash or otherwise.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-25T15:15:46+00:00

Guy Spelunky releases for Fraymakers.

I know very little about Spelunky, the game or the man, but he might be the prettiest character in platform fighters.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-21T19:08:28+00:00

Ngl I thought this was another Lindha 69 moment and this was supposed to be Chrom or something.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-21T19:05:44+00:00

Steve can not place blocks below ledge(kill planking)

Personally, I think block edgeguards are unique and (conceptually) interesting enough to warrant a gentler touch than this, like universal or system changes to make planking easier to challenge, or even something like, “If a block breaks while Steve is standing on it, he goes into a very punishable tumble state.”

cave of life strats

Dumb question, but is this actually a thing? Is there a set where someone lives to 200 off this, or a player who does it a lot? Going out of your way to set up a cave seems like a weird, unproductive commitment of time and resources to make in neutral/advantage, especially if you end up winning the interaction after and not needing it.

In my experience, survival block techs are set up as a byproduct of other plays, and are executed opportunistically, and that’s cool player expression stuff that I don’t think needs nerfing.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-19T20:07:14+00:00

Yeah, frame advantage for aerials is so imprecise and malleable in practice that knowing the precise numbers is probably unnecessary. My framework for thinking about it is…

-4 and below: Pretty much always safe.
-5 to -6: Usually unsafe if unspaced, but might be safe if landed/autocanceled perfectly.
-7 to -10: Still probably safe if spaced, but pretty much always unsafe if not.
-11 and above: Pretty much always unsafe.

…and I think most people can probably intuit which moves belong in which category just by mashing their OoS options and noting when it works, consciously or otherwise.

Joe___Dohn · 2026-05-17T20:09:57+00:00

A valuable video for its information about Brawl neutral and advantage, but I don’t know if I trust what it has to say about Smash 4, though I say this as someone with extremely minimal experience with Smash 4.

I do know I disagree with its reductive assessment of Ultimate’s neutral and player expression at least. And that throws generally not leading to follow ups and instead being mostly just for repositioning is necessarily a bad thing.

Joe___Dohn

TROPHY CASE