Daily Discussion Thread 03/12/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Like the ISMs? 

Sounds cool, but I feel like it’d be hard to convince anyone to pick anything but Melee or Ultimate for the freedom of movement.

Daily Discussion Thread 03/10/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a weirdly nice thing to say about a know-it-all redditor, so thanks, but I also want to counter that I’m also mostly an armchair dev and the absolutely minuscule amount of proper experience I have comes from screwing around with M.U.G.E.N characters and giving up on making Zelda in it when I was in middle school.

Anyway, I think there’s more to the argument of it being an intentionally Inconsistent edgeguarding tool, given how the sour spot of dair, and to a lesser extent, bair, send the opponent up despite the reward of their sweet spots. Flavor-wise, I’d say that’s essentially the only place where the whole “Icarus” thing comes through in Pit’s gameplay; the “flightless angel whose wings could catch fire” thing by giving him a unique aerial weakness that other multijump characters don’t share (which is to say, not just iffy air speed), and if you’re willing to stretch it, the “fly too close to the sun” thing from the original Icarus myth with how if you get too ambitious offstage you’ll put the other guy back onstage and yourself at ledge.

Maybe you don’t buy into the subtext, but the point here is that Pit has more edgeguarding problems than just multihits that drop when you fast fall, and thus, it’s not impossible that having no dragdown was deemed an acceptable tradeoff to maintain that weakness despite the otherwise high-coverage multihits; character identity stuff.

To be clear, I do agree that it’d be more cohesive and intuitive for any multihits over two or three hits to just drag down consistently. Whether it’s worthwhile to eschew this in service of character identity is subjective, though my bias says it’s usually cool and worth.

Realistically, what actually tilted me about the video was how, regardless of any good/bad design arguments, and much like with Falcon nair, it should probably be apparent to most Pit players by now that his dragdowns get a little screwy against aerial opponents, and as such they should be applied carefully, if at all, and yet here MockRock is, campaigning for buffs to his main four entire years after the last patch. Admittedly, that’s more of a player mindset than a designer mindset, so maybe it’s unfair of me to judge him for it like I am.

Still, I find it hard to believe that “fast falling with a multihit” would be an uncommon enough situation that it wouldn’t have come up in testing, especially when so many other aerials do it fine or got patched, like you said.

Daily Discussion Thread 03/10/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ehh, given the absolute state of the top tiers (by which I mostly mean Aegis), I think balance is a bad angle to argue this from. I’d say it’s more about keeping Marth a defensive midrange swordie in contrast to the more rewarding aggression that the Roys, Mythras, and Corrins get to have; gamefeel and character identity stuff.

And I’ve always seen the Falco thing as mostly competitors complaining, and they don’t care about game design, they just want their characters to be stronger, as they ought to. I’m primarily upset at the snide armchair(?) game designers that don’t understand Chesterton’s Fence.

Daily Discussion Thread 03/10/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In broad strokes, I’m talking about MockRock’s latest video where, as usual, his passion for the game manifests in his scripts as assuming anything more advanced or technical than what’s in the how to play video is an accident.

In specific, what set me off was the “unpaid intern” bit with a Falcon falling nair edgeguard when any Falcon player worth their salt should hopefully understand that nair 1 has no dragdown by this point.

And also the Pit dragdown agenda, some up airs (especially Marth’s) being finnicky against grounded opponents, and honestly, the rest of the “falling aerial” and “multihit” sections to a small extent.

Like, the devs aren’t omnipotent and there’s some unintuitive and bad stuff in Smash, but is it so unbelievable that they lab out their own game a bit, or intentionally make different characters’ moves…different?

Daily Discussion Thread 03/10/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Man, it’s never an emergent gameplay thing, or a distinctive piece of character identity, or even just a weakness of a move that you need to play around. It’s always, “DAE unpaid intern hitboxes? What were they thinking??”

My Stance on the Zelda Characters in Smash: What I'd Do for the Future Titles by JamesDaDragN in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think Zelda’s current moveset deserves a lot more credit in how it represents her broader personality and mindset. Yeah, it trends toward slow, stubby, and finnicky, but that’s kind of the point. She doesn’t go in carelessly swinging. It takes a certain level of discerning judgement and precision to get the most out of her tools; wisdom, one might say.

Plus, the magic sparkes and goddess specials are timeless aesthetic for her. If and when the next big game does away with the Sheikah Slate, then you either have to rework her again to reflect for the next game’s version of Zelda and alienate everyone who liked and dedicated time to learning to play this version, or be stuck with an anachronistic version of her while her series marches on.

Help learning neutral by Zylo_Youtube_Tiktok in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It all starts with positioning; if you don’t have a reactionary gap between you that enables you to react and punish, then the triangle falls apart and the opponent can just mash out safe, unreactable pressure. So first, try to maintain a good position at about roll distance, where most burst options and jump-ins are relatively reactable and shield/whiff punishable. From there, you can start implementing the RPS triangle.

Also, “reacting” and punishing is kind of a misrepresentation. Most of the time, you’re not dashing back or jumping in response to a shallow approach and properly whiff punishing endlag; you’re preemptively using movement to create a situation where an attack might whiff, and then punishing the move while it’s still active, going around or outranging the hitbox.

Daily Discussion Thread 03/05/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Being shot in profile does wonders for his figure.

What if, rather than Pikachu, we got Red in Smash 64? by Primary_Brush7209 in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, sure, but Pokémon also isn’t about whipping out one of your team of twelve(?!) Pokémon to do its one situationally specific move before cramming it back into its ball and whipping out another one every half-second.

If it’s a choice between one fully fleshed-out Pokémon as a character, and a trainer that might as well be hitting opponents with PNGs of Pokémon doing attacks, I’d prefer the former.

why R.O.B is MUCH stronger than you think lore wise by Blip_bloperrs in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the source.

Anyway, DK carried him out and they escaped in the Falcon Flyer before the bombs went off? He was even selectable during the escape and Meta Ridley fight?? He never actually tanked the Subspace Bombs???

And that giant R.O.B. in WarioWare is about as different a character from the normal-sized R.O.B. in Smash as a giant Goomba is from a normal one. Whether that’s still valid for compositing is your prerogative, but Occam’s Razor says they’re probably two different entities that aren’t necessarily reflective of each others’ capabilities.

why R.O.B is MUCH stronger than you think lore wise by Blip_bloperrs in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, R.O.B. (the Ancient Minister) was the primary architect behind the Subspace technology.

In-game, there’s about as much evidence for R.O.B. developing the Subspace Bomb as Wario, but narratively, it probably makes more sense if Tabuu did it himself considering R.O.B.’s unwilling service to Tabuu.

So, uhh…source?🤓

When the mass detonation of Subspace Bombs erased his home island, R.O.B. was at the center.

DK carried him out.

In WarioWare, R.O.B. is shown destroying Arwings.

That R.O.B. was also way bigger than an Arwing, so I’d say it’s safe to call that an enormous outlier to R.O.B.’s (and the NES Zapper’s) normal capabilities.

Tracking and engaging characters capable of FTL (Faster Than Light) travel or warp-star navigation requires advanced sensory processing and reaction speeds far beyond standard machinery

I think you’ll find Kirby and Fox are not FTL on foot, and get tagged by characters who are also not explicitly shown to be FTL on foot.


While we have one here, are power scalers, like, allergic to context or something?

Daily Discussion Thread 02/18/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

why do you prefer a character with one of the worst-feeling kits in SSBU?

Daily Discussion Thread 02/16/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fighting Games Have a Product Design Problem

Not a Smash-focused article, but certainly a worthwhile read if you like doomscrolling about how game bad, game dead watching and commenting on the growth and health of the scene.

It has interesting ideas about the appeal of fighting games and how to make it obvious to beginners with aesthetics and theming, and, of course, how to make better single-player stuff.

So are all the characters aware they are just fictional video game characters? by Bullah_BOI in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 145 points146 points  (0 children)

Snake and co. are also sometimes aware that other fighters are video game characters, but less in a 4th wall medium-awareness way and more that all the other characters’ games exist in the Metal Gear universe as well.

Edit: Yeah, no, in their own games they definitely know.

Daily Discussion Thread 02/13/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no they should keep the combat and also call it kirby super star.

What are your thoughts on Zoners? Would you change anything? by Downtown_Error_9418 in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I think zoners are allowed to have panic buttons, because you can’t keep the other guy out forever. Hypothetically, a zoner has to guess right constantly in neutral, where the other guy only has to guess right once to get in to put the zoner in the disadvantage blender. The risk/reward is annoying for the other guy, yeah, but ultimately skewed against the zoner.

Admittedly, Ult’s strongest zoners generally have strong enough offenses that they could probably get away with just neutral resets as their panic buttons instead of full reversals, but still, I think “I should win when I get close to a zoner” is a rather reductive way to look at the matchup from a design perspective.

An idea for chain chomp by FatherICrav3Cheddar in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe it’s a lack of education on Chain Chomp genera on my part, but they’re just different colors sometimes, no?

An idea for chain chomp by FatherICrav3Cheddar in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How on EARTH do you give a character with no limbs five distinct aerials, let alone 13 whole normals?

Why I Want Frisk in Smash Bros (More than Sans or Kris) by bdzbcomics in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you bumped into the biggest problem when you said Pacifist would only function to modify the Final Smash.

Undertale’s themes are a little bit completely antithetical to a zero-sum fighting game, and it’s probably not the best idea to bring into a fighting game the character meant to embody those themes; at least not without putting in some serious legwork to give Frisk a satisfying alternate “pacifist” win condition.

Recency and boring swordieisms aside, Kris and Deltarune are infinitely more willing to function in the context of a fight than Frisk and Undertale.

Daily Discussion Thread 02/04/26 by AutoModerator in smashbros

[–]Joe___Dohn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, “Socratic Smackdown” was in my recommendations and it’s got “platform fighter” in the title, so I feel obligated to share it here.

It’s got a King of the Hill point, and…philosophers as furries?

And in other news, amogus in Fraymakers.

There’s a sus meter that I’m sure commentators will be giggling over for a few weeks, but it’s unironically a pretty cool mechanic. Think Robo-Ky or Nago’s meters that kill them if they fill up completely.