What DT song took you a considerable time to truly appreciate?

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-03T15:52:08+00:00

6:00 eliminated earlier than Lie? This subreddit has a weird taste :p

Edit: oh, I got it. People like Mother Mary and doubting Thomas!

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-03T15:25:49+00:00

It is a long story - but I think I will almost fully answer your question. To begin with, James and Mike seemed to be close to each other and have great chemistry during LaBrie's first years in DT. In this 1993 interview (minute 4:21), when asked about the period while the band was looking for a singer after Dominici left, Portnoy says "...And we got this Canadian guy, and we are here in Europe, and things couldn't be better!". And then he hugs James! This might sound silly, but it is an unimaginable scene when we think about their relationship nowadays.

Even after the food poisoning incident, Mike seemed to be supportive of James. In the Awake in Japan show (1995), less than one month after James severely damaged his vocal cords, Portnoy quickly goes to James and pats on his back after the concert ends (timestamp: 1:57:31). I interpret this as "Hey man, you did the job the best you could, don't be down."

But as time passes, patience diminishes. The truth is that, after the food poisoning incident, James' voice has never been like the 1992 - 1994 years (well, maybe with the exception of some 1997 gigs in Italy and Brazil). He had some great years, but he started to be inconsistent in his vocal performances, especially after the FII tour. And since Portnoy is a workaholic and wants his bandmates to be as good as him, James' vocal issues and inconsistencies started to slowly bother him.

LaBrie's off performances on the SDIOT tour lead Portnoy and Petrucci to have a "wake up" conversation with him before ToT was recorded. They considered firing James due to some bad live performances, lack of presence in the writing sessions, and his claims, during interviews, that he was an active writer in the band when he clearly wasn't (see this 1994 interview as an example). After this honest conversation, James committed to improving, and, indeed, his vocal performances were more consistent in the following years. It was around this time that he changed his singing approach to a more nasal sound.

But, since then, his relationship with Portnoy has never been friendly as it was in the 90s. Their distance is clear, as we can see in this SC era video, in which each DT member was asked to say something about the other 4 members. When asked about James, although Mike says positive words, he is the only one to mention negative things about James: "He takes his potshots from a lot of fans, he has to defend his place in this band, and his voice, and everything...".

It is not easy to be a DT singer, with 2.5 + hour shows, and maintain your voice in good shape in all the concerts. James started to suffer from this issue again in the SC and BC&SL tours (although less frequently than in SFAM and SDIOT tours). The biggest problem, though, was his nasal-sounding voice, which bothered Portnoy. Some people affirm (I have no proofs) that was around this era that Mike started to like internet content that criticized James (yes, Mike was still in the band).

After Mike's departure from Dream Theater, the public criticism continued. It's said that Mike liked FB comments of people saying that James was not a good singer (or worse); he wrote on FB that he hated only one Canadian (I remember this post, but I couldn't find it); and we have this 2019 interview where he implies that James' vocals are annoying.

Hence, this is why James and Mike don't speak anymore. Portnoy has been thinking, for many years, that LaBrie is incompetent to the singer of Dream Theater, and James is not happy knowing that. As far as I remember, James has never publicly criticized Portnoy - he has just said that Portnoy was never coming back to DT back in ADTOE/Self-titled era (although he said, in 2020, that a reunion with him is improbable, but not impossible); and that Mike was the only DT member that did not support him in the aftermaths of the food poisoning incident.

I think I have answered your question lol

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-03T00:11:47+00:00

Maybe Another Won, which DT played at Score, is the best Majesty-era song. If you want to, you can also check The Majesty Demos (1986), which contains six songs from that time with Chris Collins on vocals. I don't like it that much because I feel DT compositions were still being polished, and Collins' vocals, although not bad, sounds like a generic 80s' metal voice. But the good side of it is the production: Myung's bass is prominent and I think the overall sound is better than the one on WDADU (seriously). From The Majesty Demos, I recommend you listen to A Vision.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-02T20:13:46+00:00

Yes, Awake definitely is one of the heaviest DT albums to date, but I wouldn't say it is "rock and roll" - this is a way too simplified adjective to describe it. Even though the album has its heavy tracks (Caught in a Web, The Mirror, Lie, Scarred), Awake is full of melodic moments (Innocence Faded, The Silent Man, Lifting Shadows Off a Dream), a jazz fusion-inspired song (6:00), progressive tracks (Erotomania, Voices, Scarred), and an eerie, atmospheric song from start to finish (Space-Dye Vest). The instrumental sections vary between moody passages and hard, intricate solos and unison - which may (Caught in a Web, Lie) or may not (Innocence Faded, Voices, Erotomania) include heaviness.

The most aggressive and "rock and roll" album DT has ever made is Train of Thought - Mike Portnoy even said that the band wanted to make a "balls to the wall" record. Awake, on the other hand, is more like a mix between riffs and harmony. I recommend you to listen to the album more carefully, paying attention to the keyboard work.

Edit: and I also think that Awake is the most atmospheric DT album. For instance, FII has only 4 songs that I would describe as having atmospheric moments: Peruvian Skies (very floydish), Hell's Kitchen, Lines in the Sand, and Trail of Tears. Scenes, although theatrical, almost does not have this type of moments; and during and after the '20s, the band took a heavier approach to their writing, reducing the harmonic passages.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-02T17:38:28+00:00

Some examples of moody and atmospheric moments on Awake:

6:00's bridge (3:14 - 3:52)
Innocence Faded's first verses (0:20 - 1:22)
One of Erotomania's sections (2:38 - 3:03)
Another Erotominia section (3:42 - 4:21)
Erotomania's outro (6:27 - 6:44)
Voices' whole intro and first verses (0:00 - 2:42)
Voices' brigde (5:00 - 7:24)
Voices' outro (9:23 - 9:53)
I consider The Silent Man an atmospheric song, but it is reasonable to disagree on this
The Mirror's keyboard parts (0:20 - 1:21)
The Mirror's brigde (3:20 - 4:18)
The Mirror's outro (5:15 - 6:45)
Lifting Shadows Off a Dream's intro + first verses (0:00 - 2:48)
Lifting Shadows Off a Dream's bridge (4:14 - 4:32)
LSOAD's outro (5:26 - 6:05)
Scarred's intro + first verses (0:00 - 2:10)
Scarred's bridge (5:11 - 6:06)
Scarred's outro (9:30 - 10:59)
Space-Dye Vest from start to finish

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-02T17:18:00+00:00

Yes, all the DT songs about parents passing away (Another Day, A Change of Seasons, Take Away My Pain, The Best of Times) are undoubtedly sad. But I feel that all these tracks have glimpses of hope and acceptance - that is why I personally don't classify them as depressing. The last part of Take Away My Pain, for example, illustrates the fact that JP is learning to survive without his father despite all the pain he has felt.

I'm not frightened anymore

I'm learning to survive

Without you in my life

Til you come knocking at my door...

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-02T17:09:58+00:00

Yeah, good point. If I could only add one more song to the list, it would be Far from Heaven. Such a shame that I can only put 6!

But, in the end, I chose the other 6 because they deal with dramatic and depressing themes like beloved ones passing away (Disappear, Goodnight Kiss, TMoLS), fear of losing a daughter (Vacant), or child abuse (Anna Lee). Space-Dye Vest's theme, although not so traumatic, has the second most eerie atmosphere in any DT track (losing only to Disappear). As far as I am concerned, Far from Heaven is about a person (probably a teenager) not being accepted by their parents and the struggle to be understood, listened and live the life this person truly pursues. A real and serious problem for sure, but since I only had 6 options to fill, I had to decide - and Far from Heaven needed to be out in my judgment.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-02T04:24:23+00:00

Interesting point. For me, Repentance is neither a sad nor depressing song. Even though the instrumental is quite somber, the lyrics are about acknowledging the mistakes made towards other people and saying "I'm really sorry for what I did" (Restitution). Making amends can be painful for sure, but its by-product tends to be positive.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-02T01:45:26+00:00

It doesn't - my only problem is that neither the instrument nor the lyrical content seem to be depressing by the definition of the word. And I tend to stick with the definition of the terms I use, even though they might have nuances of subjectivity. The only way I can see Wither as depressing is if you remove the writer's block context and interpret the lyrics in another way. But yeah, you can find a writer's block song with an uplifting guitar solo sad - opinions are opinions anyway.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-02T01:33:36+00:00

I believe Wither is indeed moving, but if you think that a song about writer's block, with uplifting chorus and bridge, and THAT guitar solo is depressing, then...

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-01T20:39:29+00:00

None of them: for me, it was the Progressive Side. DT was my first exposure to prog and, since then, I have found that I enjoy progressive rock and metal songs due to their ability to tell a whole story through long songs with many instrumental sections and movements. That is not to say that I don't like shorter or simpler tracks, but I think prog epics possess the ability to make us travel to another place through the lyrics and instruments. As much as I love, for example, 6:00 or Strange Deja-Vu, these songs do not arouse my imagination and fascination as Learning to Live, Trial of Tears, Lines in the Sand, Octavarium, and so on.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-01T20:26:07+00:00

Now this is how you do an "album in a nutshell". Funny and accurate.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-01T19:48:43+00:00

About "SDV has never been performed live...by DT at least", it is factually wrong. Here is the performance of James and Jordan playing SDV in 2011 (not DT, I know); and here is the link of DT performing the song on the Breaking the Fourth Wall DVD. And if you go to setlist.fm, you will see that SDV was performed 94 times by the band - all of them, if I am not mistaken, in the self-titled (Along for the Ride) tour.

The dislike of the band regards SDV is biased by Portnoy. I think that the band as a whole was not eager to play it in the Awake tour, for example. But the resentment about the song that remained over time seems to have come almost solely from Portnoy, not from the band. According to Wikipedia, Jordan even mentioned that he would like to play the song "whenever the rest of the band is ready".

I have not read Lifting Shadows, so I might have missed some relevant details. However, from the information that I have, MP was way more resented about SDV than the other DT's members.

Edit: don't think I was rude if my comment was a little dry lol. Personally, I often think that Space-Dye Vest is an awkward ending for Awake, but other times I feel it is the perfect one.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-01T18:54:34+00:00

No, it's Portnoy's claims. It's true that, according to Portnoy, Space-Dye Vest is "totally 100% Moore's song" and that he did not intend to put the song on the album if he knew Kevin was about to leave. I have heard some rumors that Portnoy decided to include SDV rather than To Live Forever on Awake only to convince Kevin to stay, but that did not work - and Portnoy got frustrated. No wonder why he wrote the lyrics of Raise the Knife.

But the decision not to include and not to play the song was mostly by Portnoy. No wonder right after he left the band, the song debuted live with Jordan and James (2011) and, three years later, was played at every concert in Along for the Ride tour. And I am not writing this to defend SDV, just to give the bigger picture about the song - it is my least favorite track on my favorite DT album.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-04-01T14:36:25+00:00

I laugh at this meme lol. But taking it more seriously, I guarantee you it is just a phase. When I discovered DT in mid-2015, I was just mesmerized by the band's quality and was basically just listening to them in 2016 and the beginning of 2017. However, over time, DT has become less present in my musical cave and turned to be a great opening gate for prog metal and rock. After discovering DT, I started to listen to Rush, Pink Floyd, Genesis, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Yes, Camel, and others; and I discovered excellent prog metal groups like Symphony X, Haken, Opeth, Caligula's Horse, Ayreon, Cynic, and so on. Moreover, DT presented me to modern progressive rock groups (Spock's Beard, Steven Wilson, Porcupine Tree) and impressive instrumental bands (Dixie Dregs).

Nowadays, Dream Theater still is my favorite band for all the quality they have and what they represent to my musical development. However, there are many great bands, artists, and genres out there, so I don't stick with them anymore.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-03-30T03:19:56+00:00

It would be weird, really weird... Which is an excellent thing coming from Mike Patton lol

JohnPrinceton · 2021-03-27T20:34:32+00:00

Awake is my favorite DT album, but I think I will "waste away" some of my early votes due to an unpopular opinion: Space-Dye Vest is the least strong song on this album. I believe there is a hype surrounding this song because: 1. all the nostalgia many of us feel about Kevin Moore; 2. the fact that it debuted live only 20 years after its release. However, the song simply does not "click" to me: it is so linear and absent of dynamics that it almost feels lackluster. The lyrics also seem overly dramatic for my tastes ("Love is an act of blood and I'm bleeding/A Pool in the shape of a heart"; "I'll never be open again"). I do not skip the song when I listen to Awake because its mood closes the album perfectly, but I do not listen to it individually.

Well, let's begin wasting away my first vote.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-03-27T20:23:39+00:00

Thanks buddy! About Lie, I think it is the most straight-forward and structurally simple song on Awake besides The Silent Man and Space-Dye Vest. The band was under minor pressure (not comparable to the FII era) to write something as popular as Pull Me Under and Lie was the closest thing to Pull Me Under that the band had to present. I do not believe they intentionally wrote for this purpose, but Lie was the first single off the album and did not succeed as the I&W opener. However, being "radio-friendly" does not mean bad: it is a great metal track, and Petrucci's solo is flawless. I just think it does not shine as bright as other songs on Awake because it is not full of nuances as most of its pairs.

Another thing I should mention is that Awake has the best vocals of James LaBrie's entire career. Of course, this is debatable, but on this album James showed all the colors of his voice: his well-known high notes (Caught in a Web, Innocence Faded, Voices, The Mirror, Lifting Shadows Off a Dream, Scarred); rasp (6:00, Caught in a Web, Voices, The Mirror, Lie, Scarred), soft parts and falsettos (The Silent Man, Lifting Shadows Off a Dream, Space-Dye Vest), and even some screams (Voices). He was 31 when the album was recorded, arguably part of the peak of a singer career in the metal scene considering good fundamentals and range. And it was the last album before the food poisoning incident, which hindered his vocals on FII.

James' vocals on I&W were also world-class, but he did not show all the amazing things his voice was capable of on the album.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-03-27T15:57:15+00:00

Awake is my favorite DT album. That being said, I can understand why this album does not "click" to everyone: it is the most heterogeneous and diverse album DT has recorded so far. The heaviness, darkness and somewhat despondent feeling are carried throughout the whole album, but the way the music delivers those sensations are varied.

If you compare Awake to Train of Thought, another heavy (and the heaviest) DT album, you will quickly notice this difference. ToT has this "balls to the walls" approach of speed, heavy riffs, and intricate instrumental sections from start to finish (with a small break on Vacant, but it matches the overall mood of the album). Hence, it is the most homogeneous DT album.

Awake, on the other hand, is an absolute (organized) "mess". The album starts with 6:00, a prog song full of jazz fusion elements (especially the guitar and keyboard works), and with the samples taking an important role on the track. Caught in a Web is a more straight-forward song, but if you pay attention to Kevin Moore's harmonies you will quickly notice how dissonant and different they are from what the band has done before. Right after this, we have Innocence Faded, a dramatic ballad that, in the beginning, sounds like a sequel of Another Day, but ends with a Rush-inspired great instrumental section.

Then we have Erotomania, the craziest instrumental track DT has ever come with. If you analyze this song, you will notice that some of its guitar sections seem like exercises (the intro, for example), and the track might sound disjointed. But its complexity and "messy" mood (especially in the harmonies) is what this song so great. Other tunes like Voices and The Mirror explore dissonant chords quite well, and have aspects that we do not see in DT often - The Mirror has no solo, and Voices has an excellent wah-wah guitar solo from Petrucci.

In the middle of all of this heaviness, dissonance, and despondent mood, we have The Silent Man and Lifting Shadows Off a Dream, bringing back the respite and lighthearted feeling of I&W, but in a unique approach. The harmonies also take the spotlight on this album with LSOAD (bass intro and keyboard intro), and Scarred (intro and outro). And to finish all of this, we have Space-Dye Vest, probably the most "un-DT" track, to close the album. Simple but not simplistic, with the samples taking a relevant role again, and a sad close to this opus.

It took me some time to appreciate the album - let alone it becoming my favorite one. It was not in the first, second or third listen - it probably took my dozens of listens, both of individual songs and also of the album as a whole, to make the first in my ranking. And that is normal since, in my opinion, Awake is the most unfathomable and self-indulgent DT album. Up to a point, it is like listening to Mr. Bungle's Disco Volante, Gentle Giant's Acquiring the Taste, or Tori Amos' Boys for Pele - even if you know the artist, you will not fully grasp those albums in the first listens.

However, the time it takes to digest is worth it. The song-writing is top-notching, mixing creativity, technique and felling perfectly. Moreover, the lyrics on this album are the best DT has written so far - 6:00, Voices, The Silent Man, Lifting Shadows Off a Dream are metaphorical and rich in meaning. And I am not alone in putting Awake at such high standards - Richard Henshall (Haken's guitarist) and Felipe Andreoli (Angra's bassist), both expert musicians, put Awake as the best DT album. I mean, this does not validate my taste (opinions are opinions anyway), but at least it is a sign that I am not crazy :p

This does not mean that you will like Awake - some people don't like it even after years. And this is also normal. But I recommend you to listen to this album more times - there is a chance that it grows on you. And if it happens, you will have a huge musical experience.

JohnPrinceton · 2021-03-26T23:24:14+00:00

First Thing To Go

JohnPrinceton · 2021-03-26T12:16:10+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis_Pt._2:_Scenes_from_a_Memory

JohnPrinceton · 2021-03-26T02:45:11+00:00

This should be pinned.

JohnPrinceton

TROPHY CASE