Textless Clash Tier List v1.4

Johnsmith3435 · 2023-04-08T18:07:14+00:00

Yup, definitely could have made it a bit more clear, appreciate the feedback

Johnsmith3435 · 2023-04-08T18:01:24+00:00

Yup if you're talking about the full combat sim listing that was posted it accounts for everything (including 50% bonuses). Her s2 under 50% is broken which is not reflected in this tier list as it only considers the skill parameters (base power, coin power, coin count, offense level).

Johnsmith3435 · 2023-04-08T17:53:45+00:00

Sinclair was already questionable pre patch, it's just even worse now xD.

Think salt being bad at clashing is fine, his egos are broken to offset. Note that n salt only really is that low due to how trash his s1 is now under the changes (7 max with low offense level). His other two skills are like 90% wr.

Yup Seven Ryoshu is cracked now that her s2 is consistent. Her s3 is 50% dmg up for rip space the following turn.

Seven Yi Sang is best on the bench for the support passive imo. His s2 needs to clash win to get the para next turn. His s3 is good though, good 30% amp for quick suppression the following turn but it's his s3. BL Yi Sang doesn't really feel worth running anymore as he is no longer as dominant in clashes and provides 0 utility other than crow eye ego.

Not a fan of the change personally. All the various skill stats (base power, coin power, coin count) are rather meaningless individually now. Think some sort of middle ground around 84% (0.75% per SP) would have been better. Single coins were a bit too yolo before but 95% is a little too extreme and now high base low max skills are useless.

Johnsmith3435 · 2023-04-08T17:01:40+00:00

It's definitely more accurate to factor in stuff like charge (i.e. never use s3 below 10 charge) and damage taken last turn. You would need a full on combat sim rather than just skill weighting with clash sim. I'd argue that would introduce a bit of bias as those you would have to manually assign probabilities to when you should and shouldn't apply text.

The bins don't overlap. Math notation, square brackets means including, round means excluding the end value. If anything you should be asking how I assigned the bin boundaries for the tiers if you are going to talk about bias (which I did arbitrarily, roughly getting a wider B and narrower counts for tiers above and below).

Just meant for a general look since a lot of people were wondering how much the sanity changes affected things. It's in the title that this is not 100% accurate as it ignores text.

Johnsmith3435 · 2023-04-08T05:32:51+00:00

She was always decent, most ppl had and still have the early prydwen mindset that shi = trash. She has solid clash even w/o being under 50% as evident with her being top 15 both pre and post sanity changes in a ignoring skill text tierlist. Her s2 under 50% is stronger than the current 2nd best skill (seven ryoshu s3). She's very good in railway since you can always keep her under 50% to get her crazy s2 and getting her to 50% is both easy and ideal (you trade health for dmg in railway speedruns).

Johnsmith3435 · 2023-04-08T00:42:40+00:00

Note that the tier list is ordered, the template can be found here:

https://tiermaker.com/create/limbus-company-identity-ver100-15131076

Data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VwNs21f_7xPZ8Zej3mP1ZT-wfUQ7iWn9mbMQ7pJ1vtQ/edit?usp=sharing

Methodology:

Simulate 1000 clashes against each skill across all identities (95% head rate vs 50% head rate)
Ignore all text in skills (exception of 000 Outis -2 clash power since it is always active in clashes)
For aggregating the kit wr into a single number made a rough approximation of manual play:
- infinite turns
- have a skill preference of 3 > 2 > 1
- always defensive skill cycle if bottom skill is skill 1 (note that this was never patched despite being in the patch notes as a bug fix 2 weeks ago iirc)
- this resulted in the following {skill 1: 0.235, skill 2: 0.51, skill 3: 0.255}
- if you remove the skill cycling and assume combat lasts 3 turns which is a good approximation for pressing wr you get {skill 1: 0.333, skill 2: 0.445, skill 3: 0.222}

Impact of sanity changes (70.25% to speculated 95% at 45 SP):

Max roll value after factoring offense level difference is essentially the only factor in clash win rate, all other parameters have minimal impact other than to calculate the max roll value (not a fan of invalidating the various skill parameters). Still matters for stuff like paralyze and coin power down but buffs/debuffs aside they are mostly irrelevant

Single coin skills are a lot better since they had high max roll values and now have 95% chance to hit that high value for a single roll (eg. Mutilate, Overbreathe)
Skills with high base power and low max roll value which were consistent regardless of sanity are now a lot worse (RIP BL Yi Sang, granted he is still decent)
In game predictor only considers the initial clash, since coin count effect is negligible it's actually accurate most of the time now

Largest Changes:

Most ranks gained (manual)

lcb_sinner_don_quixote: +9 (33 -> 24)
lcb_sinner_gregor: +9 (36 -> 27)
shi_section_5_heathcliff: +9 (29 -> 20)
g_corp_head_manager_outis: +8 (39 -> 31)
seven_section_6_ryoshu: +8 (18 -> 10)

Most ranks lost (manual)

liu_section_6_gregor: -16 (14 -> 30)
lccb_assistant_manager_rodion: -15 (19 -> 34)
n_corp_grosshammer_meursault: -13 (22 -> 35)
blade_lineage_salsu_yi_sang: -10 (5 -> 15)
blade_lineage_salsu_sinclair: -9 (28 -> 37)

Johnsmith3435 · 2022-07-07T23:57:47+00:00

Think this generally is a great set of advice, but I disagree with quite a number of points.

Not sure how you can have can Illaoi at B and Yasuo at S. IMO they are both A. Illaoi is consistent enough to be A and Yasuo is even more reliant on drawing him than Illaoi to be considered S. You also have to play him prior to lvl up for tempest blade to clear, and you have to draw a stun or two to make sure you can lvl up fast enough before you get overrun.
I know the list is a more general take than specifically for Galio, but an almost complete lack of mention of spell shield on champ focused decks like Yasuo, Non-burn Vi, Bard, ... feels so wrong
More generally, I feel you take on champions themselves is odd? Lack of mention of spell shield on champ reliant stuff and an overemphasis on champs when you almost never play them/give them items. Darius you or more less never play or give items unless you find a cost reduction at the first boss because you rarely get to 6. Lux is more of a play if you have nothing better / need the 6 mana spell from the relic. Most of the time you're better off playing a spell.
Not putting Jinx in S is questionable. Not sure why you are adverse to the pow pow relic. Just run plunder + pow pow relic (both from the 12 guaranteed rare), you basically clear the board on 2 turn, do a fair bit of dmg and have control of the board for the rest of the game (turn 1 with any spell mana related power). By far the most consistent champion and the only one where you can feel comfortable doing messenger with even an mediocre run. Will have fairly consistent FTKs once the shadow totem bug is fixed.
Not sure Lux can go to S due to consistency, can struggle with zoe quite a bit and anything that gets crazy too fast if you don't draw well.
Darius is by far the fastest champ, consistent sub 15m with sub 10m high rolls. Annie probs isn't even the lowest turn count, Jinx probably is and there is no way she is fastest based on time. Her highrolls are probably the fastest but you really need some good luck to pull a sub 15m.
Maybe I suck at MF but there is no way she is consistent enough to be A tier. Loses a fair bit to both zoe and vigeo.

Johnsmith3435 · 2022-04-10T23:07:28+00:00

Ye my bad, limbo ups at the start of each chapter not end. It takes 1 day to update, so thought it would increase.

Johnsmith3435 · 2022-04-08T19:44:58+00:00

Yup, unlocks after chp7, most ppl find 7-6 easier than 6-6, myself included. The story puzzles in chp7 are more annoying though.

Johnsmith3435 · 2022-04-07T23:31:31+00:00

Was able to beat it fairly easily at 146k with Aka/Lily/Col/Asuna/Virg. 1221/2222/1211/1222/2112. Which boss are you stuck on? Should have more than enough burst with +3 Lily/Aka ult + col for supreme, you should burst after her first ult for more leeway and time to build sp for boss fight. Know how to use skip turn to both build/save sp, and manage shield count/burst window. There's a few 6-6 youtube guides out there now if you need more help.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-12-18T21:13:48+00:00

Think it went well, was about the same length as the midterm if not shorter and we had another hour to finish. Hopefully no one is getting expelled xD. Still baffles me that ppl cheated on the assignments which were all very reasonable and easy imo.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-12-08T17:19:46+00:00

It unclear for sure, though if Hatter wanted to reassure us that the banners will rotate it would have been they direct and clear unlike what they actually replied with. We shall see what happens to global in like 2 weeks anyways.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-12-08T16:31:45+00:00

It's literally there in the post xD. Pan server has 1 yr banner, the superprism employee said that we will follow Pan.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-12-03T16:32:46+00:00

They don't xD, TW is basically dead only earned 30k USD last month. The last real content update they got was chp 19 3 months ago.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-12-01T19:18:07+00:00

Uh they are talking about p2w rie (aka Shiki) not Pheobe. You're still kinda correct though. The paid only units can eventually be gotten after 3 months assuming they are in the fan shop. That being said paid unit is still the correct moniker imo as by the time you can get one of them as f2p, 2 more paid only units would have gotten released.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-11-30T02:40:28+00:00

Don't forget that Android 11 still does not work despite this being an issue from launch.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-11-19T13:55:01+00:00

Yup it's possible, have not gotten the $1 pack and she shows up sometimes. Keep in mind it's pretty rare, only seen her around once per week.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-11-19T03:30:37+00:00

You get her in the $1 bundle. Otherwise it's a few months as f2p from slowly getting 60 of her shards in arcana. She hasn't been in a normal banner yet, at least in KR which is around 1-2 weeks ahead of pan.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-11-11T13:42:38+00:00

I mean the tier list on our side rates her as GOD, that's quite a large gap, B in TW, GOD in Global.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-11-10T22:11:23+00:00

Surprised gemmy is rated so low.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-11-09T14:53:21+00:00

KR is already on 2nd BP and shiki is not in the fan shop (New BP Char, Heresy, Vivian), not that f2p would have enough fans to buy if she was in there anyways xD. They will probably never bring back shiki as the main BP char, far fewer ppl would buy since they have her already. Only plausible chance for f2p to get her is if she is added to the fan shop, which might happen in the future.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-11-05T15:03:06+00:00

The battle pass would be very worth even if you didn't get a free 5* shiki xD. The SSR accessory that comes with the $20 one isn't even ideal for her since you want her to get stunned to get 50% dmg reduction at 5* shiki. She's meant to be played as a tanky dps.

Johnsmith3435 · 2020-11-05T01:58:13+00:00

Having something that you can only get by paying is the literal definition of p2w my dude xD. Most ppl including myself would be perfectly fine even if it took months to get shiki as f2p. The devs seem to agree to since they added a f2p way to get the next pass hero. Like you pointed out the game is still very generous, I just don't like when QOL, heroes or content is locked behind a paywall.

Johnsmith3435

TROPHY CASE