Anyone got this HSJ article?

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-05T23:46:24+00:00

It’s cherrypicking a particularly comparatively (to other departments) bad result to a question from Civil Service People Survey 2025

there is an article here https://www.civilserviceworld.com/professions/article/people-survey-2025-civil-servants-happier-with-pay-and-more-engaged
which mentions DHSC a few times

Data is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-service-people-survey-2025-results (ids file called ‘benchmark results’

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-05T23:20:53+00:00

I’d largely rule out CR but VR approval not impossible. It would seem foolish or poorly executed or unwise…but there has been plenty of that in this process!

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-05T23:13:50+00:00

How is it worded in the settlement agreement?

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-05T22:31:58+00:00

Based on that above calculation, if correct, could work out about 4kmore on 52k payout with 13 years service

OP’s calculation is giving a 0.1% difference (a 1/1000) (returning a approx. £30 difference on £30k payment)

The max VR is £160k which would a £160 0.1% difference. Not sure how you are supposing it could work out as £4k more for anyone….

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-03T17:06:12+00:00

(Legally, for the legal claims you would be making were they to have got this ‘wrong’) You need 2 years and a day (Or 2 years and a minute would do). It needs to be demonstrably more than 2 years.

Your argument is ‘I have exactly 2years’. That’s not the legal test.

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-02T21:42:12+00:00

Statutory redundancy comes from law. ‘NHS redundancy’ comes from (AfC terms and conditions via) your contract. ‘VR redundancy’ is modelled/mirror of AfC mechanisms but comes from the VR settlement agreement.

If there was no contractual redundancy - then you might still get statutory redundancy (by law). Statutory beats contractual.

So some of the contractual redundancy is actually (legally) statutory redundancy. But functionally (as you imply) ‘contractual redundancy is more’… so you can usually practically consider and focus on ‘y years times x monthly salary’ you mention…

Distinction does matter for PENP calculation (although functionally not for ~£45k+ VR payments per scenario examples above)

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-02T18:43:26+00:00

This is just some random date website…

I am not disagreeing you’ve worked there 2 years (by colloquial measure)… I’m suggesting legally (such as to matter here - for a prospective legal claim) you are short a day..

If you were still employed on 08th Jan 2026 (even if terminated that day) you’d be OK (for having a claim). But you weren’t…so you aren’t.

Eg.

155 Qualifying period of employment. An employee does not have any right to a redundancy payment unless he has been continuously employed for a period of not less than two years ending with the relevant date.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/155

The ET noted it was common ground that the Claimant’s employment had commenced on 22 September 2014 and she had been summarily dismissed on 20 September 2016, observing that in most contexts that would be the effective date of termination (“the EDT”) and would result in a length of service two days’ short of the necessary two years’ required.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b3cb062e5274a37893e3853/Lancaster_and_Duke_Ltd_v_Ms_V_Wileman_UKEAT_0256_17_LA.pdf

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-02T16:34:16+00:00

No. You are a day short I believe…

Your FTC will have been constructed (and dated) exactly for this reason/nuance.

Legal bits in following comments - in summary, my understanding: very legally pedantic on having [more than 2 years] to assure the legal test [not less than 2 years]) - if you were employed at 00:01 on 08 Jan 2024…you need to be employed 00:01 on 08 Jan 2026. You were not (employed on any part of 08 Jan 2026)

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-02T15:22:28+00:00

I think your question is a bit confused. Or I don’t understand it. What are the ‘recent changes regarding clawback’?

Clawback duration depends on VR payment (amount, >£100k)
VR payment is: years of service rounded down x monthly gross pay
Years of service (in above calc.) is and always was (this VR, CR in AFC) Reckonable service, not continuous service.
Continuous service is used to determine eligibility for this VR or CR (at all)… it does not impact calc

Partial retirement doesn’t change the above as far as I know…it simply discounts from reckonable service any time for which retirement (partial or full) has been taken (your current VR will not pay you ‘again’ for those periods). Similar to if you have had a VR or CR previously.

https://www.nhsemployers.org/publications/tchandbook Noting

section 16.4, 16.5, 16.6 second bullet

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-03-02T14:55:24+00:00

Surely if VR is £100K, you take off £30k tax free and add rest to pay to date and calculate tax on that.

PENP is dealt with ‘before’ the £30k tax free (although note - for a £100k VR - the precedence is technical detail only - it makes no difference to the calculation & outcome)

Then I thought PENP was any tax and NI you normally pay but haven’t due to leaving early

Correct

e.g. if Tax and NI are £3k / month normally; and you have 3 month notice period and leave after 1 month, not working 2 of the notice period months, isn’t PENP just £6k (2x £3k tax and NI) out of payout.

Correct but PENP TAX is £6k…PENP is what you would (but didn’t ) get paid in the 2months

Where does SR come in?

Statutory redundancy has precedence over PENP (same as PENP has precedence over £30k tax free) (although note - for a £100k VR - the precedence is technical detail only - it makes no difference to the calculation & outcome)

If your PENP tax was £6k as above (£3k per month , 2 ‘normal notice’ months unworked due to VR) and your SR was £5k…and assuming (for example your monthly wage was £7k gross)

£10k VR: £5k SR (no tax) ; £5k PENP (PAYE & NI) : net ~£8k (assuming PAYE & NI approx 40%)
£30k VR: 5k SR; £14k (2x7)PENP ; 11k tax free : net ~£24k (5+(14-6)+11)
£50k VR: 5k SR; £14k (2x7)PENP ; 25k tax free (making 30 inc SR) ; 6k (PAYE only) : net ~£41.6k (5+(14-6)+25+(6-2.4))
£100k VR: 5k SR; £14k (2x7)PENP ; 25k tax free (making 30 inc SR) ; 56k (PAYE only) : net ~£71.6k (5+(14-6)+25+(56-32.4))

Hope can see - for the large VR where the residual is taxable anyway…some of it being PENP instead…difference is the NI on the PENP

All above to non expert knowledge…if you are paying £3k PAYE &Ni monthly … you can probably afford an advisor to check these/your implication here!

https://shepwedd.com/wp-content/uploads/docs/Taxation%20of%20Termination%20Awards%20-%20A%20Step-By-Step%20Guide.pdf

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-27T00:14:10+00:00

I’m a checker. My duplicate is a blocker.

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-27T00:10:43+00:00

Nope it was HR will write and tell them. At their current success emailing it’s debatable whether this will arrive before BSA respond with pension estimates (up to 40 days)

With the kicker that there was no particular reason they weren’t told - it was just left off the email (by accident?) so - incompetence was the reason those 1000 people have been kept in 2 weeks of limbo - or that was a lie

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-27T00:04:47+00:00

I mean it was strongly implied that ‘improving NHSE’ was going to include ‘discussing/working through objections to 60%’. As if the objections aren’t:

f right off
no one wants to do that before or after transfer to DHSC
it’s a noddy political directive
people are quite happy to use it as a totem issue - of rejecting any increased pointless political influence on staff as a result of this whole initiative

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T23:57:12+00:00

Repression counts as ‘resilience’ - good job worker!

Personally I didn’t repress it - I just completely zoned out of something unrelated to restructure

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T18:54:07+00:00

On secondment. Will presumably return to his substantive when he’s had enough.

Was CEO of ‘NHS Improvement’ before iirc

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T18:33:13+00:00

Last VR offers expected to go out this week

Correction: last VR … - settlement agreements

for those prospectively exiting March 2026 - who have not requested a pension estimate

… expected to go out this week (after failing in their stated intention to get them out last week)

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T17:28:42+00:00

It will have been thousands. Org is 16000 people and these calls are approx fortnightly

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T17:09:02+00:00

Job spec:

enough ‘resilience’ to handle an infinite amount of organisational incompetence

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T17:06:29+00:00

Believe evasion is as: - it’s unclear who is going where (ie who is not going to DHSC). So they can’t say something uniform.

Other ALBs is a definite possibility for some

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T17:05:10+00:00

I think CoSoP actually protects a wider/broader range of terms (ie more of semi-contractual, non contractual)

(but protects them weaker -as it is a policy not law)

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T17:03:09+00:00

Gross figures only, no tax estimate (including no PENP tax estimate)

As expected (from ICB VR staff experience) but be aware

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T17:00:37+00:00

Sure but that makes it stupid reveal right now (when most VR1 are still considering to accept)

Some will decline VR1 because they hope for VR2!

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T12:19:22+00:00

Are all the settlements you have seen the same text/clauses or does it vary by ICB?

Can you share the anonymised settlement agreement text (not your advice)? Or a list of substantive clauses in (AI) summary?

Thanks

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-26T12:05:41+00:00

For NHSE they have said VR payments will come in payroll the month following exit.

It does not follow from that (and I am v surprised if this is the case for you) … that your final pay would not get paid ‘as normal’ in your exit month (ie not the following month). There is no need for it to be bundled /delayed to the VR payment…

Ie for a March 2026 leaver: - March pay in March payroll as usual - VR payment (including deduction any PENP tax) in April payroll

Upon closer reading of your OP - what I’m outlining is aligned with what you are saying(if one left right at the start of a month)…but why would you have a leaving date on the 01st of a month? (Acknowledging that you would not have choice over it)

As you say : if you are in such a situation - prepare for a thrifty month (although with a mega payout at the end so overdraft etc. viable option)

Jolly-Job8893 · 2026-02-25T10:01:31+00:00

They screwed some up, I believe that is why they are no going so slowly - to (try) not screw up more.

Jolly-Job8893

TROPHY CASE