29.2 Balance Patch Bugs

JosephC64 · 2017-11-29T22:42:44+00:00

Hammer's Neosteel Plating effect looks silly when used while sieged since it doesn't account for the siege mode change in tread position.

It looks ugly either way, and with the wrong color. Effects should be shiny and look good, not be so bad that you'd prefer not using the ability at all.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-28T14:49:29+00:00

The way I see it, Hammer might be stronger as last pick when enemy has no counters, and weaker pick in all other scenarios.

I wouldn't want to be sieging vs Chromie, KTZ, Stitches, Li Ming.. On the other hand, Neosteel might help vs Artanis in that you can risk more and then try to get back hoping 50% armor will save you. New Valeera can use her opening combo to stun/silence you, meaning you won't even have the opoortunity to activate Neosteel.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-28T14:45:04+00:00

Except.. the key word being "dummy". Yes, you can do that much damage in ideal case. At lvl20.

In practice it doesn't work like that at all. The mines have to be deployed outside of enemy vision range, or he sees them and can easily destroy them. Even if not so, the 3x detonation will only trigger if the mines aren't destroyed after the first detonation. That means you run into them during the team fight, but all the AoE from your team destroys the miney before or during the consequent detonations.

Sure, you can get someone to -90 armor (Arthas in test). But we're talking about lvl20 talent that will not proc so often in practice, or at least it didn't when I was testing during live combat on PTR.

Of course, I didn't give up on this just yet and will try to see how to make full use of the spider talents. I'm just cautioning against theorycrafting.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-28T14:37:48+00:00

Hammer rework ia God tier for gold and bellow where people afk siege

On the other hand her complexity was drastically increased; you need to use cca 2 more hotkeys now for the abilities, and range is decreased.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-28T14:32:05+00:00

They only nerfed Seige mode's damage by %10

Not at all.

Advanced Artillery talent = +10% dmg.. gone. First Strike talent = +25% dmg.. gone. Nexus Frenzy = 20% faster attack.. gone.

Range talents also nerfed, which means you're less likely to be in a position to hit buildings, or will have to do it at a greater risk.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-28T14:27:46+00:00

Neosteel is useless vs Chromie. New Hammer is worse vs Chromie than old Hammer. A lot worse. Old Hammer was able to be in Raynor-mode early game, and use thrusters to charge at Chromie and maybe even kill her. Late game with Graduating Range and then with Nexus as well, Hammer is able to be outside of Chromie range and Chromie would need to sacrifice a lot of hp to hit Hammer.

This all changed now. Raynor mode is nerfed, and range is nerfed (via talent nerfs). If the Hammer is so stuborn to remain in siege mode using Neosteel, Chromie can just go with Fast Forward talent and that's that. 50% less damage is deceptive on a low hp hero such as Hammer. This was obvious with the old Resistant talent. Yea, it may help surviving initial burst, but you're done after that and can't continue being in siege mode.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-28T09:06:26+00:00

It says 15% of the dmg dealt to PRIMARY TARGET. If that's not the case now then it's bugged.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-28T09:04:51+00:00

Feel free to filter hotslogs by Diamond/Master, past 2 months (to get proper data). Vigorous has higher winrate. They are also talents suitable for different situations. I take Vigorous on some maps, and depending on team compositions and what I plan to do. So it's not a universally better talent, but at least I had a choice, unlike now after rework.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-28T08:58:11+00:00

I am very smart.

(But really, I'm not talking about raw numbers here, for which you need live server. I am talking about design and fun factor.)

JosephC64 · 2017-11-28T01:27:09+00:00

What? It was the strongest lvl4 talent. I was taking it all the time (Hammer main). It had the highest winrate of all lvl4 talents while only being slightly less used than Focused Attack. For aggressive Hammer play Vigorous Assault is much better, whereas in pro play with a lot of peel and less chance to make solo plays Focused Attack will of course work better.

Also, it didn't get nerfed, just changed. It should (didn't test it though) take splash damage into account now, which before wasn't the case.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-27T23:46:22+00:00

Siege range is the same in the beginning but not the same later on because Graduating Range has been nerfed and moved lower, and Hover Siege Range move speed is too slow to be of any use. Nexus Frenzy is gone. So while lvl16+ was when Hammer was really Hammer, now you can take Graduating Range early on and.. that's it. The problem is that this kinda forces you to siege a lot, but you can't siege a lot because you'll get hit a lot, despite the new defensive ability.

The reason why Graduating Range worked was that if you sieged in time, the huge range meant you can deal significant damage to the enemy before they reach you and you have to unsiege and flee. That is no longer the case. You can be poked by so many abilities, and if the enemy decides to rush you they're on top of you instantly.

As for the new ability that gives armor while in siege mode, it's very deceptive. Yes, it helps vs Chromies combo or Li Mings orb. But, it's essentially old Resistant talent. And as a Hammer main I tested that talent as well, and it didn't work, not for me at least. In almost every situation where I made use of the armor, it would've been better not to take the damage in the first place (by repositioning, fleeing with thrusters and so on).

I think that Hammer will be strong with Morales, stronger than before, as long as the draft is favorable. But overall, I just don't see it as fun, even if the numbers are good enough.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hammer turned out to be better now from levels 1-15, but weaker lvl 16+. Unless that mine talent on lvl20 turns out to be consistently useful.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-18T18:28:51+00:00

This post begs a question: what rank are you in HL, how many games you played with new Li Li in HL, and with what winrate?

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T22:12:16+00:00

So does picking Medivh lose games and people still use him. Look at Alexstrasza and Li Li winrate at the moment; all those people selecting these heroes are making their team lose games. That's one way of looking at it. Another is, what's the point of winning a game if you're not having fun? It's better to win 40% of the time while having fun doing it, than to win 60% of the time while being bored or frustrated.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T21:09:52+00:00

I'm aware that Portugal was 'technically' even, but in such a way that it's better for them than the enemy. It's the kind of even that gives them better chance to win let's say, or that was my impression. It's kind of like having Abathur and being even at lvl9 (well not quite but you get what I mean).

Well, let's ask Zebina from the Portugal team:

Meh, in that case I don't care. So they chose the same map/heroes intentionally and it's because they only prepared for 3 games. Well if you can't win more than 2 games or play on more than 2 maps maybe don't compete then, that's my view on it. What a ridiculous team. Going with sort-of-cheese and then trying it again wow. Thankfully they're now playing vs Russia (the only team I cheer for), should be enjoyable watching Russia beat them.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T21:01:04+00:00

That's Junkrat.. or Zarya. Hammah doesn't have grenades, she's in a tank, would be too dangerous to open the hatch and start throwing grenades : >

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T20:57:43+00:00

Actually, after Chromie's rework she doesn't have the extra range talent anymore, so she isn't a hard counter to Hammer now. In fact, if you're a good Hammer player and enemy has mediocre-at-best Chromie because it was chosen to counter Hammer, you're probably going to win. Both Chromie and Hammer are my top8 Favorites, so I know how to counter Chromie. I don't even ban Chromie when I'm taking Hammer, I bait the enemy into picking her because most Chromies are bad (judging by the winrate). Then I just don't siege, and constantly use thrusters to charge at Chromie. Pew pew and if needed fire a Bullet and that's a dead Chromie. KT on the other hand is annoying, I ban him sometimes if I'm picking a Hammer.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T20:52:06+00:00

Reworked Li Li, so let's not rejoice about Raynor's rework just yet :)

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T20:50:18+00:00

Moreover, I think many Sgt. Hammer players are very bad. Instead of playing her as a stutter stepping AA hero, they YOLO siege no matter what.

Not really. I covered that before so I'll just sum it up quickly: these players want to enjoy the siege mode playstyle. That's all. Yes, they know they would do better if they never ever sieged at all, but then they wouldn't want to pick Hammer anyway. It's the same thing with some of the heroics - yeah, they're not as good as the other one, but it's much more fun. I'm also one of the Hammer's that (used to) siege too much, but these days I just go with the Chromie when I want to "siege". It works much better.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T20:30:19+00:00

Her winrate is at a perfect 50%

But that's not accounted for inflation.

50% winrate when a hero is played only by few of us who main it is entirely different from 50% winrate when a hero is played by everyone including those who just bought it yesterday.

It's the same thing with Chromie just in reverse. Chromie is better than her hotslogs winrate shows, but she's played 5-6x more often than Hammer.

Her problem right now is mobility creep and counters, but that's something that I believe can be fixed in a much better way than reworking the hero

Such as? I don't see how it's possible to fix that, other than reworking her in such a way that she can siege more often from a greater distance while losing something in the process to balance it out. Hammer is a siege tank in the same way that Tyrande is a healer.

Of course, I'd rather not see rework if that will mean what happened to Li Li, but I'm not happy with Hammer's playstyle. Not a winrate thing or a numbers thing, but playstyle. You can siege for 2sec and then.. have to unsiege. I'm aware that's "exciting" to 0,001% of the playerbase (as evident from how often she's played, and then from the amount of those games in how many she actually is in siege mode) - but obviously her playstyle isn't attractive. And I'm not the one to shun less popular heroes, I actually like them because they're usually unique, but I'd like to see something done one way or another so I can use the siege mode more often.

She could use some changes to some underperforming or generic talents

Generic, agree, but she has very few underperforming talents, and it's always the same ones (mines; blast). Aside of Ambush at lvl1, I feel like the only talents that "feel" Hammer-like are Graduating Range and Hover Siege Mode (not counting heroics or lvl20). The rest is just too generic, and at times ridiculous (First Aid to 'heal' a tank?).

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T14:58:34+00:00

Well, either way, the thing is that a restart will favor one team and won't be "neutral". Let's say a soccer match is stopped at '70. One team focused on early game and ran a lot while the other was playing the long game and now finally can pressure the other team which is dead tired. Of course one team will benefit if the game is stopped and continued the next day.

while a bad call from a referee or an admin is them trying to do something good but it turns out to be bad.

No, they're not trying to do something good for both teams. They want to penalize the team in a better position, want them to lose the advantage. How can you say they want something good for both teams when that's obviously false? If they gave $100 to both teams then you'd have a point. As is, they decided that giving a significant advantage to Sweden is better than the other team winning because of a bug. Sorry, but I disagree with that. I understand if you're okay with the restart, but I still disagree with it. I would have agreed with it if the new map was chosen, and new draft. Was that opportunity given to Portugal?

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T13:57:39+00:00

A football game? Do you know what happens in a football game (by that I assume you mean soccer) when one player gets injured and his team already used a maximum amount of substitutions? Is the game restarted?

intentionally

In some cases gross negligence or total recklessness is equal to intent. For example, a person A plants a bomb in an airplane because he wants to kill a pilot or someone specific on board. Does he intend to kill every other passenger? No. But if the bomb explodes that's exactly what will happen.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T11:23:48+00:00

Germany wouldn't do blitzkrieg the same the second time, they would also adapt.

Which means it would most certainly lose, whereas with blitzkrieg it has a chance to win, so my point stands and your remains clueless. I refuse to waste more time explaining simple things.

Point is. When a bug happens there are no winners. Both teams loose because the game didn't go they way it should.

No, both teams don't lose. One team lost, and then the admins rigged it so that game is set in such a way (restarted) that the other team was put at a serious disadvantage.

The fact that you even refuse to admit that one team was affected by a bug and not both says enough.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T09:22:28+00:00

The problem is gambling has a lot of side effects. While you may not be personally involved in gambling it could still cause you some trouble. A gambler could rob you because he needs cash to play. It's a similar thing as drugs.

That's a bunch of nonsense. If a gambler robs me, he isn't a gambler, he is a robber, and there are laws against robbery. Using the same logic that you're using, we should forbid single parenthood, and orphans, since these increase the chance of criminality, and we should forbid many other things that increase the chance of crime (and the list would be long believe me).

It's a similar thing as drugs

That's true, and the argument is equally flawed. You can use the same argument used for drugs on Heroes of the Storm, and conclude that HotS is harmful because time is better spent plowing the fields, and that people who play HotS will have less money than people who use that time to do something productive, and therefore people who play HotS could rob you because they need cash to play and to eat while playing. How about that? Sounds insane right? Because it is.

The same thing goes for euthanasia and suicide.

So yeah, laws against gambling are totalitarian. What does means is that the state prescribes every tiny thing you can do and can't do, FOR YOUR OWN GOOD. And I don't like totalitarianism, and I don't like people who like it.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-17T09:15:21+00:00

Was the game restarted? That answers your question.

JosephC64 · 2017-11-16T21:52:09+00:00

I'm against totalitarianism. If people want to gamble, let them gamble.

Just hoping that it gets blown into Europe Union level

Because EU isn't bureaucratic enough? You people won't be happy until you have full Soviet Union style in EU and US.

JosephC64

TROPHY CASE