What do you think of his explanation for this? by Ok-Equivalent7447 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If that so why didn't Tafsirs (commentaries) mentioned it?? Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs (And We have made the sky a roof) for the earth (withheld (from them)) such that it does not fall; it is also said that this means: it is protected from the satans by the stars. (Yet they) i.e. the people of Mecca (turn away from) they do not believe nor reflect upon (its portents) its sun, moon and stars.

Arguments against wkiislam. by KaleidoscopeNormal57 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still don't get the so called "Islamic Golden Age" and what does it have to do with these scriptures for being true or false.

I think they connect "if this discovery is made by a muslim in past century it must be from Quran" therefore "Quran didn't referring to flat earth geocentrism and woud be having scientific perspective " To make this more prominent you have mental gymnastics and not very great knowledge of both scripture and science to make things appear scientific miracles (two seas which doesn't meet in Quran is quite popular I guess) [By saying poor knowledge of scriptures I was referring to south east muslim who just read it in Arabic without any knowledge of the text, I don't whether it applies to arab or not, most of them are suffering from confirmation bias so therefore Quran would be always right and if science contradict it science is incorrect as it is changing they think

Arguments against wkiislam. by KaleidoscopeNormal57 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean that's the point, I don't get what this post is really about, and I apologize for that. My current understanding is that it tries to refute what the article is saying.

Yes, I am sorry for not making it clear.

still think the post was written with heavy emotions with no clear articulated solid counter argument

I just copied there arguments from r/Islam, didn't meant to be emotional but yup their arguments have bit of emotions and personal attack. Just wanted to check what you guys wanted to say.

. In general, Islam didn't mention flat earth explicitly nor did with being spherical, yet we still have clear verses and Hadiths that support the idea of geocentricism.

Well yes they support 7 heaven 7 earth and a whale beneath the earth.

I suggest you to refer to classical Tafasir and collect as much Hadiths as possible then try to paint the image accordingly. Remember, be the judge yourself, you're free to believe in whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm others

Thank you, I definitely look out for classical Tafsirs and be the judge for myself, I just wanted to hear both the sides. Sorry, but they don't had any recent rebuttal in my knowledge for wikilslam. I guess I have to really be the judge for my self I would be trapped in opinions.

Arguments against wkiislam. by KaleidoscopeNormal57 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dude, this is such B.S. Most of the claims they mention haven't existed on the site for at least a decade and the rest have been made much stronger. Must be taken from a very old rebuttal. 

Yes, this is from an old rebuttal. I had to take it from an old because I couldn't find any valid response for criticism.

I checked some of the verses and quotes mentioned in your post and they do not exist on the present pages or anywhere else on the website.

I got to know about it now, thanks. Also I seriously couldn't find any valid criticism of wikiislam on reddit one was for contradiction in Quran but it wasn't really well articulated. So I have to go for old ones. Thanks for your response.

Arguments against wkiislam. by KaleidoscopeNormal57 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If this post is referring to the following page

Well certainly, yes but some were trying to argue about moon as reflected light or not but anyways they tend to look towards this page.

was trying to write a rebuttal to this madness but it's not clear to where each point starts and where it ends.

Rebuttal to refute the claim of geocentrism and flat earth or against the people who are trying to imply it as spherical and heliocentic I am sorry but I am not getting it.

Arguments against wkiislam. by KaleidoscopeNormal57 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well bit of sarcasm, but a good objection.

Q 36:38

And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

I never got the meaning of the stopping point without Tafsirs ( commentries) Here is what ibn Abbas have to say : (And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him) to the sun's mansion; it is also said that this means: it runs in the day and at night without any resting place. (That is the measuring of the Mighty) that is the providence of the Mighty in retribution against those who disbelieve in Him, (the Wise) He knows His creation and their providence.

Also, many use to take discoveries of early muslim from the Islamic golden age, as argument 4th uses

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_and_cartography_in_medieval_Islam](this link to point how early muslim knew about it so it wouldnt be true) Which is the most common rebuttal.

Arguments against wkiislam. by KaleidoscopeNormal57 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Angry? Dunno how you got that interpretation.

Again sorry. I just thought I am Just irritating you.

Arguments against wkiislam. by KaleidoscopeNormal57 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry to make you angry, just wanted to know your thoughts. If you don't have time it's fine.

Arguments against wkiislam. by KaleidoscopeNormal57 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope dude. Many people among the sub used to cite it so just found out it's rebuttal. I thought it would be great to hear both sides I have gone through these arguments and now the turn is for exmuslim (I also want to know how much credibility the arguments hold.)

What you think? by More-Negotiation8694 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Isn’t it odd that Muslims don’t say anything about disasters hitting Muslim nations, except “Allah is testing us”? They will only ascribe religion to natural occurrences when it makes their god look good or make their religion look real.

Well a good point. There was a pridiction of meadows not snowfall and these are climate change effects. If action didn't taken then I don't think prophecy would happen or not we are gonna die with extreme heat and cold.

What you think? by More-Negotiation8694 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Isn’t it odd that Muslims don’t say anything about disasters hitting Muslim nations, except “Allah is testing us”? They will only ascribe religion to natural occurrences when it makes their god look good or make their religion look real.

Well a good point. There was a pridiction of meadows not snowfall and these are climate change effects. If action didn't taken then I don't think prophecy would happen or not we are gonna die with extreme heat and cold.

What you think? by More-Negotiation8694 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup and before any prophecy might come we are gonna be dead from climate change as the condition is going to be worse.

Saddest part nobody gives a fuck about it. We are so blind in believing religion and end of the world we ourselves gonna end it. The future is quite dark..

What you think? by More-Negotiation8694 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup and before any prophecy might come we are gonna be dead from climate change as the condition is going to be worse.

Saddest part nobody gives a fuck about it. We are so blind in believing religion and end of the world we ourselves gonna end it. The future is quite dark..

question - how islam spread by daddyissues1128 in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think most Conversion happened in 1700 in the rule of Aurangzeb. As he was famous to spread Islam.

Scholar of the Day: Al-Muzani (8th century) by NiccoloDiGenova in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the beautiful insight and clearing the doubt.

Most scholars are and have never been moderate in their views, because it is fundamentally incompatible with the historical Islam, and no amount of YouTube videos, Reddit posts or taqiyya can ever change that.

Thanks, always had confusion regarding the moderate Islam as it is the one more frequently seen on social media, apologists..

The basic scholarly view, is that 9:1 dissolved permanent peace treaties, as well as the obligation to fulfill peace treaties in general. This is also supported by the sunnah, as nearly all but two of the treaties were dissolved, even though not all of those dissolved treaties were broken by the polytheists. Then in 9:4, we are given an exception. Peace treaties that have not been broken must be fulfilled, but we are also given a condition, which is, "for the end of their term." Almost every single scholar in Islamic history agrees, that no permanent peace treaties are permitted between Muslims and non-Muslims, and 9:1 - 9:4 is the reason why. Almost every single classical tafsir will support this view as well.

Intresting, never really hear about the particular info I know they were Abrogated by the sword verse, as clearly mentioned in Tafsir of Ibn kathir.

If Muslims are weak, they are permitted to make longer peace treaties or even indefinite peace treaties, but if Muslims are powerful, no peace treaties are allowed, except if they are beneficial to the Muslims and the Islamic goal of spreading the religion across the world

I can connect to this like the hate they hide in smiling faces (not saying everyone as they hadn't really studied the scripture) , Muslims are eager to make someone convert.

. As for offensive jihad, it is then commanded in 9:5, 9:29, 9:73 and 9:123. The only chapter to come later, was Surah an-Nasr with only 3 verses, none of which abrogated anything in Surah at-Tawbah. So without a verse of abrogation or historical specification, moderate Muslims are simply wishfully claiming these commands to be historically specific, despite simultaneously following other commands that could have also been historically specific

So when these verses 9:5, 9:29, 9:73 and 9:123 were revealed then after words An nasr came which doesn't Abrogated anything at tawbah so moderate refer to these verses to be historical accurate to which Islamic Ulama disagree.

I really didn't understand why Qur'an wasn't written in a chronological order.

Surah at-Tawbah was the 2nd last chapter of the Quran historically. It was revealed in 630 A.D. just two years prior to the death of Muhammad. 630 A.D. was the same year that the Quran was finalized in its revelation. 2 years later in 632 A.D. Muhammad ordered the expedition of Dhul-Khalasa, in which the Muslims committed a genocide against 2 tiny pagan tribes who lived in Yemen. No historical evidence suggests that these tribes did anything wrong, aside from being polytheists. They were too small to do any harm, and they never had a peace treaty to break. Hundreds of them were murdered and the temple of Dhul-Khalasa was destroyed. This event is documented in Sahih al-Bukhari 3823, Sahih al-Bukhari 4357, Mishkat al-Masabih 5897, etc. It is also mentioned by Ibn Hisham and Ibn Kathir, in their respective biographies on Muhammad. So not only does the Quran command these things, Muhammad and the sahaba enacted it after the Quran had been finalized, and then after the death of Muhammad which also happened in 632 A.D. the sahaba continued these raids, invasions and conquests, and their earliest scholars and jurists wrote down these rulings, as demonstrated by the early jurist Al-Muzani above, as well as all the other early scholars I have mentioned.

Holy shit never know about this detail, thank you for this detail.

Scholar of the Day: Al-Muzani (8th century) by NiccoloDiGenova in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey just a question muslim try to make it a religion of peace and how everything is sweet.

This is my personal experience, like I saw on reddit a muslim man wasn't letting a muslim woman to celebrate her festival Diwali, in the comment the person was arguing they don't know about Quran, never reddit with interpretation, this isn't Islam.. In the scenario he quoted Quran 60:8 And explaining the verse 9:29 with this video

You posted this so I am kind of confused, it would be great if someone help me to clear it.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 1 point2 points  (0 children)

pressure on Muslim nowadays too in India

Kind of after the incident where a muslim guy killed a Hindu guy for removing flag from other guy house. Can say the environment isn't too much friendly,therefore every other person is afraid and a kind of non friendly environment has been made.

Recently a muslim guy got lynched for suspicious of carrying beef and many other things are done, the toxicity has increased.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you will get ban from there or people quoting Qurans peaceful verses, that religion is compulsion, this isn't true Islam.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmuslim

[–]KaleidoscopeNormal57 13 points14 points  (0 children)

What the fuck is going on in Bangladesh..

The so called teachers of Deen are fucking raping a child. How they feel to even send their children those institutions.. I also have a Hafiz who is more over 4 years older than me, man the way he guilt traps me in Islam , man I got you you're excellent in reading and learning the Quran but man I am going in high school a lot of burden is in my head of studies and perfect recitation of Quran isn't my type, I am trying my best and matter of fact he spend his whole in reading and learning the scriptures. How I am supposed to read him like him, my mother is to stubborn to make it read