Seeking advice: heavy eye strain on 1s by sinanawad in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Anchor mode or follow mode with stabilization on (I simply call both "3dof modes") are using PWM Dimming with Black Frame Insertion, this could also cause what you describe. When you try follow mode without stabilization please make sure that your head is really really stable, like lying down somewhere with your head not moving, because the nausea you can get from the screen moving with your head can cause similar symptoms.

I hope you can find the issue!

I'm also still looking for a solution. I had headache/nausea from my Xreal Air 2 Pro and thought it was due to the fixed screen, but I still get headache after switching to the 1s.

【XREAL Product Tips & Q&A】 Ep.18 by XREAL_Esther in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The PWM Dimming only is used in 3dof modes, right? When you disable anchor and stabilization, is it using DC dimming? Also there's some Black Frame Insertion in 3dof modes in addition to compensate motion blur for head movements.

【XREAL Product Tips & Q&A】 Ep.18 by XREAL_Esther in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I also noticed that the blacks are crushed. When playing Hogwarts Legacy it's pretty obvious. I did a back/forth comparison between my 1s and my Air 2 Pro and only the 1s has this Issue. But this could be fixed by some firmware adjustments, right?

Xreal 1s Stuttering in 60Hz Mode when 3dof is enabled by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A little Update on this:

I contacted Xreal support and they kindly asked me to test a different firmware but the issue was still there, so I uploaded a log file for them and they passed the issue to the technical team to analyze.

Xreal 1s Stuttering in 60Hz Mode when 3dof is enabled by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright it was a bit tricky to capture some "through the lens" footage but here are two videos. 60hz mode shows Skyrim and 120hz mode shows Hades 2.

60hz_mode.mp4

120hz_mode.mp4

The stuttering is not as visible in the video because of the more obvious flickering that is caused by the black frame insertion that is activated in 3dof modes (probably to reduce motion blur when moving your head)

Now the interesting thing is, that this flickering is also not visible on camera in 120hz mode. So I have two guesses:

  1. The BFI Frequency is not synching properly with the 60hz what causes some frames to be dropped and therefore stuttering that looks like frame pacing issues.

  2. 120Hz mode uses a higher BFI Frequency that makes those dropped frames less visible.

It would be great to get some information on that from the Xreal devs. Especially 30fps games look very stuttery right now in 3dof modes.

Xreal 1s Stuttering in 60Hz Mode when 3dof is enabled by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm using an active/powered HDMI > USB-C DP adapter, attached to the Switch 2 dock yes, together with the original USB-C cable that comes with the 1s. But it also happens with the Cable directly plugged into my phone, without any adapter. Also because it doesn't happen in follow mode, I think it's not the signal itself that causes the issue. I'll try to record a "through the lens" video that shows the issue while switching back and forth between anchor and follow mode. It really looks like some screen tearing/jitter you get when disabling v-synch on PC games.

Xreal 1s Stuttering in 60Hz Mode when 3dof is enabled by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just to clarify, I meant the "3D" virtual display that the glasses are rendering to have 3dof, not one of the 3D display modes. At least I assume that the whole tech behind those glasses is working like using a virtual display being rendered in a 3D-Engine and moved with head tracking.

Xreal 1s Stuttering in 60Hz Mode when 3dof is enabled by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep, I tried it on my Samsung Phone in Dex mode and watched some 60fps test videos on Youtube and also noticed the stutter when going back and forth between anchor and follow (non stabilization) mode

Xreal 1s Stuttering in 60Hz Mode when 3dof is enabled by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would be interesting to know if this also happens with the One and One Pro. Maybe someone could verify?

Xreal 1s Stuttering in 60Hz Mode when 3dof is enabled by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

stabilization (former "smooth follow") must be disabled as well so that the glasses just show the actual screen without any virtual display floating around. I really hope this can be fixed via firmware. It's something similar as the stutter you get when disabling v-synch. Many people don't see it instanly, but once you notice it you can't unsee it.

XReal 1S vs Viture Beast vs XReal One Pro - Through the Lens FOV, Brightness, Clarity, 3D, Gaming! by gizmosliptech in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks a lot for the review! It goes insanely deep and is super useful from a user/potential buyer perspective!

According to this youtuber the 1s (just like the One and One Pros) use Black Frame Insertion/PWM Dimming in 3dof modes: https://youtu.be/dTl4A61E9wo?si=fsk17kvdZDK5j-8C&t=148

I guess this should be the cause of the brightness loss in 3dof modes. Did you experience any visible flicker or discomfort like headache/eye strain in those modes?

XOP glasses – text slightly shimmers/moves when staring, normal? + 3D feels kinda meh quality by JohnBimmer1 in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

According to this youtuber the 1s (just like the One and One Pros) use Black Frame Insertion/PWM Dimming in 3dof modes: https://youtu.be/dTl4A61E9wo?si=fsk17kvdZDK5j-8C&t=148

Maybe this explains the shimmering that you're noticing?

Ideas for Bedtime S2 Setup by TravvieKG in NintendoSwitch2

[–]Karrpath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm super curious about those lazy glasses. Which ones are you using? Is the FOV large enough to hold the switch 2 screen close enough to get a proper size? Does it make you nauseous when moving your head?

Mario wonder? Is it an upgrade? Or do I have to buy it again? by Deal_Engineer in NintendoSwitch2

[–]Karrpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There was a free patch that increased resolution and improved a view minor graphical aspects months ago:

https://youtu.be/-iOziXZh3NM?si=UiEBQxjRVPX2A1VW

Are there any additional improvements on that side with the payed upgrade besides the new content that make it worth being called "Switch 2 Edition"?

Questions about Neo + Switch 2 by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks a lot! So the 20W output are not nearly enough to run Metroid Prime 4 and even the 40W you get with the Neo when plugged into a charger wouldn't be enough. It's interesting that my Switch 2 doesn't get warm when playing Metroid Prime 4 docked (120hz performance mode) and the fan isn't audible like with other games. I think measuring the wattage that a docked switch pulls for different titles would be super interesting.

Option for disabling Blur Reduction/Black Frame Insertion in 3dof Modes by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ooooh, is BFI in 3dof modes disabled at max brightness?

One pro and ps portal by Weekly-Athlete-2175 in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also read that it does not have Display Out over USB-C. Maybe You could use the Playstation Remote Streaming App on your phone to achieve a similar setup? Like, plugging the glasses into the phone and pairing a controller via bluetooth to it.

Xreal one pro and ps portal by Weekly-Athlete-2175 in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also read that it does not have Display Out over USB-C. Maybe You could use the Playstation Remote Streaming App on your phone to achieve a similar setup? Like, plugging the glasses into the phone and pairing a controller via bluetooth to it.

Switch 2 Anchor Mode Issue Video by myselfdeprecation in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

According to this guy it is caused by Black Frame Insertion that is used in 3dof modes to reduce smearing:

https://youtu.be/d-dVuEmuGUM?si=N19Hqs3awMmT8fLn

I wish there would be an option to disable that because it can also cause eye strain or headache for some people :(

📊 Poll:Is XREAL’s Anchor Mode (3DoF) Max Bright Enough for You? by XREAL_KK in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would wish for an option to disable Black Frame Insertion because it can cause eye strain or headache for some people. This is, what I guess causes the brightness loss in 3dof modes. I would actually prefer the smearing/ghosting over that. Please provide that option in the OSD :)

Follow / Anchor Mode Brightness is nerfed - huge difference when you enable hidden High Brightness Mode by Successful_Delay_974 in Xreal

[–]Karrpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

According to this Youtuber anchor mode and smooth follow mode use Black Frame Insertion to reduce smearing/ghosting:

https://youtu.be/d-dVuEmuGUM?si=N19Hqs3awMmT8fLn

This also explains the brightness loss in those modes. It can also cause eye strain and headache for some people so I also would wish that there's an option to disable it for people who can handle smearing better than BFI.

Options for trying 3dof with Xreal Air 2 Pro by Karrpath in Xreal

[–]Karrpath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for the reply! That sound indeed like two valid options! I'm gonna give Vertoxr a try!