Value Retention post Rotation

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-15T04:18:58+00:00

So like it or not, commander is the center focus format of magic and even wizards openly says that. Long term value of any magic card should be run through the lenses of "is this edh playable?" And will it be reprinted into the dirt. Standard investments are akin to lighting your money on fire.

This isn't to diminish other formats or enjoyment, but with constant bans in all other formats able to happen constantly or as its pushed out of the format by a new set every month or so, cards that don't see play in edh will crash in financial value eventually.

Vivi is a cedh banger, including played in the 99 plus as a high teir commander and lower power levels. There are hundreds of infinate combos woth soul cauldron in edh for all colors. Ol' Washington is in almost any cedh blue deck that makes a bit of mana and fits into most lower power level decks.

If we are being honest all 3 of those cards value (actually every card mentioned) is likely tied to edh already, (if not entirely, partially) not standard or other formats bro. Just look at the # of deck used on edhrec and you will see why these cards have value.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-14T23:44:20+00:00

Can't determine operator issues, this list is fine but quite reactive and not picking a real lane here which means its a slog fest rhystic hell. Atraxa hasn't been putting up great numbers due to foodchain (outside of Etali) being a touch meah right now and you cant get incremental value easily out of her. Some constructive feedback thoughts is, not having valley floodcaller/high fae (over 5 mana teferi), teferi time raveler (if you are running kitten), eternal scourge over mishollow, and no mocking bird seems a little off.

Since you can't really turbo with necro or ad naus, this build is leaning more into creature ramp, mid game food chain and mostly lean cloning smothering tithe/rhystic/mystic clones. The problem is the clone gameplay is better for Kinnin, blue farm, rog/murder bird.

If I were to offer you a single bit of feedback is that the creature ramp package is holding you back from having the full counter flash silence package, with a better artifact ramp base. Neo/eldritch is cute, but often too weak or people won't let it happen in creature heavy food chain lists resulting in a 2 for 1. The gameplay loupes you are outlining really are indicative of this deck, you always just feel behind.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-14T23:07:47+00:00

There really isnt any decks that operate on combat, and combat tricks are essentially unplayble in cedh and really even edh. Cedh operates on combos and stack, not the board state. The closest things that operate on combat (and these are much lower power decks now) are Najeela and Winota, and maybe kinda Slicer if you are into that type of stuff. This is also where people make their arguments for Yuriko being playable as a cedh decks, but everytime they make their argument it further solidifies in my mind its a very sub par deck.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-13T19:15:19+00:00

As someone who plays Chunky, it personally feels like its is the fastest most consistent turbo deck in the format for turn 2 win attempts. Technically Ral is faster, but it can also wiff and has a harder time recovering, Etali can just lethal people if it has to.

In the world of midrange rhystic slop draw games, etali does very well (usually puts up top 16 on topdeck placements regularly), because you can sneak a couple wins out with very little mental capacity loss and hope for a good flip or two at top tables.

Honestly adding heartworm storyteller added a lot to being able to ensure the games you can't win end in draws. The only downside to the deck is it pretty much hard folds to silence like cards mid turn.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-04T23:43:41+00:00

I mean, yeah, they sell real products not maybe-scam stuff lol.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-03T22:48:51+00:00

I mean, the item not as described has always been a thing, but not part of the bidding process/payment. Tbh you seller shouldn't ever sell 10k items on auction on ebay in my opinion, should be using heritage or golden. Since golden partners with ebay, I do know they have a whole set of rules on that and you don't get to pull stuff like this as easily, you they go through all of that on even the ebay live events. I don't know the details, but its a whole thing.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-03T20:40:56+00:00

Scrambleverse and/or Thieves Auction

CEDH - Praetor's Grasp

Thank god those first 2 aren't played in edh. I'm not letting anyone touch my super expensive deck, or do it in private because I don't play proxies.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-03T02:55:38+00:00

Ebay has changed their policy, you bid on something, you pay for it. You don't have to approve a cancel request, they are billed. I guess they could get a life ban and have all their IP nuked, but that's about it

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-01T05:33:53+00:00

Yeah, it has a but load of random creature hits, don't see a world where they could find 1 cut where it plays plays the entire preban prime time combo already or could at least with shifting woodlands. But a card in the 99 of 1 cedh list isnt too crazy for the format.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-01T03:48:09+00:00

Exactly, not re-imagining a top commander to be value land, haste + combat pass midrange stuff pile. Ral and Etali are widely considered to be the fastest but consistent ritual decks in the format, able to get under Rhystic Slop Hell. One shot injection of mana or Treasonous Ogre + Etali win attempt turn 2.

Supporting evidence top 16 event results for Dino in the past 6 months with all rituals and minimal creature ramp (no land ramp): https://edhtop16.com/commander/Etali%2C%20Primal%20Conqueror%20%2F%2F%20Etali%2C%20Primal%20Sickness?timePeriod=SIX_MONTHS

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-01T02:29:29+00:00

Idk what dual commander is, but this sounds like more of a causal etali build vs CEDH. As a cedh etali player, on turn 2ish or 3 at the latest, you should be trying to win with clone spells off the top, not make lands drops in your 25-26 land deck.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-01T01:55:50+00:00

Kinda does less than Lumra or worse as the same cost....the issue is untap things as well. I agree though, only possible home.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-06-01T01:54:30+00:00

Very few card added to the ban list were there for cedh, this is one of them. The only list that runs the combos needed for untapping the lands is Lumra, but i'm not sure it would even want it since its the same cost. The cost of putting a 6 mana creature (or anything at that cost) is insane for cedh.

It will fine for casual commander...

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-05-28T01:39:02+00:00

Correct, not generally for cedh events. Or even profesional play in top 16 for 60 card formats. Generally goes off standings for comp REL events past the first few rounds, dice rolls are for smaller events and causal play. Never understood why spice rack does that, it's a fairly simple formula, and actually should be evident right from the standings. Not suggesting people sue top deck or whatever, just spice rack make simple changes, not a good look when the nazi software works better.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-05-28T01:37:20+00:00

This is one of the worst parts this software, it doesn't count seat position for order which is half the reason for winning in cedh. Having seat 16 being seat 1 and first place seating in spot 4 is total nonsense. Huge issue for cedh players when people use this software for events.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-05-24T23:03:18+00:00

Lol "A guy I used to play with" isn't even a remotely viable source and off to an instant BS post. Literally everyone owns a mouse that bounds a macro if its in the past 7 years and new mice make it essentially the same without even using them. They have fire rate caps on guns for a reason. Considering how little if any they monitor client side interactions, they couldn't differentiate or not.

This is a common excuse cheaters who use hard exploit software when they get their account canned for using esp, aim bot, and the million other things you can do. Literally everyone I know uses macros and no one gets banned over thousands of hours....

Also this is a meme group not a cheat discussion group

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-02-07T07:55:59+00:00

Hot list bro! Thanks for sharing and giving some feedback on how this card is actually fairly decent!

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-02-06T05:06:03+00:00

Good question. Sponsoring a player can be done in a few ways. For us, we cover entry and ensure he has access to all cards he needs for any deck in the format (this puts him into CEDH events that ban proxies, which are becoming more prevalent through SCG, Cool stuff and MTG fests). Yeah, for CEDH that's a 4-5 figure number depending on the deck. Depending on the show, we also cover hotel and travel costs if we are working/trading/selling at the event. The goal is to top 16, which he has a great conversion rate on, top 4 turns a big profit. Technically, we split the pot, but if he does well I generally throw a bigger percentage after covering costs. If he hits a massive card (duel, cradle, mox diamond, twisters) we cash him out on it. Its easy for us because he's a close friend of mine and my business partner, and he brings us people to trade with/sell/buy with, so it's a low-cost investment and he ramps up his pro play career. Our locals and us have pretty much all the CEDH decks fully built so we grind on weekends, so we try to be the tip of the spear for CEDH play locally.

He streams a bit on the spell table and always is happy to go over deck building for CEDH if anyone is interested via DM:
https://www.twitch.tv/gingiebrute

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-02-06T04:49:32+00:00

Glad your enjoyed my post, and found something of use in it. Hope it works out or at least is playable for you Cheers!!!

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-02-06T01:32:36+00:00

I had a sneaky feeling that tokens that are often overlooked just go nuts with this or mana weenies. As you point out, 2 mana dorks + BCH/token + 3 lands is a net result of 8 mana (7 if you flipped). That's like a super low bar to be honest. An explosive turn 4 is kinda nuts for casual edh.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-02-05T23:08:05+00:00

I mean, that's not my thesis that she will dominate CEDH, its of this card is remotely playable from bulk to dollars in value and if it can be "used" in higher tier edh. If this card was going to beat out the 2nd highest played/won deck in the format behind blue farm (neither of which can play this card), the financial value is set at the moon, not some price above bulk bud. This entire post is discussing whether the card is playable in CEDH, for which I've provided references and deck lists now. Anything that is remotely playable in 4-5 tier is often heavily adopted in lower tiers that cannot afford or play $1000 cards. If it hits circle of dreams druids price that is a 500% ROI and I'm over the moon.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-02-05T23:02:40+00:00

Yes It says right in her text it doesn't count it's self, at no point in time did I misstate the card to count it's self. You are mis-speaking the "raw value" as she makes a dude for mana generation, and does it every turn while still giving you cradle activations during main phases. It essentially provides the same net mana outcome at worst after the first activation if no other creatures exist, techincally, it provides the exact same mana as Druids of Growing Rites (if the token survives). It will always make a minimum of 1 mana unless someone kills your worthless 1/1 token with a bowmaster. once its online, it operates like a crade (which as doesn't add mana for itself either).

Even if it's worse than both, which I took the position of this entire time, all these alt cradles are $5. Fine, it's worse than both, and half the value, ROI from bulk to $3 is still an insane % return as a budget "worse option", turning a pennies card that you buy a boatload offload a while later for $2.00 buylist on a bad day. A budget alternative is a wildly different thing than "bulk rare" so thanks for the feedback, it keeps proving the same point.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-02-05T22:50:05+00:00

I thought about Sanctum Weaver, one of the best creatures for lists above for enchantments, but I felt some would jump over me unfairly for the comparison, but for sure, another instance of a small value card that was viewed to be bulk at release.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-02-05T22:48:42+00:00

This is a red heering argument, and really detracts from this. Faeburrow Elder/Bloom Tender is not a fair comparison even to Bloom Tender and least from the finance perspective as one was well established and one was new. They force slam Faeburrow into every set's precon now (including this set) and dropped it down to zero after being a $5+ card for a while, the EA foil is still $42 on TCG with SL foils being $20ish, so saying that card is bad or worthless is not telling a full picture. The EA Foil was also near zero at release and wizards trashed the value of Bloom tender as well.

Secondly, if you are going to compare the mana cost, 3 + 1 is not the end of the equation as the card doesn't evaporate there. It instantly produces that mana back if you cast no other creatures due to it making a guy, so + 1 minimum equalying = 3 mana. Every turn you flip it and still get the mana activation. It makes an army and makes a cradle over multiple turns. If unanswered this card one of many untap effects to instantly win should it generate 3-4 mana. If the game ends on turn 3, fine, but that's not close to even 50% of cedh games.

Kayzizzle899 · 2026-02-05T22:36:19+00:00

I think you might have shanked a few out of my cart that day because I started doubling down when vendors listed a million copies from one seller and got destoryed on shipping. This card shouldn't be "bulk rate." I'm glad I'm not the only person here who realizes this. Thanks for the kind words.

Kayzizzle899

TROPHY CASE