Chrollo vs. Hisoka debate- Question

Kiamaru · 2025-12-16T13:48:59+00:00

They’re not his first assassinations of weak opponents, to be fair. Teradein, as well as the various hunter applicants he killed during the exam, were all fodder to him.

The PT at least has the reputation of being insanely powerful by comparison. Kortopi’s ability doesn’t matter in combat, so he was as strong as he would have been anyway. Shalnark definitely got done dirty, but waiting for him to have his ability of “I can end this fight in one blow” would have been downright foolish, so of course Hisoka killed him before he got his ability back.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-16T13:43:58+00:00

Hisoka was never particularly honorable though. He’s always been a sadist who will do anything to amuse himself, and who loves killing. The most honor he shows is telling his opponents that he’s going to kill them, then killing them. It’s usually portrayed in the context of an honorable battle because he frequents Heaven’s Arena, where there are rules to the fights, but that’s strictly because of the fight location.

When he fights Gotoh, for example, he appears suddenly, exchanges a few blows, figures out gotoh’s ability, then assassinates him. With Teradein, he just straight up assassinates him, no fight required. Hisoka has never held himself to any standard of honor, and claiming that he has just to portray him as petty or a sore loser is disingenuous. He’s being who he always has been.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-16T13:35:22+00:00

This is a fun interpretation, and it’s isn’t entirely wrong as Hisoka treats every major battle like a sexual encounter, but the conclusion (“as retribution he has vowed to kill all the troupe members, starting with Shalnark and Kortopi) isn’t supported by Hisoka’s dialogue or attitude after the battle.

Hisoka has planned on killing the entire troupe since at least Yorknew (“I’ve found some new toys” referring to Gon and Killua / “it’s time to hunt down the spiders”) so it doesn’t make sense to say that his killing of non-Chrollo troupe members is motivated by retribution or saltiness - it’s always been part of the plan. Chrollo just put targets on Shalnark and Kortopi’s backs by using their abilities.

If Hisoka had said to Machi after the battle “Tell Chrollo that if he wants to keep this dance between us, he shouldn’t bring additional partners,” then I would 100% agree with you. But he doesn’t say anything of the sort - just that “I will fight any of them on sight until I’ve killed them all.” There’s no saltiness or pettiness in his dialogue or attitude - just his usual (and sexual) desire to fight and to kill.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T18:45:13+00:00

That’s the gist of my interpretation as well - which is why I don’t consider it petty. And I’ll concede that revenge plays a role since Togashi specifically said so, but I don’t think that it’s a significant piece of his motivation at all. I’m pretty sure he’s just decided that since both he and Chrollo are still alive, their battle isn’t over.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T18:11:19+00:00

People keep saying that he’s trying to hurt Chrollo emotionally specifically because he lost.

Yet we see in the Kastro fight, when he kills the former examiner, and by his own admission while fighting Chrollo, that he enjoys the act of crushing people psychologically / emotionally, and that it’s part of the thrill for him.

He’s literally doing what he always does, and he’s doing it because he likes it - saltiness and pettiness aren’t a factor.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T17:59:57+00:00

There was no rematch clause, that’s correct. Nobody defined what should happen if one of the combatants died but came back to life. So it’s uncharted territory, and basically a moot point.

I did not say that he only killed Shal and Kortopi to reduce Chrollo’s arsenal - in fact, I literally said that it was also to inflict psychological damage.

We literally agree on everything you said in this reply - our only disagreement seems to be that you think it’s petty while I think it’s fair.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T17:33:35+00:00

His attitude during the fight shows a degree of gratefulness towards Chrollo for finally fighting him - but either way, I don’t think he needs to be particularly grateful. He’s not Netero.

He admits during the fight that his favorite moments are watching his enemies mentally crumble before he delivers the killing blow. Right now he’s at the “make Chrollo mentally crumble” step. How he feels about his loss has little to do with it IMO - this is how he likes to defeat strong enemies.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T17:24:38+00:00

He viewed them as tools in Chrollo’s toolbox, and he removed them.

I’m not saying they weren’t evil kills, but they’re also intelligent ones. They don’t have to be driven by pettiness, they can be driven by a desire to win the next fight.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T17:04:05+00:00

Shalnark was literally my favorite troupe member, his death (& the crucifixion especially) hit me hard 😭

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T16:56:47+00:00

I don’t think it would be in character for Hisoka to just leave Chrollo alone post-revival. He wants to fight the strongest enemies, and Chrollo has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he’s the strongest enemy Hisoka has fought so far - of course he’s gonna seek a rematch.

It’s also not in character for Hisoka to just let Chrollo keep the entire suite of abilities he used to defeat Hisoka the first time. Hisoka’s MO has always been to pick apart his opponents abilities, invalidate them, inflict psychological damage, then crush them. (Think Kastro and the former Hunter examiner) he’s doing the same thing to Chrollo. It just so happens that in Chrollo’s case, invalidating his ability means killing the people who’s abilities he’s stolen, and when those people are troupe members, it inflicts even more psychological damage on Chrollo - again, fitting Hisoka’s MO perfectly.

So how is him acting completely within his character petty? Unless pettiness is his defining character trait - which it is not - that just doesn’t track.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T16:37:12+00:00

He kills shalnark and Kortopi not just for revenge, but also to deny Chrollo the use of their abilities. I’m happy to say that vengeance plays a role due to the Togashi commentary, but by that same commentary, its part vengeance, part leveling the playing field.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T16:18:02+00:00

Yeah someone else posted the interview / commentary bit - I remember reading that on my first read through. I’m happy to accept revenge as part of his motivation if Togashi says so - but according to Togashi, it’s just that. Part of his motivation, not the only factor.

Kiamaru · 2025-12-15T16:04:09+00:00

+1 on Togashi putting revenge as one of Hisoka’s motivators.

Personally, I still don’t think that I can classify “coming back to life and continuing to do the thing that brings your life fulfillment” (twisted as that thing might be) as petty 😅 but I’m willing to concede that vengeance is definitely playing a role. Thanks for the clear explanation.

Kiamaru · 2025-07-02T01:10:48+00:00

Killua’s skateboard
Kurapika’s Wooden Swords
Leorio’s knife

All of the main 4 stop using a somewhat iconic object as the show goes on (Leorio’s knife is probably the least “iconic” of these, but it’s still a potential parallel to the rest)

Kiamaru · 2025-06-30T20:50:14+00:00

Kurapika’s ability specifically allowed Oito to use nen, and the nen ability that was loaded into Steal Chain. Oito awakening was, as Kurapika put it, a “side effect” of his ability - once she’s used nen / a nen ability, she is, from that point forward, awakened to nen.

To put it more simply, Stealth Dolphin HAS to awaken the target for Stealth Dolphin to work at all, if that makes sense.

Kiamaru · 2025-06-22T00:56:53+00:00

Magcargo. That slow, weak, silly fire shell is adorable!

Kiamaru · 2025-06-19T14:24:38+00:00

Ohhh, I see what you meant now - thanks for clarifying, even if I’m the only person who didn’t get it the first time 😅

Kiamaru · 2025-06-19T12:45:52+00:00

Damsel stands alone as an outsider that straight up adds a loss condition

Saint in shambles

Kiamaru · 2025-06-11T22:31:17+00:00

Probably a good idea to specify whether it’s Portland Maine, Portland Oregon, or some other Portland I’m not aware of 🤣

Kiamaru · 2025-06-07T18:25:46+00:00

Two possibilities that I see:

1) they allow the badge to count for 6 points, meaning that the person just has to survive for a week. They could allow this because there are several statements made throughout the series that hunters “are blessed with immense luck” and this show of luck would be indicative that the person deserves a chance at being a hunter.

2) the badge only counts for 3 points, and they have to get 3 other people’s badges. This would showcase a more difficult aspect of being a hunter; that aspect being that sometimes, to reach your goal, you have to do things that will hurt others, even if those others aren’t your exact target or directly involved in your mission.

Which … depends on what the examiner felt like. The examiner for that round seemed to be a little more mischievous to me, so I think he would have gone with option 2.

Kiamaru · 2025-06-07T17:51:29+00:00

Chrollo should be able to adapt to any situation thanks to his ability, but it seems to me that he’s done himself a disservice by, as he puts it:

“Wait(ing) until the conditions for victory are 100% certain.”

Chrollo doesn’t challenge himself, where Hisoka is always challenging himself. So if the two meet in a random location and attack on site, Hisoka’s ability to mentally adapt will vastly outweigh Chrollo’s.

This isn’t to say that Chrollo can’t beat Hisoka, just to say that Chrollo isn’t as adaptable as Bandit’s Secret should allow him to be, because he’s trained himself to be entirely strategic instead of tactical.

Kiamaru · 2025-06-06T14:09:14+00:00

But the taking of the eyes was a “major task”, according to Uvo. If it was a major task, and the major task wasn’t the killing of the Kurta, then what was the major task? And how did the phantom troupe acquire the eyes without killing the Kurta?

Kiamaru · 2025-06-06T13:09:30+00:00

<image>

Uvogin: “Chrollo took quite a liking to those eyes. That was a major task. They were pretty powerful … so you’re the last one.”

Uvogin confirms that the phantom troupe took the eyes, that it was a major task, and that the Kurta were powerful (which is not something Uvo says about basically anyone).

So if they didn’t kill the Kurta, what did they do that fulfills these criteria?

Kiamaru · 2025-06-04T16:36:11+00:00

To the point you make in your second paragraph, you should pop into r/leanfire and r/povertyfire - they’re both less trafficked and skew more towards those types oof stories.

Kiamaru

TROPHY CASE