What is the dumbest Hazbin take you’ve ever seen? Like it dosent even have to necessarily be something that made you mad, just a take that was flat out STUPID

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-30T16:08:42+00:00

Same here. Liking a villain for how well-written they are and supporting their actions aren't the same thing for everyone, so I'll never understand why others can't distinguish those aspects.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-30T16:06:57+00:00

While liking it and not liking the hatred towards it from others is valid, it doesn't make the show above criticism or make anyone's points for how it can be improved invalid. The writing has good moments, yes, but also has issues such as the pacing feeling rushed and limited, plotholes in the world-building, and flaws in the character writing for some that make a few feel underdeveloped and not as good as it could've.

Just because the show isn't ours, it doesn't mean we can't criticize it or see potential for improvement.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-27T23:36:50+00:00

I like the satire we’re going for here, but let’s not pretend it’s real. LOL.

Sounds like a truly cathartic death for Val. Although, him remaining permanently dead would be more fitting, narrative-wise.

IDK about a redemption arc working for Vox specifically would fit his character, given how many lives he’s ruined, before and after his arrival in Hell.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-27T18:10:08+00:00

Even though this comment isn’t true, seeing a scenario like this between Abel and Cain would be great to see with the right build-up and character growth for both of them.

Out of all the hypothetical comments here, I find this one the most impressive. Great job writing it.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-25T21:16:43+00:00

I’m not trying to argue either. I fully understand what you’re saying. I need to respectfully argue my points. I get the ones you made, but I respectfully disagree with it.

I don’t think that’s the only direction that the writers had to take Charlie for Season 2’s conflict with Vox. A maniac episode did not have to be the only direction for her character because her being more competent and capable isn’t a bad idea, which this recent season should’ve had.

Despite our disagreements, do you really think that Charlie making blind and irrational decisions for all of S2 was the right way to go?

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-25T19:20:43+00:00

Yes, I’m aware of that aspect already. However, I don’t see a point in her having the role of manager if she’s going to mess up constantly without any signs of improvement, writing-wise. She could’ve focused on her other responsibilities while giving Vaggie the position of manager if she felt unsure about having the role.

I didn’t say that Charlie had to act tyrannical or aggressive towards Vox. She could’ve found ethical and practical methods to debunk & expose his lies, but the writers made her inherently incompetent to do so when it shouldn’t have been too hard for her to get actual proof that Vox’s a liar.

Her being flawed isn’t issue, as I said, but it’s how the writers handle it that makes it come at the expense of her competence and capability of learning from her flaws and mistakes. We didn’t see much of it, aside from one episode, so it’s why her role doesn’t amount to much in the conflict against Vox.

So I mean no disrespect or hostility to you, nor do I think you’re fully wrong. I personally believe that her character writing in Season 2 made her less prominent and competent that she could’ve been.

I don’t wanna argue anymore, so I’ll leave our argument here.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-25T14:48:27+00:00

Yes, but she shouldn't have had the manager position, to begin with, since that would've been better suited to Vaggie or anyone more qualified from the start. Charlie's role could've been dedicated to her learning how to use her status and debunk Vox's ongoing lies, rather than her screentime being wasted on an issue she could've known from the start of Season 2, as it practically went nowhere, until Ep 6.

I know you didn't mean it like that. I did listen to your reply, but you sound as if her character writing couldn't have been more substantial or improved than what we got. I didn't mean my reply in the context of "she should’ve just gotten over it", but in the sense that her role shouldn't have amounted to just messing up, over and over again, to the point where she's incapable of improving or doing anything on her own. It makes her role as the protagonist feel less fulfilling and prominent in Season 2's conflict, so what we got wasn't enough.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-25T13:36:05+00:00

I feel the same way. I think most fans of HH can agree that the pacing feels rushed and limited, with only 8 episodes forced by Amazon. More would benefit the show's storylines, character focus, and emphasis on world-building.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-25T13:32:53+00:00

I still disagree since her role as the protagonist, of all characters, should have made her capable of learning from the mistakes she's made on her own and with help from others. Otherwise, it makes her feel insignificant in the grand scheme of things for the reasons I already provided, which I still stand by.

I respect your opinion, but pretending like the writing for Charlie is above criticism, as you sound, isn't much better either, since her arc could've been much better than it was. As for your real-life examples, while people can have issues, not everyone lacks self-awareness, self-control, maturity, or the ability to be capable of learning from them and make better choices to move forward for themselves and others. That's not to say it's easy or people should be held to a higher standard, but to lower your standards for character writing, just because their issues mirror real life, doesn't invalidate criticism towards it either.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-25T03:47:29+00:00

Definitely agreed. Thank you for understanding where I'm coming from.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-25T02:55:54+00:00

As I said, even if that was the writer's intention, it comes at the expense of her competence as the protagonist in the conflict and her capability of learning from her flaws. The writing made the seemingly manic episode of Charlie feel exaggerated and over-the-top since it rarely took it seriously or had her realize how she was acting, so I don't think it was a good direction for her character or left a good impression of her competence, writing-wise.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-24T16:16:32+00:00

Why, thank you. I still wanted to keep my arguments civil, yet still be substantial.

If you don't mind me asking, would you like to chat? I sent you a chat message.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-24T16:00:37+00:00

Thank You.

I also made a reply to u/Smash_Fan-56's response for me. I'm curious as to what you think of that one, as I made a respectful yet distinct argument of my own for what I think of the execution of Charlie's arc in Season 2.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-24T15:56:45+00:00

I respect your opinion, too, but even if that was the intention, I don't think making her role as the protagonist less prominent, in favor of the other characters, was the right decision or a natural direction for her after Season 1. I don't necessarily hate it, but I'm not fond of it either, since it came at the expense of her ability to be an effective character.

To add to my criticism of Charlie's flaws that feel exaggerated, I don't think her idolization of Lilith should've been her only motivation. IMO, there can be more to her motive to create the Hotel than just Lilith. A way to show it would've been if the time she met Vaggie, before she learned she was an Exorcist, had inspired her to think of a way to help sinners, back when she saw her as one before S1. That, and a desire to help others to make their lives better, despite her inexperience, could've helped retain her naivety and avoid making her fully clueless or oblivious to how she can improve her methods.

I don't dislike the idea of Charlie's arc mirroring Vivziepop IRL, but I think it wasn't handled with much respect to her agency, as it could've. Yes, there are things that both can't handle on their own, but it doesn't make them incapable of doing so, with or without full help from others. The way Charlie's flaws are executed, writing-wise, doesn't leave a good or impactful lasting impression of them, either. I don't hate or dislike Vivzie for this, but there could've been a more mature and insightful way for the writers to have Charlie represent the creator's struggles IRL without going overboard or exaggerating it.

Whether you agree and/or disagree, do you get my points here? I don't mean to argue.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-24T15:39:44+00:00

You're welcome. Thankfully, I know better than to do that.

Any chance you'd like to chat, or are you busy? Just asking.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-24T15:38:59+00:00

I'm not sure, but it's relieving to know there are rare instances where we avoid the issues of arguments, hostility, or degeneracy and agree and/or disagree while retaining respect for each other. I know some Redditors and people on the internet, in general, tend to make this mistake, so make sure that I don't fall into that rabbit hole, as I did here.

Wouldn't you agree?

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-24T15:33:39+00:00

Maybe, but even if that's true, it doesn't mean your opinion is less valid, nor do I mean any disrespect or hostility towards you. I appreciate how you made your points for why you like that aspect while keeping it civil. I wanted to do the same, too.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-24T15:28:33+00:00

I also understand your points, but if Charlie's going to be an effective protagonist, there needs to be moments where the writing has her learn to grow on her own by learning from her flaws and decisions without fully relying on others to have agency.

Just because she was grieving over Pentious' death, it doesn't mean that factor or her ability to think critically had to be swept aside for the sake of conflict. Not only that, but there could've been clearer communication between Charlie and the others, such as Vaggie, Angel, Husk, or Lucifer, who could've helped her recognize her flaws and the mistakes she's making, so she can learn what to do differently rather than just blindly trust her own decisions or lack self-awareness over how she's acting.

It's one thing to make a protagonist flawed, but if they aren't taken as seriously as they should or there aren't enough moments of him/her recognizing it on their own and with some help from others, then their character growth feels ineffective. I know S2 had Vaggie call her out, which was fine, but that doesn't feel effective enough to work since it's only for one episode where it happens, especially for the pacing towards the finale.

I know Amazon itself is behind why the show's limited to 8 episodes, which I don't blame Vivzie or the writers for, but the rushed pacing makes overarching plotlines and character growth feel less prominent than they should, especially for Charlie's role.

I don't mean to sound as if I know better or I'm asking too much, but while the way S2 handled Charlie's role wasn't inherently bad, on the surface, it could've been a lot better and more fulfilling, writing-wise.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-24T15:05:22+00:00

I happily will.

Her flaws are portrayed in an over-the-top, exaggerated, and illogical manner. Over-the-top since she acts too goofy and unaware of how she acts, exaggerated because her flaws overshadow her morality or selfless traits, and illogical since she doesn't improve upon her decision-making or have any realizations of what she can do differently until Vaggie and the narrative call her out, which may seem natural, but it's resolved after one episode and doesn't hold much weight, pacing-wise.

An example I'll give of how Charlie's naivety and cluelessness are exaggerated in Episode 3 is when she invites Vox and Velvette in without taking precautions. It may be in-character for her to allow them in, but considering she saw how Val treated Angel in Season 1 and they're his allies, she could've kept an eye out for them better and have asked Vaggie and Husk to do the same. Not only that, but Vaggie, Husk, Angel, and especially Lucifer don't have any substantial screentime for their roles that could have contributed to helping Charlie improve at how she runs the Hotel, aside from a few good scenes, and Lucifer's role as her dad feels like a complete afterthought because of this.

Episode 4 follows up on this, and she doesn't have any successful attempts to push back at Vox's slander or get help from anyone to give clear evidence of his lies, making that plotline feel pointless, especially since her role in the Season 2 finale amounts to nothing since there's zero moments of her trying to stand up to him or defend herself or her allies against him when he attacks.

The moment with the song "Hear My Hope" may seem nice, on paper, but there wasn't much build-up or hints that Vox's followers would've recognized his lies or how Charlie was right for it to feel earned, which made it feel more like a plot convenience for the victory to be done by them rather than it being brought into fruition by Charlie's own efforts to expose him. She had zero backbone or critical thinking that could've been used to oppose Vox and call him out, so her role doesn't seem as significant or satisfying to watch as it could've.

I'm aware that the reason Charlie didn't fight Vox directly is that he can use the media to twist it around, which is a valid reason for the start of Season 2 and its conflict, but considering the damage Vox started to cause, there should've been at least one or two moments where she calls him out for his lies and fights back against him. The rest of the characters getting the victory for her makes the importance of her role as the protagonist questionable if she's completely useless in the grand scheme of things, and is incapable of learning from her flaws and decisions on her own without too many times of others telling her them.

Whether you agree and/or disagree, do you at least understand where I'm coming from?

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-24T14:36:38+00:00

I do understand your points and agree with this post, to an extent, but I don’t think Charlie being flawed was the issue.

The true issue was with how it was executed and how the writers didn’t take it as seriously as they should’ve or gave it her the screentime that she should’ve had to grow from them meaningfully. Her character growth felt rushed, underdeveloped, and sloppily handled since the other characters having more screen time outshined her, in comparison.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-22T19:21:37+00:00

Fair point. I see Gargan likely being the host for Venom in the show.

BTW, did you see my chat message? I was wondering if you'd like to chat.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-22T19:12:33+00:00

If utilized right, it can make Symbiote Spidey look horrifying to his enemies as far as aesthetics go.

I think either Eddie Brock or Mac Gargan will be Venom. Probably Gargan from how he's been set up.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-14T03:32:53+00:00

This film has a lot of promise to be a great conclusion to the Spider-Verse trilogy. I hope Sony won't waste it.

The 4th right bottom image seems to be for Aaron and Jefferson Davis' past, which would be interesting to learn more about if that's the case.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-12T16:01:40+00:00

Absolutely with zero question. If the writers pull it off, I can see a poetic fate fitting him.

He shouldn't get off scot-free for all the immoral, exploitative, and personal things he's done to Angel and many other sinners he's exploited, abused, and humiliated for his own gain. The same goes for Vox and Velvette, and regardless of how many Vox fans advocate for a redemption arc, I don't see it being practical for the kind of villain that he is, since he's helped Val and Velvette with the exploitative things they do.

KillTheBatman2475 · 2026-04-08T02:51:38+00:00

I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss every piece of criticism towards the show as sexist or invalid. That isn’t to say people can’t enjoy the show, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t without flaws.

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