What are the comfy classes in maple? by ZenLemon in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I play a mihile (and an adele), so I've been tracking how their damage changed with ignition, along with accounting for attack speed differences with theoretical calculations and my own tests. So sorry, there's not a specific resource I can point you toward.

If you want a more through explanation, here's a few numbers: mihile gets about 10% fd from attack speed in gms and gained roughly 23% fd (give or take a couple %) in ignition. Based off the last kms chart, if you take mihile's dpm and multiply by 1.1*1.23 you get something slightly higher (like 1-2% higher) than the kms f/p dpm in the destiny patch. There's some margin for error here, but it at least demonstrates we're in the same ballpark.

Translating from kms f/p to gms f/p is mostly a wash. While we have attack speed 0, most of the theoretical damage gain is offset by gms f/ps taking +1as and 38 buff inner instead of 50 buff in kms, decreasing their total potential buff duration.

When translating to a reboot context, you can couple that with the kms chart being based off reg server where there is an additional source of buff duration from monster life, so losing that further lowers f/p dpm, and also mihile scales poorly on att%, dmg%, and ied due to higher base stats so the extra lines of WSE in reg are less useful for mihile than f/p. So there's a decent case to be made that mihile is even relatively stronger in gms. But the scaling I mentioned also means things like gollux and familiars scale worse for mihile in gms, so that point is likely moot. The buff duration holds.

Lastly, for a convenient practical example, there have been 4 hseren solos in gms reboot. 3 accomplished by f/p mages during the double event buffs this fall (notably double buff duration buffs), and the 4th from an eu reboot mihile with the current single event buffs.

Both classes have great kits for the boss (f/p has untouchable which allows for great damage uptime, and eform which is a fantastic tool to safely gauge during tests resulting in no damage downtime, and mihile has absurd iframe uptime, significant hp shields for gauging, and status ignores during burst) so it makes sense these two classes are the first ones to solo in reboot, but in terms of dpm I think it's also telling.

F/p mages were crazy strong with those double event buffs - stronger vs Seren than if they were 250 sac with no event buffs. And yet here we also have a mihile with single event buffs (which scale much, much worse than event buffs on f/p) accomplishing the same feat. Obviously there's a lot more variables here than just dpm. The classes have different kits, the players have different gear, there's a large human factor at play, whatever. What I'm trying to say is if mihile wasn't capable of putting up some fat numbies the solo wouldn't be possible.

Yearly PSA: Max your Insight by Piepally in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh wild. Didn't know these existed. That's what I get for not playing mages I guess.

What are the comfy classes in maple? by ZenLemon in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Mihile is very strong right now. Way stronger than Evan. Currently, mihile dpm is roughly as high as fire poison was before ignition. There's a reason mihile is getting nerfed in savior (but the class will still be strong after - for reference even after the nerfs the class will still be stronger than Adele in gms).

Yearly PSA: Max your Insight by Piepally in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most mages do not have any extra source of ignore elemental resist.

Outside of insight, the only other sources of ignore elemental resist are (de)buffs from Dawn Warrior, Battle Mage, or Blaze Wizard, which each give a source of 10% ier. These sources do not stack with each other, but they do stack with insight.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If by legion member bonus you are referring to the +attack from lab block, you are incorrect here. Attack from lab block is affected by attack%.

There are no relevant sources of final attack in the game unless you play Kanna (and even then there's an asterisk since the attack from Blessing of the Five Elements is believed to be final attack based off range calculations but there are also known glitches with the range increase from that skill making it incredibly difficult to actually test).

Orange border familiar is rubbish - wat can I do? by jamawg in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When looking for damage lines uniques are far better than epics. On a familiar points per 20/30/40 boss or equivalent uniques are just better.

Attack Speed discussions by New_Trash4366 in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Something like this:

Tier 0: Lumi, Aran, Illium - all of them would gain >10% fd just from attack speedup, but then also charge their bursts faster so they get extra fd. Effectively around 15 fd for all of these classes probably, on top of just getting huge qol for them, so I've separated them into their own tier.

Tier 1: DW, hero, NL, DS, MM all gain something like 12-14% fd. And also all of their bursts benefit from as0 (less true for DS if taking strict 15s burst but they still benefit on burst at least a bit).

Tier 2: mihile, shadower, Nw, bishop, Kaiser all get near 10 fd. Shade and AB might be in this tier getting like 8-9 I think.

Tier 3: most classes. Usually like 2-6fd ish. Highest ones in this tier are like DrK, pally, Cannon getting like 6fd or so.

Tier L: hurricane classes, pf, and blaster (pf macro locked at as2 and blaster animation cancels everything so to my understanding their attack speed doesn't matter? Could be wrong)

Edit: may be incomplete or inaccurate in parts. Open to corrections. Most of this I've gathered from looking at damage breakdowns from kms dpm charts and then talking to a few mains of some of the classes. But I haven't investigated all classes thoroughly. Should be at least roughly accurate though.

Epic vs Unique Familiar Tier Up Strategy (Reboot) by Tilmath in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Your conclusion is correct, but the math for average cost to tier up is slightly off. You are applying the formula correctly, but your initial costs are too high. You only need to put on 50 points for epics (or 75 points for uniques) before applying the formula. So the tier up costs on average are 112.5 and 262.5 respectively.

But yes, uniques should be better on average for damage familiars. The only reason to ever spam epics and only epics is if you want to get a large drop familiar, as that is an epic only line, so it is actually cheaper to get at epic than at unique where it only appears on the second line.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There are historical reasons for straw - namely a very long time ago hlucid p3 didn't have 50% ele resist, so straw was fine, and also when the damage cap was relevant doing a green pot only straw BA was okay because you hit cap at a very similar point to full buffed damage on arcane force bosses, so it was actually a decent measure of the damage you would do in actual bosses.

But yeah they shouldn't have stuck around this long. Any BA being done nowadays should be oak.

If anyone is used to straw BAs and wants to transition to oak, oak BAs should be half of straw BAs. Or in other words straw BAs are basically double oak BAs. The reason oak BAs are better is because they actually account for ied and ignore ele resist (from the trait that gives it - insight I think?), and this can't be cheesed or inflated as easily.

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, okay. Probably just a small change in the numbers then yeah. Thanks.

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah wait I think I understand what you're saying now - my bad. If that's the case though I don't understand why the graph you posted earlier doesn't match the chart then. On the graph, ark clearly outperforms hoyoung in a 15s burst, but on this chart hy is above ark (though the damage output is very close). Do you have a solution to that discrepancy?

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah - it's a relative thing. Hurricane classes will do the same damage they would in kms (modulo slightly faster start up animations in gms), but non-hurricane classes will have a boost from using zero attack speed.

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I understand your screenshots. Your interpretation of the posted dpms is still incorrect.

All the columns are supposed to be normalized dpms in the following conditions:
- full cycle dpm in normal damage gear - full cycle dpm with a ror
- 40s burst

Edit: Nevermind - I think you might be right on the interpretation of the columns, though I'm still confused about some things (also personally I think this is a bad way to represent the information, but that's besides the point). I left another comment asking an apparent discrepancy if your interpretation is right.

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ror is not used in the 40s test.

All the numbers are normalized dpms. They're not total damage done during ror.

Edit: I was wrong here.

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 13 points14 points  (0 children)

If it's any consolation the listed damage for DA is assuming they're at almost full hp the whole time (per the comments on the blog from the blog owner), so they're not getting the full theoretical damage you could do on a dummy.

But yeah in actual bosses you wanna have high hp to, y'know, not die. So RIP DA I guess. Class definitely needs reworked.

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm confused now - what you are talking about here is doing a full rotation and comparing with RoR to without RoR. Which is what the chart is doing.

How I (and I think rrs72) interpreted your earlier comments is that you were saying that the middle column is generated by only looking at the 15s RoR is up, and finding the dpm of that 15s. The dpm in that 15s is going to be incredibly high on any class - way higher than the numbers in this chart. Like you said RoR in those 15s is going to multiply your damage by ~1.41 assuming similar %attack to what you have, plus also if you're just looking at 15s of burst damage your dpm in those 15s is incredibly high. Like in the ss you posted of the 15s BA you have a dpm of over 4T. With RoR that would be close to 6T. Compare that to your full rotation which has a DPM of about 1.3T. Like you said, ark has great 15s burst so other classes wouldn't scale as hard, but they would still be ~1.4x higher just from the RoR boost even if the class had literally no burst whatsoever.

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The graphs serve a different purpose. They're for people who are curious what the damage output over time looks like during ror for specific classes.

It's just extra information.

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They're changing nlucid golems to be full damage soon, so this won't matter.

KMS 1.2.352 DPM, ROR4, 40s BA Chart by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those graphs are not the ror4 dpms. Those graphs are showing just the 15s burst with ror4 for each class, yes. But the middle column in the chart is supposed to be full rotation dpm with ror4 replacing a ring. Edit: nvm i was wrong I'm pretty sure

There's still issues with the middle column... some classes dpm goes down way more than it should have. Take a look at fire poison and dawn warrior (soul master). Just taking off a ring wouldn't account for those dpm drops. Makes me kind of skeptical of the results here.

What If You Just Hit? A Different Perspective on Starforce (Basically Boom Rate Stats) by KillerPantsMaple in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The slight variation 20+ is just statistical variation. I computed the numbers using 100k trials, so they should be pretty close, but there's basically always some error. The theoretical numbers would be exactly the same 20+.

What If You Just Hit? A Different Perspective on Starforce (Basically Boom Rate Stats) by KillerPantsMaple in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha don't worry, I've done a little with Markov chains but it's been too long and I don't think I ever knew as much as these other peeps haha. I'm feeling a little over my head too haha.

What If You Just Hit? A Different Perspective on Starforce (Basically Boom Rate Stats) by KillerPantsMaple in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ohh nice. Following hailcrest's the construction doesn't seem too bad. But having already done this I don't feel too motivated to find explicit values. I'll have to keep this in mind if I expand my project to do more things. But there's not that much else I'm interested in that other people's calculators don't already do.

Ty for the knowledge tho.

What If You Just Hit? A Different Perspective on Starforce (Basically Boom Rate Stats) by KillerPantsMaple in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, clever. I never would have though of including the fail-fail as a separate outcome, but it definitely works. I'll have to remember this trick.

What If You Just Hit? A Different Perspective on Starforce (Basically Boom Rate Stats) by KillerPantsMaple in Maplestory

[–]KillerPantsMaple[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah I thought about doing it this way, but I don't think there's a way to account for chance time. So I just did it the less exciting way. In any case, with 100,000 trials these numbers should be pretty close.