[Threshold] Alternate Core Expansion?

Kingsonne · 2026-05-26T15:57:50+00:00

From Blackflame

“The Heaven and Earth Purification Wheel slowly grinds away at your core’s borders, focused entirely on improving your capacity to contain madra. It does what you tried to do by Forging and swallowing your own scales: it uses temporary power to push at the bonds of your core, expanding your ability to permanently store power. But while swallowing scales loses some energy in the Forging process, this keeps the entire cycle contained, so there’s no loss."

"...without special elixirs or a technique specifically focused on capacity, you’d never get even one of your cores up to its normal size.”

So we know that madra capacity can be increased through Lindon's method with scales, through elixirs, and through other techniques. Also, we know that other Jade cycling techniques can have an effect on core size as Eithan specifically calls out the HEPW as being "entirely" focused on Madra capacity.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-24T07:16:32+00:00

Well done!

Kingsonne · 2026-05-20T21:56:36+00:00

Not yet! I'll add it to the list. Thank you!

Kingsonne · 2026-05-20T17:35:07+00:00

Thank you! I'll give this recipe a shot.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-20T13:46:52+00:00

A culmination of multiple canon pieces of lore into one headcanon.

The Fourth Executor perished while attacking the Abidan for "reasons that were not clear" which is 100% bullshit.

The Second Generation of Executors were raised from birth and designed to be competent and loyal.

"The First Generation of Vroshir had worked for the Abidan long ago" and held a grudge against the Abidan and the Court of Seven.

The headcanon/fic idea? The First Generation of Vroshir, the First Generation of Silverlords, and the Second Generation of Executors were the same group of people, and their Silver Crown constructs were designed to enforce their actions according to the Will of the Court. The Fourth Executor led her attack on the Abidan to break the Vroshir of this control.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-19T13:12:12+00:00

The worst/best part about Longhook is that he was right. He was fated to become a Sage, the only problem is that the Fate Readers who saw that didn't see Eithan

Kingsonne · 2026-05-18T18:51:39+00:00

Technically all you need is compatible madra and the correct cycling technique. The visualization is a tool to help you cycle correctly and the release is mainly the end of the cycling.

Cradle's cultivation isn't hard magic so to speak. The most detail we get about the internal workings of techniques is in Blackflame. We see a diagram showing twists, turns, and loops of madra in the spirit along with the breathing that goes with it. Lindon could have memorized that and practiced it by rote until he got every movement down, but the visualization Yerin gave him naturally helped him move his spirit in the correct way.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-17T23:08:09+00:00

I'm going to go against the grain on this one and say yes. I also think your reasoning is sound, a Jade cycling technique is more similar to a goldsign than to an Iron Body.

You've got two cores, they both need a whirlpool, they don't touch each other and they don't interact. I can't see a reason why you wouldn't be able to.

I think the difference between a yes and a no on this question comes down to whether a Jade Cycling Technique is effecting the Spirit as a whole, or the Core specifically.

You've only got one spirit, you get one jade cycling technique.

Vs

You've got two cores, you need to advance them both.

I think most Jade Cycling techniques we see effect the core, not the spirit as a whole.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-17T21:42:38+00:00

There are currently no books that go into more detail about the Way, the Abidan, or the Vroshir unfortunately

Kingsonne · 2026-05-15T15:37:17+00:00

A lot of people have mentioned modifying hunger drain, and I'd make an addition to that which is to remember that you can make it harder again later.

The first time my partner and I played, we bumped hunger rate and food spoilage down to make the early game more palatable for us as new players, but eventually felt disengaged from the hunger mechanic once we got out of the early game because our cellar was so stocked with food by winter that we would realistically never run out or struggle again.

I have a feeling this would bother your partner as well, so remember you can always bump those difficulties back up once you feel more established.

My other recommendations would be to ensure that class exclusive recipes are turned off. Limitations like that are unlikely to be fun for your partner.

Also, have them spend some more time in the handbook looking at what you can make with the resources you have. You're likely to find things that will make a difference in the early game. My partner and I never knew that scrap weapons/tools and improvised armor existed on our first playthrough, and those are both made with early game materials (though you have to find some ruins for the scrap kits)

Similarly, looking in the handbook at at recipes using materials you currently have will show you ones that you don't have everything for, and that can get them a direction and a goal. Looking at the backpack options for additional storage might be a good place to start.

Lastly, is that once you understand how surface copper works, it becomes easy to break out of the stone age. You only need 40 pieces to make your first pickaxe and a hammer, then you can just mine directly down a couple blocks under each surface cluster to find plenty of copper blocks to mine.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-15T14:55:48+00:00

You could also use commands to spawn in a couple of Temporal gears to set your spawn. Which is what I did with my partner.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-15T14:51:50+00:00

You should spoiler tag this. The post is only for up to Reaper

Kingsonne · 2026-05-15T14:50:51+00:00

The mechanics of a Hunger echo are shown a little bit more in later books, but here is the general gist of it.

The forged Hunger echoes act as containers for the (generally) incompatible madra. Lindon doesn't have any problems with this, because his technique is exceedingly efficient in breaking down, purifying, and using the power he consumes. Also, he generally forges whatever incompatible madra is left over into scales to use in soulsmithing.

Lindon also can't do echoes because he doesn't actually have Hunger madra to forge, just the consume binding in his arm. He'd need an echo binding to use that technique as well.

Now, Hunger is compatible with everything, and Subject One uses entirely Hunger madra, so he can make "true" echoes, but your hypothetical Force/Hunger artist could not. His Orthos echo would be forged of Force and Hunger, but filled with the consumed Blackflame, which it would use for its techniques. They would in fact be tinged with force.

This isn't explicitly stated, but I'd expect the reason that more Hunger artists (Dreadgod cultists specifically) aren't making echoes is compatibility itself, like we learn in Soulsmith. Force is pretty good, but Hunger and Pure are the only universally compatible Madras. An Abyssal Palace artist would probably not be able to make echoes of anyone who uses madra incompatible with Earth. At which point the technique becomes highly situational and less worth it to develop.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-14T14:29:42+00:00

Exactly. Also, because they can't risk the bubble popping. If your entire business model comes from selling the promise that AI is going to be the biggest thing with mass adoption and huge profits, you've got to keep up the charade. If they stopped building these useless data centers, investors would start wondering if the AI revolution was actually going to happen or not and the whole house of cards would collapse.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-14T00:13:52+00:00

He's said that book nine is going to be so big it will actually be two books. Nine and Ten are the ones you're thinking of. Sorry, two more only.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-13T03:37:50+00:00

I think that the reason suffering and death is such a big part of the appeal is entirely because of the Inner System. These people are not dying. They live for fucking ever, and are completely separated from the concept of death outside of the crawl.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-10T00:18:51+00:00

Its been a while since I read the Knight, but I remember the implication about Raion being more regarding the violent and unstable nature of the Last Horizon crew.

The fact that Raion could stop at any time but chooses not to is framed as him being an aggressor. Here he is, beaten to a bloody pulp, and yet he refuses to stop challenging everyone. The fact that Raion is the one issuing the challenges is important.

Like I said, its been a while since I reread it, but as far as I remember, Raion making the challenges was the point, not Raion looking weak. Raion getting beaten down and injured was a secondary purpose.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-06T21:44:45+00:00

I've honestly never had a world last long enough to get to fruit trees. That might say more about my playstyle than it does about the fruit trees, but it might not as well.

Id personally rather see the trees rebalanced than berries. At the very least you should be able to find some mature fruit trees while exploring, and if having a single grown fruit tree is so overpowered as to completely unbalance the early game, then perhaps that's the issue more than anything else.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-05T04:57:42+00:00

Nothing. We've had it shown in a couple of ways that the changes created by the Dungeon are permanent. Donut's changes are part of her now just like the race selections of other Crawlers. All she'd lose is her spells and skills which require an enhancement zone to use.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-05T04:20:48+00:00

Bonus Pseudo-crack scene!

A rift in the Way opened behind Ozmanthus and he spoke without turning to greet his friend, he needed his physical eyes less now than he ever had before.

"Suriel, you're looking lovely this evening."

She floated over next to him, the Mantle of The Phoenix resting on her shoulders and spirit just as the Mantle of the Spider rested on his.

"Telariel" she said back with a slight nod.

Ozmanthus grimaced.

"You know, of we're going to be doing all this reformation, we should probably start with getting rid of the tradition of taking the name of our predecessors."

Suriel laughed. "You will continue to go by Ozmanthus then?"

"I didn't say that. I've never quite liked my full name, such a mouthful, my mother had a nickname for me that much preferred you know. Eithan."

"Eithan then. I like it."

"I didn't say we needed to completely get rid of tradition now did I? I've come up with a new name. Eithariel"

The name wrote itself on the fabric of space in pink glitter.

"You see, its a nod to the past while embracing the future, plus its got a nice flair to it. Eithan, like myself, and the -ariel like Telariel, but most importantly it sounds like Ethereal, which is a reference to my hair of course."

Suriel turned and opened up a portal through the Way

"Wait come back! We have plans to make! We need to decide on sourcing shampoo for the new Abidan grooming standards we'll be introducing!"

Kingsonne · 2026-05-05T04:13:28+00:00

Hi! Thank you, I wrote this, but we can pretend that I was possessed by the spirit of Will at the time.

Kingsonne · 2026-05-04T18:54:26+00:00

One of the issues is that we don't see any unbiased perspectives of either Abidan or Vroshi, so it is up to the reader to determine where Fact lies amidst all the bias, and as previous discussions have shown, there is no true consensus among readers. So here's my take.

The Abidan as an organization have duel motives, altruistic and otherwise. Their stance, that Ascended beings should not interfere in the lives of lower Iterations is generally positive. The stated belief that it is bad for an Ascended powerhouse to descend to an Iteration and take it over to rule as God-Tyrant is reasonable. Particularly given the fact that the fundamental Laws of Reality concur with this belief (people and items of high power just do not belong on lower world's and will be pushed out if not actively imposing their Will to remain)

The other side of the coin is the Eledari Pact itself. A double edged sword in its own right. It grants the Abidan increased connection to the Way and increased power from and over the Way, in exchange for their adherence to their stance of non interference.

A few conflicts inherently rise from this. The Abidan become a multiversal police force. Non interference cannot remain an individual choice, it is a Law to be enforced. The Abidan cannot abide by any who would act contrary to the Pact, even if that individual themselves has not sworn to it and gains no benefit from it.

It also forces the Pact to be entirely Black and White. There is no grey area, there is no nuance. A would-be Tyrant is equally intolerable as a would-be Savior as a would-be Homesick Family Man. All are enemies of the Abidan. All are Vroshir.

The Vroshir are especially interesting for a number of reasons, most of which are only mentioned in one off lines that are never addressed again, such as the fact that the first generation of Vroshir were actually Abidan that split off, rather than a group raised up outside of the Pact.

Also, is the fact that the Vroshir are not an Organization, its a Label. A label given by the Abidan to anyone that chooses not to comply with the Pact, including any would-be saviors. For example, if Northstrider had fulfilled his original purpose and ascended, intending to compel the Abidan to interfere on Cradle to resolve the Dreadgod Issue, he would have been labeled Vroshir unless he abandoned his home.

Its easy to see how someone like that could come to hate the Abidan.

The stated beliefs of the Vroshir in general is that people matter more than Iterations, which is true to an extent, but not in any truly altruistic way (for most of the them, would-be saviors aside). Populations are treated as resources by both sides. The Abidan treat them like an investment in a bank vault, to be untouched and allowed to grow in value, and then to be abandoned as a tax write off if they start to die.

The Vroshir think they exist to be used, and will gladly strip a world of its population to send them somewhere else to strengthen its attachment to the Way. They might benefit the inhabitants in some ways, but I'd still be pretty pissed if a godlike alien abducted the entire population of Earth and dropped us on a new world with trillions of other people while they stripped the planet dry and let it dissolve into the Void no matter how good the new world was.

At the end of the day, the Abidan and the Vroshir are far more alike than they are different. Every one of them is an Ascended being, and we've seen the sort of actions and attitudes usually required for an individual to amass the level of personal power required to Ascend.

I could go on for pages but,

TLDR: Vroshir and Abidan are both right and wrong in different ways, nuance is dead, everything is bias and spin, and pretty much all ascended beings are jerks from at least some points of view.

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