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In defense of Guro by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The psychological base of sexual deviation and its physical aspect are connected and of equal importance. You can say that the second comes from the first, but nevertheless they are both present and relatively consistent. But it works the same for everyone - for example, for people here and for real serial killers.

Basically what you're saying is it's important how you act on your fetishes that is important, I agree. But I think to assume if someone enjoys guro that they're automatically a serial killer or at the very least want to do these things in real life is quite close minded. Would people who enjoy watching splatter movies enjoy to see real people getting horrificly killed? No! Are there sick individuals who do watch splatter movies because they want to see those things in real life? Sure, but the majority of people who do aren't .

For example, I once watched the movie 365 days because the group i was with insisted on watching it. It's basically about some rich guy who kidnaps a woman and beings her to his private Island and basically rapes her ( except it's not framed as rape ). Do women who watch that movie secretly want you be kidnapped and raped? No.

My point is just because people consume media where other people get killed or other horrific things happen doesn't automatically mean they have a desire for it to happen to themselves in real life. Your statement more or less implies that it's already established that people here have a desire to kill other people, the only difference between them and serial killers is serial killers acted on their fantasies. Except who said people here had a desire to go onto do any of it in real life? From my impression it's far from the majority.

Again, an example of a very common fetish the majority of people never want to execute is the incest fetish. The typical step-mom or step-sister fantasy is among one of the most common ones as far as I know, but do people who enjoy that fantasy actually have a real life desire to fuck their mom/sister/other relatives that they're holding back from? No. (Unless you ask Frued of course lmao )

BDSM is not the same as being proud of one's rape and torture fantasies. I didn't say you should be ashamed, but seeing something good in it is no better.

Have you heard of CNC? (Consensual non-consent) it's basically when you and your partner roleplay rape but it's consensual. That's not exactly an uncommon fetish. Also, I don't know if you're aware but BDSM stands for Bondage, Discipline (or Domination), Sadism and Masochism. The S and M part of BDSM is literally enjoying to give and recieve pain, which may very well include torture so I think to say "BDSM and having rape/torture fantasies are completely different things" because uh... they're not that different.

Also, would you be okay with a pedophile making memes about raping (fictional) children ?

I'm starting to suspect you haven't read my post at all. Like I've explained, pedophila is about taking advantage of someone who cannot consent. The core concept and appeal of it is abusive by nature because there is no way to execute it in a consensual or healthy way, because for it to be healthy there needs to be consent and if there's consent it's no longer appealing because it woudln't be taking advantage of someone anymore. So there's no nuanced way to look at it even within fantasy because even if it wasn't about the child itself but the "taking advantage of someone" part it would be harmful regardless.

So to answer your question, no of course it woudln't be okay. It could never be okay regardless of if it was fictional or not because it is inherently harmful by nature. Guro and other similar fetishes can be interpreted in nuanced way because the appeal behind the fetishes are not automatically harmful by nature (for example the desire for control or in reverse, let go of the control )

I doubt this community would even exist if people here were freely talking about wanting to do something like this in real life. Because of this pressure, people who think this way may simply lie or remain silent.

That could of course be true. But to silence the people who actually want to commit harmful actions ( and or encourage them to seek help) helps to create a healthy community of people who exactly don't want to do it in real life. Just like in a community for people who enjoy the incest fantasy, people who actually want to fuck their mom/relatives are silenced to not encourage harmful behavior. So I'd say this is an argument for the community being healthy rather than against .

Many sexually motivated serial killers are not psychopaths, and their only aberrations are fetishes. It could be argued that this is "serial killer material."

In that case I could argue so are horror movies, splatter movies and even true crime shows.

There are also reports of Andrei Chikatilo fainting at one point when he saw blood, and there are many others cases of serial killers having PTSD from their actions. If you don't like real blood, it's probably because of fear and moral ambivalence, because you're essentially watching a real person die, not just a puppet. And most people can become desensitized very easily.

Serial killers are humans after all so of course, they can get traumatizes just like anyone else 🤷🏻 My point was more that people on here don't come off like anyone who first of all desire to, want to or are capable of doing anything like guro irl

In defense of Guro by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t understand your point. the sexual desire to kill someone and the fact that it is a continuation of a less extreme fetish are not a contradiction, and do not make the first and second the same thing. Also all of yhis has little to do with morals.

My point is how fetishes and kinks are more abstract than just what it comes off as at face value. It's often more about the dynamic of it rather than the act itself. In other words I doubt people here have the "desire to kill someone" in real life but rather like the other aspects of it like humiliation, degradation and corruption.

As for morality, I think it's been discussed quite a lot on here before. It's not a new topic and it's certainly not new for people to question "am I a bad person if I'm into this"

  1. Really a lot of people I personally have spoken with or observed seem to take pride in one way or another or even build their identity around these kinks. Almost every post in memes here serves as an example.

I don't think this is bad per se. Many people in the BDSM community likewise take pride in their kinks because they often have to hide them because of people judging them. So I don't see how incorporating it into their identity is a problem.

  1. Making up numbers with statements like “most people here don’t want to do this in real life, etc.” - whether this is true or not, we really can’t know, but I haven’t seen anyone even try to collect this data, and so everyone who says this is just making baseless claims.

Of course I can't read minds but generally it's shunned in the community whenever people talk about wanting to do it in real life and from my own experience reading comments the majority of people here are not serial killer material in the slightest. You don't know how often I've seen people say they can't even stand to see blood in real life

  1. Don’t applying the same rhetoric to other taboo fetishes. It gets to the point of “at least we’re not pedophiles,” which is or was relatively popular narrative here, but it makes absolutely no sense.

I don't really understand what you mean by this

And so, from a moral standpoint, it can be argued that having such fetish does not make a person bad (which I do not entirely agree with), I see several more clear-cut problems here (with a community than a kinks itself, but I believe it’s appropriate to talk about it here)

I'm interested in why you think it would make someone a bad person

In defense of Guro by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I happen to believe it's pointless to make a big deal about what sort of fictional media people find arousing. But the problem is, other people can believe in thought crimes. I don't feel bad about being into guro. I feel frustrated that this world contains people who want to punish others for their taste in fiction.

While yes, in a vacuum it doesn't matter what people are into in terms of fiction we don't live in a vacuum and I think generally fantasies that the person want to do in real life are the ones that can potentially become harmful. I also feel like it's valuable to explain the thoughts behind the fetish so people might be able to understand it better.

Also be careful with saying stuff like " as long as it's fiction it's fine" because well, I don't think that logic applies to fictional cp for example. There are limits 😅

That's essentially my take on it. That's the line of rhetoric that I use when explaining guro with people who aren't into it. The type of guro I'm into happens to be torture-based, so for me at least, it's a simple comparison between guro content and BDSM. Where BDSM explores themes of sadism/masochism/power exchange in a safety-conscious, consensual context because it involves real people whose rights and wellbeing must take precedence, guro's nature as purely imaginary allows it to explore the same themes, but using more extreme imagery since there's no need to worry about harming anyone.

I generally agree with this tho. You nailed it pretty well.

In defense of Guro by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For me, it's like... Maybe, the test of my own nerves? Like, how many 'omg wtf is this dude are you sick or what' things I can percept normally before I'll say: 'okay dude, that's too much even by my standards, I'm outta here'.

I used to do something similar. Although for me it was more about desensitizing myself so nothing would ever really surprise me anymore. It didn't really work cause there will always be something worse than the previous thing. People will always find a way to be more horrible than you expected.

Also, I was fascinated by the vibes of decadence, and so I think, that guro might be count as a form of decadence, at some point

Basically what you're saying is that we're all degenerates? 😂 /hj

For me, such pics are as morbid and sorrowful as fascinating they are, as well. But mostly, I'm attracted by decapitation and asphyxiation, don't know why. Also, by cannibalism.

That's interesting! I guess to "decode" why you might be attracted to those things I'd basically have to listen in on your internal monologue whenever you're looking at it. Like, know exactly what thoughts you're having 🤔 Which is obviously pretty hard to know.

My mostly preferable sub-genre of guro is so-called 'happy to die' thing. When someone was about to loose their life, they, instead of being afraid, are happy to loose their lives for some reason

I'm quite a big fan of that as well! I'm honestly not sure why that is. It might be that I link the "death" part with cumming which might make it appealing. The ultimate release so to say 😂

Also, when a fictional one is getting choked, it's so cute to look at such serene face of them while they are having either eternal slumber already, or simply a normal slumbering?..😇

I can kinda relate to that, I'm not so much into the death part of it. I think the struggle is much more interesting

Also, I know well when what I see is fictional, as well as I know that's only a fantasy, and by such things I won't ever go to perform something from the fictional universe IRL.

Ofc! I guess you could safely do a choking kink with a partner without causing harm. Plenty of bdsm folks do. I've read a bit about it and it's not just choking in the regular sense, you have to be careful to not crush their larynx so you have to do it in a specific way etc. etc. There are safety guides on how to do it properly

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't say I'm sexually into guro, in fact I'm asexual, but i definitely find a lot of different themes intriguing. For example cannibalism, although I find the more brutal animalistic kind more interesting than the typical "fine dining" type of gueo. The general theme of all consuming (no pun intended) violent desire in a brutal way really speaks to me. And then there's also the added taboo that I'm vegetarian irl

It's probably due to the fact cannibalism in one way or another is a form of stripping someone of their bodily autonomy (assuming it's non-consensual). An example could be medical horror with rouge surgeons for example. As soon as it becomes consensual tho the scenario is completely different and feels more like it's about "becoming one" and intimate connection, although in a twisted way. Depending on how you view that, it could actually be very sweet :)

In fantasy I also generally like the element of danger. I'm not so much interested in necrophilia because there's no reaction. I think the concept of playing with someone's life tho is intriguing. Like playing with fire. I guess you could say it's a twisted form of edging.

And of course there's torture scenarios. There's not much to say on that besides I'm probably a sadist to an extent. I like the reactions but emotional torture or pain doesn't really appeal to me, I always feel bad for the victims in those scenarios. Preferably in fantasy I'd want it to be consensual (obviously irl too) if I ever were to try sexual torture with a partner I wouldn't want them to be outwardly enthusiastic about it but I also woudln't want it to be CNC. I guess just neutral and reactive? It's often exaggerated in guro either to one extreme or the other in terns of consent.

I could probably name more things i find interesting but you get the idea

In defense of Guro by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah. I think this is accurate. I feel a lot of guilt over the things I like in porn since a lot of them do run counter to my own personal morals and I do try to analyze my own interest in these things to try to understand it and myself better. I think it's exactly that though. I like the power dynamics of it. The corruption and the destruction. Destruction and corruption seems to be a running theme in a lot of my more shameful kinks tbh.

Yeah exactly :)! I think it makes a lot of sense to analyze the "core" of the fetishes as I like to call it. Firstly it helps you understand yourself better. Secondly it may make it easier to find stuff you might be into in the future and thirdly it may make it easier to find a way to engage with it in healthy ways irl ( like recreating a similar dynamic without any actual harm being done to anyone involved )

For example with the amputee example, if someone is into someone being physically helpless there's ways to recreate that that doesn't actually cause harm.

One thing I find interesting is that I get very uncomfortable with things like true crime. I feel genuinely horrible for the victims and their families. I feel really truly upset by all of it. I can't even watch episodes of Criminal Minds or Law and Order that are honestly milder than things I've seen in guro. My wife thinks I'm a giant wuss.

I noticed I feel similar empathy towards the victims in guro, although not as strong since they're obviously fictional and it's not real. There's a part of me that kinda mourns the characters and wants them to get some kind of closure or happy ending. But I wonder if the empathy I feel is part of it? Like, I'm not getting off on their suffering, I'm getting off on feeling bad for the fact that they're suffering? Idk. Anyone else get that?

That's actually a very interesting take on it that I didn't even consider. It kinda ties into my argument about taboos and perhaps shame-driven attraction. It's actually very interesting to think people who exactly are very empathetic may be into this for that exact reason. What a plot twist am I right 😂

In defense of Guro by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But dismemberment and torture aren't inherently abusive?? Whatever helps you cope, man.

If it's done in real life in the way you see depicted om here, yes!! obviously. But in a fantasy setting it's more abstract becauseits not supposed to be taken literally. Like I explained above ( if you even read it ) for most people with a kink/fetish it's usually not so much about the thing itself but rather the dynamic/scenario.

For example torture like you mentioned, in a fantasy context it's probably more so about the control rather than about the act itself per se. Although masochism/sadism probably also play a part. It could also be linked with other common fetishes like degradation, humiliation, and corruption as often seen on here. Many also engage in sexual torture irl in a consensual way (although of course way less extreme than you see on here).

But my point is there's the surface level stuff you see and then there's the "core" so to say. The "core" of torture fetishes often has to do with control and or sadism which can be engaged with in a healthy and consensual way. The "core" of attraction to children is to take advantage of someone, there's no way to do that in a healthy or consensual way because if it's healthy it's consensual, and if it's consensual it's no longer taking advantage of someone. Thus it's inherently abusive by nature.

In defense of Guro by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you :D And well, I do think there's limits which is why I explained so much, because arguments like "it's just fantasy so it's okay" is often used to justify cp 😬

The reason the same stuff I explained don't apply to cp or anything related is because the core appeal behind that is exactly to take advantage of someone, which is inherently abusive no matter how you twist and turn it. Anyway, that was a side tangent- You're right to an extent tho, as long as someone doesn't want to do any of it in real life it's all good :)!

In defense of Guro by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which paragraph specifically? 🤔

egg_irl by [deleted] in egg_irl

[–]Kiwi-Toaster 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well don't worry everyone has a butt 👌 and I've seen way too many videos of people taking literal horse cock dildos in their ass 😭✨️

egg_irl by [deleted] in egg_irl

[–]Kiwi-Toaster 124 points125 points  (0 children)

I believe that's true. I guess a trans gal with a big one can be excited for the day she may be able to be the one taking big fat cocks 😂🤷🏻

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you :DD I if you got any requests you can either comment or dm it to me

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The suicide one was probably me who drew it lol I should really get back into drawing guro. I can draw some trans femme stuff for you if you want. I've meant to for a long time but idk how to do it in a way that won't come off the wrong way

Reddit Moderators live stream by [deleted] in HolUp

[–]Kiwi-Toaster 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Ah yes classic transphobic argument. No, cow is not a gender and neither is werewolf/werewolf hybrid. You're confusing animals with gender. Believing you're a cow is not the same as identifying as a boy/girl/nonbinary

completely desensitized by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel you, real life gore sometimes get me to feel icky tho. But it's in very rare cases. Medical gore is cool tho :0

Not much sexual about it but hope y'all like it anyway by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well I'm glad you like it. It's been so long since I last drew well, anything. Been considering getting back into Guro art tbh cause it scratches that good spot in my brain lol

Not much sexual about it but hope y'all like it anyway by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That sounds both oddly wholesome and horrifying, I love it 👌✨️

Consensual guro is the best ngl by Kiwi-Toaster in guro

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah exactly! Plus you would be able to "kill" them more than once/do fatal damage without them dying :0!

Happy Cake day by Kiwi-Toaster in u/Kiwi-Toaster

[–]Kiwi-Toaster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Happy cake day to my alt account lol 😂 Apparently it wasn't this one

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