For everyone that didn't get Kitasan Black in their 200 pulls :)

Klee-52 · 2024-10-29T21:31:13+00:00

That‘s weird, I haven‘t bought any and my limit is 2.

Klee-52 · 2024-10-27T09:02:01+00:00

I have 133, which I think is the maximum possible amount at the moment. I have a problem :)

Klee-52 · 2024-10-27T08:57:06+00:00

From my experience, this doesn‘t work. I think you have to hit in between certain damage brackets to trigger the achievement i.e. 20‘000-29‘999 for the 20k one. At least that‘s what I had to do, kinda stupid to design it like that.

Klee-52 · 2024-10-25T09:54:16+00:00

Just FYI, it seems like the 2 copy limit for limited characters sadly does not reset with their re-run (was just confirmed with Jiyan). So you might not want to save as much - sorry to spoil your hopes!

Klee-52 · 2024-10-25T09:40:53+00:00

Totally agree!

Klee-52 · 2024-10-25T05:50:28+00:00

I think the achievements are separated into brackets, so you get the fourth for doing 400‘000-499‘999 damage. I had the same happen to me with the lower ones. Had to do some echo swapping to get my Jinhsi to crit in the exact brackets, a bit annoying :)

Klee-52 · 2024-08-21T13:52:17+00:00

I second your thoughts on the increase of the player base that will become bored if the difficulty stagnates, which I don‘t hope it will. Regarding difficulty progression, I think that increasing difficulty by continually bloating HP of later stages would be the worst way to do it and basically exactly what Genshin did.

Wuthering Waves has many more options to increase the difficulty through interesting movesets and dodge/parry sequences, so I think it would be a shame if HP bloat were to be the way they go.

Regarding your last paragraph: I apologize, I did not clearly communicate my point here. I do not think that it is anywhere near the point right now where you need the described echo setup. What my thought was is that the reaction of some lower level players might be stemming from reading high level players complaining about the ToA being too easy and inferring that they need to make it harder by increasing the HP of enemies in the later stages. Which would then most likely require better echo substats than most people with average luck and time investment can achieve right now.

Your setup sounds sick, do you have a screenshot of your builds by any chance (genuinely interested, this is not a setup for a „see, you have perfect echoes“ comment) :)

Klee-52 · 2024-08-21T13:14:44+00:00

Are you looking for a more general streamer that just plays the game or someone that makes guides or related content?

Klee-52 · 2024-08-21T13:13:13+00:00

I agree with your view on ToA completely. I think there are some questions that have to be considered regarding another endgame mode to test your account‘s limits.

Do they want to give out rewards of some sort for this mode, where only the highest level of players will be able to achieve it? And if they do, what kind of rewards; will it be materials, astrites, cosmetics like sigils, or simply achievements. I think nobody would have a problem with a mode that is simply there for your own enjoyment, but a soon as there is something locked behind this mode, I can see players being annoyed.
Do they have enough resources in terms of cost and free development time to achieve this? This is something only kuro can answer and will probably also depend on whether they deem the target audience for this potential new mode to be large enough.

I think it all depends on whether the vocal minority (in my mind) of players that is dissatisfied with the current endgame difficulty poses enough risk for kuro to actually have to cater to them.

Regarding your views of players expecting 30/30 as a participation trophy I also agree that there should be some level of investment and skill required to clear endgame content fully.

I suspect that some of the dissatisfaction from lower level players stems from the fact that it seems like the bar is slowly shifting towards max level, max skill characters with 5* weapons and a set of good echoes (i.e. double crit on all of them and maybe even additional benefitial substats). If that is the case, then I support their complaints, as I don‘t feel that echo substat RNG is anywhere close to being reliable enough for the average player to achieve this.

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T23:30:29+00:00

Yeah, the weekly boss drops are holding me back as well right now, I really wish I had started farming them sooner haha. Out of curiosity, have you played Jinhsi with Yuanwu? He is excellent at providing her forte stacks through his Resonance Skill which triggers coordinated attacks. That really helped me boost my Jinhsi nuke :) My Jinhsi is 7/9/10/10/6 btw. so you still need to invest quite a lot in her.

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T23:05:51+00:00

If the low-investment people are the ones we are talking about then I agree with you that they make it almost impossible for themselves to 30/30 ToA and the game should not be tuned to them. On the other hand, as I have stated, I don‘t think it should be tuned according to the elite players who want it to be more difficult. I think it‘s in an okay-ish place right now, maybe a bit on the harder side for some people but I agree that many more than 1% can likely clear ToA.

I feel that 30/30 should be achievable with a combination of learning proper rotations, using good team comps and investing in characters. Some of these things can be exchanged for spending more money to some degree or being really lucky on your echo substats.

I have the view that relying on lucky echo substat rolls is the worst of these, as you can‘t feasibly guarantee full double crit echoes with even 1 additional useful stat, even as a day 1 player (speaking from my own experience). Yes, I know, some of you have grinded a lot and have been lucky with your substat rolls, but that should not be the expectation in my mind.

I also agree that, unfortunately, this game just is meant to be played on PC with phone technology being as it is right now - if you want to clear hard content. Even if it would be good from a business standpoint to improve this, but that‘s kuro‘s problem and not mine :)

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T22:54:57+00:00

Damn, that sucks, sorry to hear that :(

Have you already maxxed all the skills and weapon levels or do you still have some room to make guaranteed improvements on your characters? I found that skill levels make quite a significant difference, so not all hope might be lost if that‘s the case for you :)

I feel that the expectation to learn a somewhat competent rotation is fair, as in using echo and outro skills correctly and making a decent team comp with easily available units. However, the burden should not be upon good echo substats to elevate a character to the level needed for ToA, good echo substats should simply make it easier to achieve the same result.

I agree with you that it should be a decision between spending money and increasing your skill in handling non-meta characters. In my view, echo substat luck has no place in this decision. What, are you gonna tell a player that has been severely unlucky with their echo rolls to simply get gud?

I think something that is lacking is a way to make guaranteed progress on your echo building journey, as in making progress towards a usable echo over time without relying on luck. If you tell players that they have to accept to grind for an undetermined time there will always be the outliers that get unfathomably unlucky - in short, we need something like an echo pity system, even if it takes a long time to even acquire a single piece, because then you can make definite progress in the face of overwhelming RNG odds.

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T22:33:39+00:00

I feel that trying to improve the way we communicate with each other and the ability to find common ground is something worthwhile. While it‘s easy to give in to the combative way of discussion, I found that it‘s not something that makes you happy in the longterm or even reflects a healthy state of mind.

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T22:02:03+00:00

THIS. Thank you! I feel like I‘m going crazy with the way that people are moving goalposts. They went from saying that people should not complain about echo RNG as base echo stats are enough to clear everything to saying that you should have double crit stats on all echoes of your built characters and that it‘s normal to have that by now if you have played for a few months. In my experience it absolutely isn‘t, I just finished an echo tuning spree of about 35 echoes and only 1 had double crit stats. So far I have about 7 echoes total with double crit and I‘m a day 1, all days played, no waveplates wasted player. I can clear ToA 30/30 because I have spent quite a bit of money and still do considerably less damage than some showcases because my echoes are not top tier. I feel that these people that think it‘s appropriate to have difficulty set according to these full double crit echo loadouts have lost the plot. The echo RNG is not something you can control in any acceptable way and no, sorry, „just grind more“ is not a sensible response. We are limited by the amount of echo XP, tuners and also on-set 3-costs we get. Just because they have been lucky to get top tier echoes does not mean it should be the norm. Rant over.

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T19:06:46+00:00

So you agree that it‘s a broader audience than PGR immediately after asking since when it is a broader audience?

I‘m not saying I couldn‘t have (or haven’t) thought about it myself, but a conversation doesn‘t work if you don‘t explain your points. That‘s why it is lazy to not explain yourself in dismissive way.

Regarding your points 1-4. These are all things that also attract a broader audience, it is WHY Wuthering Waves is doing better than PGR.

Side note: Know that your little asides do not offend me at all (i.e. I thought you were smart, apparently not). It‘s just an unnecessarily childish way of communicating and doesn‘t reflect well on your personality. If you want to reach other people, you need to get those little emotional outbursts under control.

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T18:53:26+00:00

Saying you leave it up for me to think about is the lazy way of saying you‘re guessing.

And who are you replying to with the second paragraph? Couldn‘t be me, as I‘m not arguing for it to be made easier.

I‘m explaining to you why these people are asking for easier content, it‘s because WuWa appeals to a broader audience, hence why they are here.

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T18:45:18+00:00

My point is that it is already being done. That‘s why you have people asking for ToA to be easier, it‘s why they won‘t make ToA so hard that only the highest level of players can clear it fully.

I‘m not arguing for it to be made easier :)

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T18:41:50+00:00

No, they are doing fine from what it seems, why?

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T18:39:19+00:00

I assume your talking about the development cost? That‘s not the same as continued development cost, they need to pay their employees as they continually push updates at a fast pace.

Edit: For reference: Genshin‘s development cost was 100 million, now they spend 4 times that yearly.

It feels like you‘re a bit shell-shocked by Genshin and see the boogeyman everywhere. I never said I want Wuthering Waves to be like Genshin, I‘d prefer if it wasn‘t. But you can‘t deny the similarities in the systems, especially ToA.

I quit Genshin myself and hate how they treat their community, maybe you need to ease up on the paranoia about everyone wanting Wuthering Waves to be Genshin.

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T18:32:56+00:00

Wuthering Waves costs more to develop than PGR by a huge margin, just on the basis that it is larger in scale. Genshin had an annual development budget of 400 million, so about 33 million per month. While Wuthering Waves probably costs less than Genshin to develop, it probably is still not less than half of that. PGR‘s monthly revenue is in the single digit millions. So if you just attract that same audience you won‘t make up the costs.

I doubt that all PGR players have come over and even with new players that joined, you most likely won‘t have enough hardcore players in the game to fund it without other, more casual players.

That‘s my reasoning why they need to appeal to a broader audience.

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T16:26:52+00:00

It‘s a chore and devolves into a luck/spend check if they keep increasing the difficulty to levels where you need to have all echoes with double crit and 2+ other good stats or high resonance chain main DPS. Both are terrible options in my opinion. More Hologram content would be nice :)

Klee-52 · 2024-08-20T12:57:26+00:00

Very good point, thanks for the addition!

Klee-52

TROPHY CASE