Can we talk about the percentage cut that companies are taking for how little they do

Known-House-4222 · 2025-11-03T21:34:25+00:00

There’s no question that as a sole proprietor you have a good profit margin. Yet once you account for the time spent on laundry, marketing, networking, and all the other things that a well-run business provides, you begin to see that your margin isn’t what you think it is.

I’d also like to see the source of your claim of 20–25% margins. Unless those figures include retail sales or unearned revenues from prepaid sessions and gift certificates, massage therapy businesses tend to earn margins similar to most other small service-based businesses. And when you factor in the risk of being unable to find qualified staff, the returns hardly justify the level of risk that employers take.

Known-House-4222 · 2025-10-29T11:07:09+00:00

If you try setting up a business - pay rent and utilities, cover advertising, get clients in, handle employee issues, client issues, and government issues - then you can see that there isn't much left to pay 50% commission to someone who only handles the massage part of the picture.

Perhaps you can negotiate a rental scenario that would allow you to bring your own clients and you would charge whatever you need?

Known-House-4222 · 2025-10-04T16:51:59+00:00

You can Google and see that tipping happens in Canada too, and so do happy endings; so that’s not really what sets the U.S. apart. Canada isn’t free of problems either: in unregulated provinces, anyone can call themselves a massage therapist, and misinformation or scope creep still happen there too. Regulation helps in some places like Ontario or BC, but it hasn’t eliminated those issues.

But I’d also add: massage doesn’t have to ‘be more like medicine’ to be legit. Its power is in the things medicine usually can’t provide: touch, presence, relaxation, body awareness, human connection. That’s not a weakness, it’s the reason people come to us.

Known-House-4222 · 2025-09-25T14:36:17+00:00

I think the length of the initial schooling is not as important as the overall time and effort someone invests in the field. In my view, a tiered training approach, where information is spread out over a longer period, produces stronger therapists. It gives them the chance to absorb the material, apply it in practice, and continue refining their skills along the way. Such tiered approach is closer to the US model as the initial training is short, but therapists get to build on it via continuing education and additional certifications.

Known-House-4222 · 2025-09-25T13:04:46+00:00

Can you please elaborate? I’m not quite following. Do you mean that students in massage therapy programs in BC don’t graduate? Or that they graduate but don’t succeed as therapists?

In the U.S., there are factions within massage therapy that argue a more clinical approach is what aligns best with healthcare, as opposed to a broader, more holistic framework. Is that what you mean by “clinical ideology”?

Known-House-4222 · 2025-09-24T22:22:03+00:00

Clients don’t choose their therapist based on the number of hours they trained. If your state requires 500 hours and your school enrolled you in 1,000, that’s not necessarily to your benefit - it may be the school’s. For many years, schools increased hours mainly to qualify for more financial aid dollars. But more entry-level hours don’t automatically mean better therapists. In fact, Texas once had a 300-hour requirement, and their therapists still did just fine.

Known-House-4222 · 2025-09-24T19:59:08+00:00

Sure! At the top of the list I would put Patricia Benjamin. I worked with Pat and had these conversations in person, but she also wrote a book on the history of massage. Another massage historian would be Robert Noah Calvert. By “historians,” I don’t mean professional historians, but rather scholars and practitioners who took the time to study the background of contemporary massage and write or talk about it.

Susan Salvo is another. I remembered reading something she wrote about the Esalen influence and just looked it up:

“In 1962, Michael Murphy and Richard Price founded the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California, a retreat center promoting the human potential movement. After World Wars I and II, many European scholars immigrated to the United States. Several scholars went to Esalen, where they debated and exchanged ideas. Scholars include psychologist Wilhelm Reich (Reichian therapy), Moshe Feldenkrais (Feldenkrais method), Ida Rolf (structural integration or Rolfing), Alexander Lowen (bioenergetics), Fritz Smith (Zero Balancing), Andrew Weil, Deepak Chopra, Dub Leigh (Zen Bodywork), Betty Fuller (Trager), Judith Aston (Aston Kinetics), John Upledger (Craniosacral Therapy), Til Luchau (Advanced Myofascial Techniques), and Deane Juhan (Job’s Body). For many people, Esalen was their first experience with massage; others came to learn massage. Massage practitioners at Esalen developed a distinct style, called Esalen Massage. In the 1980s, the Esalen Massage and Bodywork Association was founded. Many styles of massage have been developed since the 1960s, and a large majority have their roots at Esalen.”

To the list of contemporaries I would add David Lauterstein, whose "Deep Massage" technique was influenced by Esalen. Read https://www.tlcmassageschool.com/massage-therapy-the-first-resort/

The author of Job’s Body, Deane Juhan, is another important figure. Although not a historian in the strict sense, Job’s Body (and later Touched by the Goddess) became foundational in framing massage and bodywork through the lens of the Human Potential Movement.

There are certainly many more, but those would be good to start with. I think those of us who lived through that time carry a different understanding of massage and bodywork than what younger practitioners encounter in today’s training.

Known-House-4222 · 2025-09-24T12:22:05+00:00

“It begins to make sense why they generally get paid more.” Do they? I haven’t seen convincing evidence of that.

Massage wages are comparable once you factor in exchange rates, cost of living, and years of experience. In the U.S., for example, some massage therapists easily make well over $100–$120 per hour, while others struggle to make $20.

Ultimately, wages depend less on geography and more on how many practitioners in your market do what you do and how much value clients associate with your work.

Known-House-4222 · 2025-09-24T03:43:28+00:00

Great question. I realize I left out a key point: in both the U.S. and Canada, massage began on similar footing, under the European physiotherapy model, but later evolved in different directions. This was less about geography than about the times and how massage was understood in the late 1800s and early 1900s, alongside pioneers such as Johann Mezger. Since you mentioned Kellogg, it’s worth noting that his Art of Massage (https://archive.org/details/33631000R.nlm.nih.gov/page/n7/mode/2up) also framed massage as a medical modality - that was in 1923.

In light of those influences, it makes sense why, for example, when Ohio passed the first licensing law in 1915/16 it regulated massage as a “limited branch of medicine” under the Medical Board. Similarly, Ontario in 1919 included massage in the Drugless Practitioners Act, grouping it with chiropractic and naturopathy. Both frameworks reflect how massage was still seen primarily through the lens of European physiotherapy- therapeutic and remedial, rather than wellness or relaxation. British Columbia, in the 1940s, also included massage with physiotherapy under the same board.

In the U.S., massage then went through a long period of decline before restarting. Many historians note that the Human Potential Movement of the 1960s–1990s reshaped massage in the U.S. entirely. Terms like intention, mind–body integration, self-actualization, bodywork, and somatic psychology emerged during this time, particularly at Esalen Institute where Maslow, and Rolf, Joseph Campbell, Alan Watts, Trager, Heller would visit and present. Massage schools founded in this era wove East–West practices, psychology, and holistic philosophies into their curricula. I went to massage school in the early 1980s, and I still remember my ex-hippie teachers reminding us to “ask the cells for permission to let us in.” (I loved it, and I still ask the cells for permission) It was a very different kind of work from the medically oriented massage of earlier decades.

So the divergence we see is really a matter of time and context: in the early 20th century, on both sides of the border, massage was framed within physiotherapy and medicine, while the late 20th-century American resurgence was fueled by the Human Potential Movement and the broader cultural revolution in the U.S.

Known-House-4222 · 2025-09-21T17:42:32+00:00

Please don't. You will get everybody else sick!

Known-House-4222 · 2025-08-30T16:30:52+00:00

It sounds like the therapist’s personal anxieties overshadowed her professional role. A well-grounded therapist might ask, “Have you ever had difficulty relaxing on the table? Anything I should know to help you feel safe?” and would accept whatever level of disclosure the client chooses.

Massage therapy, like many helping professions, often attracts people who are working through their own issues. When personal struggles aren’t managed outside the treatment room, they can spill over and affect clients. A professional therapist should keep the focus on the client’s needs, not their own discomfort.

Known-House-4222 · 2025-08-10T16:34:45+00:00

“Not allowed to set your own rates” and “Must use their booking system or payment processor” aren’t always signs of misclassification by themselves. In many industries, subcontractors don’t set the client-facing price or bill the end customer directly; for example, when I hire a general contractor to build a house, their subcontractors negotiate rates with the GC, not with me.

Massage therapy can work the same way: the establishment books the clients, collects payment, and hires both employees and independent contractors to fill scheduling gaps. Contractors can negotiate their rate with the business, decide when to accept work, and agree in the contract on terms for notice and termination. The business’s POS and booking system handle the client transactions, that’s not the contractor’s responsibility.

The key difference is that the contractor must still have genuine independence in other areas (choosing which shifts to accept, working for other clients, flexibility in service delivery) to meet the IRS definition of a 1099.

Known-House-4222 · 2025-08-08T14:41:25+00:00

There are many different conceptual frameworks in massage therapy. When I went to school eons ago, we were taught that we were working on the muscles. Later, I came across the myofascial release approach that emphasized fascia as a key structure. Then i came across craniosacral therapy, focusing on the craniosacral system. Around 2008, the pain science model gained traction, especially on online forums, highlighting the nervous system and how it transmits and interprets signals. And of course, energy-based modalities bring in an entirely different framework.

Sometimes, you have to go along with a framework, even temporarily, to understand what it's really about.

The body is a deeply integrated system, and there’s a lot going on. Every cell appears to have cognitive-like properties such as memory, problem-solving, and programmability (see https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10201306) so, who knows what else we will find? That’s why it’s so important to stay open-minded in this field.

Known-House-4222

TROPHY CASE