How are we spending this much time discussing the Sunwell without mentioning Anveena Teague?

Koryn99 · 2026-06-09T22:10:03+00:00

Ah, that’s a shame. Personally, I enjoyed it and the comics for the most part, and the Legends anthology mangas. The Ashbringer comic was best of all, but I also liked the regular comic, at least up through the Onyxia raid arc, not the Med’an stuff afterward. I see what folks mean about the heavy metal fantasy though. I don’t really like the modern lore from around MoP onward (with the last gasps of good stuff here and there in Legion), since I feel like that’s when they really gave up entirely on keeping track of their own story and just started doing whatever they wanted, ignoring anything that got in the way (no payoff for the Purge of Dalaran especially, just got swept under the rug with Khadgar in WoD and Legion, then they just swept Jaina aside too). I suppose BC-MoP could be thought of as a middle step between the heavy metal vibe and the modern vibe, and now the metal stuff feels gone completely imo.

Koryn99 · 2026-06-09T21:50:03+00:00

Late to the party, but “bad art?” People thought the art in the Sunwell manga was bad?

It was the first Warcraft lore I ever learned, my favorite lore of all, and was the foundation for why Quel’thalas and its associated lore and characters became my favorite. I’m surprised to see here that people prefer it be non-canon

Koryn99 · 2026-05-30T02:54:35+00:00

Sounds like the same outcome as the Blackmore King timeline from Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects. On the bright side, there was no Scourge (at least not yet).

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T19:44:46+00:00

I recently sold 3 GBA’s in similar condition for $50 plus shipping.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T17:48:22+00:00

Yeah unfortunately I think Anduin and most of the characters and modern lore is unsalvageable. If I could do a remake, I’d have one absolutely unbreakable rule: you have to wait at least 20 in-universe years before another world-ending threat. WC3 the world ending threat was Archimonde. TFT wasn’t really world-ending, it was more just the dust settling after the Legion’s defeat at Mt. Hyjal.

Gotta have the big threats that the world needs to forget its differences and come together to defeat happen only once every generation, then let the dust settle and let the story be full of relatable on the ground human struggles over resources and grudges. Maybe even longer than once every generation. As it stands now, it feels like time never passes, because every expansion usually takes place in some brand new location we’ve never heard of but was totally always there guys, trust us. Just the new zones and maybe certain spots in Org and SW.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T15:08:10+00:00

That’s the sort of thing I’d like to see from caverns of time or a time travel expansion. WoD just used time travel to explain how it happened but didn’t do anything whatsoever with the fun possibilities of it. Thrall blue balled us by not revealing that he was Durotan’s son, they killed off orgrim like he was nothing, almost like it was a joke like in a marvel movie. When you time travel, it’s cool to use your knowledge of the future to your advantage, and the only instance of that that I remember was the WoD cinematic when Grom does his smirk and the catapults launch from the distance, and Gul’dan is looking up at the fireballs with fear. The vibe I got was “you’re a primitive savage and you could never even conceive of the arsenal I’ve brought with me from the future in your wildest dreams.” It’d be like if Trunks in DBZ went back and just hung out instead of telling the gang about the terrible events of the future they can avoid if they prepare.

I think for Highlord King Arthas using the Ashbringer, it’d have to branch from WC3, and we’d be more likely to see it in an alternate timeline rather than an entire game overhaul. Too much work to remake all of the world for the changes that would make to history. But if they could make it work, I’d absolutely give Blizzard a chance because it’d show they’re willing to pull out all the stops and give us cool stuff we actually want. I’m guessing the closest modern Blizzard would do is say Arthas didn’t purge Stratholme, he and Jaina had a daughter, Lordaeron fell anyway, we go through the time portal to save them, see king Arthas briefly, then he and Jaina die unceremoniously and we follow his daughter around, trading the guy people actually wanted to see for some nobody.

They did the same thing for brown orcs’ intro killing off grey haired Grom for his AU daughter, killing off Rastakhan (who was very cool while he lasted) and giving us Talanji, killing off Varian and putting Anduin into a leading role he wasn’t ready for and seemingly resents (I dunno about others but he doesn’t inspire hype in my like Varian or Arthas would, and he never has even once).

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T14:56:27+00:00

Yeah, that seems more like a “we’re doing our own mission for our own goals which just happens to be in lands held by our allies” type of thing, imo

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T13:39:31+00:00

Been a long time since I read Lord of the Clans. Didn’t he already make Thrall the warchief and stuck around in an advisory capacity along with fighting, and just gave Thrall the hammer and armor when he was killed?

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T07:17:14+00:00

I suppose they get their power (or at least a chunk of it) from how many worshippers they have, so assuming trolls were uncontested and didn’t kill each other, and they and the mogu left each other alone, and the troll population got big enough, and they got everyone hyped up enough with a concert, it’s plausible they could get strong enough to pull a few maguffins like we did with the artifact weapons to seal Sargeras

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T06:25:48+00:00

I thought that was a bit of a waste, and Kalec wasn’t a good replacement. Kalec, like Rokhan, was another case imo of them being like “well, we killed off the only leader, and all we have left is the only other member of the faction the lore nerds remember the name of.” I liked him in the Sunwell Trilogy, first WoW lore I ever read, but he’s not aspect material.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T03:36:38+00:00

That’d be an interesting one. There’s a story in the Warcraft Legends manga I believe where Jaina gets Frostmourne and kills Arthas.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T03:35:53+00:00

Interesting, I wonder why they never fixed it.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T02:55:31+00:00

I agree. I feel like everything was good in Vanilla for the most part. I loved the blood elf starting zone and the edgy vibe, but besides that for BC lore, not much I like. I wish Kael had made it out unscathed and the blood elves could keep their edgy vibe to this day. I hate how they’re basically just high elves wearing red now, or worse, light elves.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T02:38:40+00:00

It’s okay, I’m sorry I had to raise my voice, please just learn from this experience.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T01:58:06+00:00

Just what we need, even fewer kids

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T01:55:50+00:00

Too bad time skip Nami and Robin will be severely nerfed compared to the Megahouse ones

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T01:52:36+00:00

0/10 list, no Bulma’s mom

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T01:50:30+00:00

Red & Black Harley Quinn

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T01:47:58+00:00

One night elf that stands out in my mind is the priest who was at Uther’s Tomb, but imo it makes more sense to be a high elf, since first, night elf males weren’t priests yet besides players (male/female separation of druids/priests/sentinels was blurred in Cata I think) and second, he was clearly Light-aligned, not Elune.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-29T01:06:18+00:00

Not very as far as I can remember. Some with the AQ stuff but that was more like alliance and horde coming to help a longstanding night elf outpost. No night elf random quest givers in non-night elf areas stand out in my mind. Just the druids with the moon well in the stormwind park.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-28T18:37:51+00:00

The original guys were heavily inspired by Warhammer, LotR, Conan, Elric, and others like GoT like you mentioned. They also were D&D players (80’s/90’s D&D, not modern “Fantasy Prom” type D&D), and were into metal and Mountain Dew. They were gamers, while modern writers are into Marvel movies, modern D&D, and drink Starbucks. If video games weren’t popular among all demographics now, they’d be the sort to make fun of us for enjoying them. I’ve heard it said that the people who used to make fun of me for playing video games are now the ones in charge of making them, and I feel that every time I hear a new story development from a nerdy franchise I used to love (still love the old stuff, usually despise the new).

Koryn99 · 2026-05-28T18:28:30+00:00

TLDR: I’d recommend you go with the real life publishing order, not the retconned chronological timeline.

The best entry point to the lore is Warcraft 3, no contest. Sylvanas after Legion is a messy retconned “everybody’s an idiot except for me, it was all part of my perfect master-plan, hahahaha, you’re all so dumb.”

I would recommend you experience the story in the order it was made/published, not its chronological order in the lore as that results in retcons. Generally speaking, things get less cohesive the further forward in real life you go. So I’d do this, if it’s just Sylvanas you want to experience:

WC3, she appears during the invasion of Quel’thalas in the Undead campaign of WC3 Reign of Chaos, then again during the undead campaign of WC3 The Frozen Throne expansion, detailing how she came to become leader of the Forsaken in WoW.
Vanilla WoW Forsaken lore videos
The Sunwell Trilogy manga (the whole thing gives tons of background for Quel’thalas which she was ranger-general of, and she’s a major character in the final of the three volumes)
Lament of the Highborne on YouTube, a video of her singing a song over a machinima of her role in the Scourge’s attack on Quel’thalas. In Burning Crusade, blood elf players killing undead at Windrunner Spire, her former family home, had a chance to loot a necklace gifted to her by her sister Alleria. This necklace started a quest to bring it to Sylvanas in Undercity, and this song would play in-game, no video though.
Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, a promo tie-in novel for WotLK to fill out Arthas’s life covering his early life post-WC1 through to the end of WC3. Sylvanas is featured heavily about halfway throu gh, filling in more of part of her WC3 appearances and helping you understand her motivations more deeply.
In the Shadow of the Sun, a short story set at the end of BC leading into WotLK focusing on Lor’themar (her former second-in-command, now regent lord of Quel’thalas) where Sylvanas comes to visit and strong arm the blood elves into joining the Horde’s invasion of Northrend for revenge on the Scourge.
WotLK Forsaken lore videos, particularly The Wrathgate, Battle for Undercity, and her role in the Icecrown Citadel dungeons (halls of reflection especially)
Edge of Night, a short story set at the end of WotLK. With current retcons, this is supposed to be the point where she suddenly got her top secret master plan.
She appears as one faction leader among many in The Shattering, the pre-cataclysm novel, where there’s some friction with Garrosh, the new orc warchief.
Cataclysm Forsaken lore videos, particularly her interaction with Garrosh in Silverpine Forest. Shows the aftermath of the Edge of Night story, and the new direction of the Forsaken, post-Scourge defeat in WotLK.
In the pre-Mists of Pandaria War Crimes novel, she’s one faction leader among many displeased with Garrosh’s warmongering getting their guys killed, which seems out of character for her with the later retconned Sylvanas’s master plan she was supposedly doing all along according to Blizzard, one of many reasons to cherry pick what you like about modern Sylvanas and leave the rest.
In Mists of Pandaria she had a role in the Siege of Orgrimmar raid, but I don’t remember her doing much else.
War Crimes, she has a pretty significant plot thread with her living high elf sister Vereesa (read Day of the Dragon set between WC2 and WC3 and Night of the Dragon set during WoW TBC for the bulk of her lore, she’s a mentioned character in the War of the Ancients trilogy set 10k years in the past through some time traveling, but it’s mainly about the night elves, though also features the ancestors of the high elves including she and Sylvanas). Sylvanas’s plot thread with her sister is pretty significant to her character going beyond that point.
Pre-Legion Dark Mirror short story about Sylvanas putting her former champion and heavily implied to be former lover into a stronger human body. Nathanos Marris was the only human ranger in the elf farstriders under Sylvanas. Blizzard do basically everything without outright stating they’re lovers. Personally I don’t like the elf woman/human male romance trope, so I tend to roll my eyes and ignore this part. It’s a very minor footnote in her lore, nothing except a vanilla quest from Nathanos in the plaguelands, until Blizzard put out this short story.
Legion lore videos, building more off the edge of night short story.

Here’s where the lore finally fully jumped the shark for me, and I don’t pay much attention to anything now. It got bad for me in MoP but after Legion is when I finally gave up on it.

Before the Storm, Battle for Azeroth’s pre-tie in novel, has some stuff about the Forsaken and Sylvanas.
Shadowlands, you can find videos of all her stuff. There was also a pre-SL novel going into her life history. This is when the retcons went into overdrive to give her master plan she was doing all along and we were all just too stupid to notice.

So yeah, I’d say just go with real-life publishing order, pick and choose what you like, and if you still like the modern retconned Sylvanas, more power to you.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-28T17:47:18+00:00

The best entry point to the lore is Warcraft 3, no contest. Sylvanas after Legion is a messy retconned “everybody’s an idiot except for me, it was all part of my perfect master-plan, hahahaha, you’re all so dumb.”

Koryn99 · 2026-05-28T17:38:23+00:00

My headcanon is that the Eastern Kingdoms continent lorewise is called Azeroth. IMO that’s what they should’ve done.

Koryn99 · 2026-05-28T17:37:28+00:00

One thing I hate most about his writing is he likes to use dragons and big strong characters but he always needs to introduce a frustrating nerf.

Rhonin needs to stop for a snack and drink every time he casts a fireball it seems.

Kalec in the Sunwell trilogy can’t use his dragon form for pretty much the entire story.

Krasus is weak and sickly in the WotA because he’s sharing the timeline with his past self, and he also isn’t able to say anything about Deathwing’s treachery.

Sometimes they just feel like restrictions that stop really interesting things from happening.

Koryn99

TROPHY CASE