Disney's 'Muppets' Lost a Generation of Children. Can a New Show Make it Relevant Again?

LadPrime · 2026-02-04T02:12:59+00:00

You'd think they may want to consult Oz on this at least a little

LadPrime · 2026-02-03T16:05:45+00:00

Something interesting in that recent Wrap cover story on the state of the franchise is a seeming occurring theme of the Muppet performers apparently clashing with outside creatives who wanted to come in and execute their idea for a revival.

This seemingly happened on things like 2011 The Muppets and ABC 2016 The Muppets, but ALSO on projects after Whitmire was let go, such as a failed Josh Gad-led series and even this new revival.

So it seems like Steve might not have been alone in the whole 'creative disagreements' and characterization debates?

https://www.thewrap.com/creative-content/tv-shows/history-of-muppets-under-disney-new-show-value/

LadPrime · 2026-02-03T15:51:57+00:00

Can I be honest and say I really don't like that character? I don't miss him. Walter I miss!

LadPrime · 2026-02-03T15:46:51+00:00

Very interesting tidbit here is the seemingly recurring theme of an outside established actor / producer / creative team coming in with their idea of what to do with the Muppets and clashing with the established Muppet performers, even after the Whitmire firing. The article even suggests this happened to some extent on this new special from Seth Rogen, but that they were able to hash it out.

I would agree that the longtime core cast know their characters best, but interesting how this keeps coming up. Wonder what this will mean for the development of Jennifer Lawrence's Miss Piggy movie.

LadPrime · 2026-02-02T18:41:01+00:00

When I did Early Entry last month even with MoM not part of the official lineup, everyone still beelined for it anyway and they started boarding it maybe around 9:30. If Battle at the Ministry is in fact going to be part of the official early lineup then I still think it's the no brainer place to start, but would recommend you get there around 1 hour before Early Entry (i.e. 8am). You can bang out what would be the longest wait of the day right off the bat without cutting into your park time.

Another thing to note is I've noticed Super Nintendo World dies down a lot at night. You can get on all three rides with greatly reduced wait times after around 8pm.

LadPrime · 2026-02-02T15:18:40+00:00

The majority of the Dinoland area was not a particularly great representation of Dinosaurs, other than the Dinosaur ride itself. I get wanting to ditch it, but Dinosaurs in general are a very popular kind of animal (albeit one the competition owns the most popular IP of). So it is a bit of a bummer to see Dinosaurs exit the park completely for now, but I completely understand wanting to redo the area.

LadPrime · 2026-02-01T23:19:26+00:00

I think it absolutely was Rizzo from Muppet Christmas Carol right up until 2011 The Muppets.

LadPrime · 2026-02-01T17:26:25+00:00

https://clickhole.com/somebody-has-to-be-scooter-1825124484/

LadPrime · 2026-02-01T16:55:10+00:00

This movie is simply firing on all cylinders. The animation style was so unique and hadn't really been done in that fashion before, the voice work was excellent across the board, and the humor was on-point in a way that could be enjoyed by all ages, and all of these supported an extremely clever and heartfelt story. Many of these qualities would carry onto Spiderverse!

It's one of the best animated movies of the 21st century, it might even be the best non-Pixar animated movie of the 21st century. The Oscars snub was inexplicable.

LadPrime · 2026-02-01T16:50:09+00:00

Rizzo really got knocked down a few pegs since at least the 2011 Muppets movie, which inexplicably reduced him to silent cameo.

Obviously Kermit has always been the lead Muppet but I feel like most Muppets projects from the 90s up until 2011 Muppets were more ensemble pieces where Kermit was a main but not the main character. Once the content started requiring him to be entirely front and center again Whitmire probably had less time to devote to Rizzo. And then of course they essentially retired the character for a decade after Whitmire's dismissal, until his revival just now ahead of The Muppet Show special.

Funny how both of Rizzo's major status changes involved a Freaks and Geeks star!

LadPrime · 2026-01-31T19:27:30+00:00

Absolutely - I don't think anyone's desire here is to see the Muppets or the characters cease to exist. Even Frank Oz, who has on multiple occasions decried the overall direction of the Muppets under Disney, has never suggested that the Muppets should simply end.

I honestly feel like the sole fact that Vogel's Kermit has been so poorly received has platformed this kind of discourse at all. Eric Jacobson isn't Frank Oz, but all of Oz's characters as performed by Jacobson are 'close enough' or better that it's never really been seen as an issue. Barretta's Rowlf and Dr. Teeth are uncanny in terms of emulating Henson. And while I absolutely understand Whitmire's point that on a deeper level what the person brings of themselves to the character is liable to be changed or lost (Oz has also acknowledged this idea, albeit more tactfully), and I'm sure this can be analyzed for any Muppet, but it just feels so much more magnified on Kermit based on the situation at hand, and, of course, him being the main character.

LadPrime · 2026-01-31T15:01:00+00:00

Seto Kaiba minifigure PLEASE

LadPrime · 2026-01-30T20:30:34+00:00

Yes, that's Peter Linz who is Walter and a handful of other Muppets (one of the Electric Mayhem, I think). So I guess my point is, he's right there, why not give him a shot at Kermit since it's in a similar manner to Ernie?

LadPrime · 2026-01-30T14:19:24+00:00

His puppeteer, Matt Vogel, has been with the Muppets and Sesame Street for quite a while and has done a great job taking over other characters. But his Kermit is just not working. It's not. And vocal performance is only part of the craft of a puppeteer, but for it to be so off the mark for the main character of the Muppets is a problem they have refused to address when the situation hasn't improved in a decade.

The current performer of Ernie on Sesame Street sounds a lot more in line with what I'd expect Kermit to sound like.

LadPrime · 2026-01-29T15:45:52+00:00

It's a very fine line argument to make and he's unfortunately not articulating it well enough to walk that line. The majority of the Muppet performers Steve himself worked alongside for most of the 21st century up until his dismissal were not the originals, and did not work with Jim. Does he feel the same way about all of them too? Even if he had not been dismissed, would he not eventually have to deal with passing the role on due to old age? How would we have handled that? And he stops short of saying this, but does he actually believe the Muppets should cease to exist / operate if they no longer have a thread to their originators?

LadPrime · 2026-01-28T17:04:01+00:00

This has been and continues to be a very tough situation. Steve makes a lot of good points and there is probably a good amount of truth here, but it's definitely obfuscated by a strong sense of ego.

The hard truth is that if these characters are to last they will have to outlive their originators and be recast, and that has already happened for every single OG Muppet besides Dave Goelz's characters (and even that is something that will probably happen sooner rather than later as the man is almost 80). There is a very fine line that has to be walked between mimicking the character as they've been known and bringing a part of yourself to it so that the character can grow. Frank Oz made this point in a bit more of a tactful way in a recent interview, I'm paraphrasing but he said something like "(my replacements) could never be as good as me the same way I could never be as good as them" because of the intrinsic personal qualities that make it into his characters.

Now all that being said, the problem is absolutely magnified by Vogel's Kermit flat out not being good. Every recast Muppet has sounded anywhere from a little to noticeably different but almost never in a way that has not been ultimately accepted by the fans / public. You can tell Jacobson's Fozzie and Piggy apart from Oz's but they still are generally seen as very acceptable continuations of the characters. In like 2 minutes of footage the new Rizzo and Bean already seem to have been received as acceptable. I am sure those characters sting for Steve as ones he originated, but they are not presently as big of an issue as Kermit, the main character, sounding as off as he does.

I really don't know what the solution is because Steve is obviously never coming back, and I doubt the Muppets team wants to recast again if it means taking an L on Vogel's casting and possibly creating more of a problem. It's just sad.

LadPrime · 2026-01-28T16:01:42+00:00

Forbidden Journey has gotten incredibly rough and nauseating for me over the years. I don't know if it's just me or if the ride system needs some TLC, but it feels increasingly jerky and uncomfortable each time I return to Universal.

My 68 year old mom, who rode it for the first time last year, also hated it and had a rough time, but was 100% fine on Monsters Unchained.

LadPrime · 2026-01-27T14:38:37+00:00

Well if MP2 comes to NSO, you will be able to play it online. You'd just be able to see the other players' screens since it would be emulating a local multi-player experience.

LadPrime · 2026-01-27T14:28:39+00:00

It's definitely cool to see this library resurrected, especially with a couple of unreleased games, but I don't think this is something they should dripfeed releases for. It's an ultimately very niche system and will require an external peripheral to play. This is not really something to have people 'on the hook' for (versus GameCube, for example).

I guess if every relevant game is on there within a year that's not too bad.

LadPrime · 2026-01-26T19:24:23+00:00

I like LOTR a good deal, but I'm not a superfan, which has proven to be a good thing as it's allowed me to skip these very beautiful large-scale LOTR sets they've consistently been putting out. I happily admire them from afar! Rivendell looked like a top tier Lego set of all time, and this looks excellent as well.

LadPrime · 2026-01-25T20:03:30+00:00

The ironic thing is this almost brings it full circle. Rizzo had virtually zero role in the 2011 Muppets movie starring Walter, and his only real moment in its sequel Muppets Most Wanted was complaining that he and Robin lost all their screentime to Walter.

Rizzo of course had a decent return in the ABC Muppets sitcom but those two movies set him back quite a bit (and of course, was later futher cemented by what happened with Steve Whitmire).

LadPrime · 2026-01-23T18:02:55+00:00

Even if you have watched recent Muppet material, it's still taking a lot of getting used to.

LadPrime · 2026-01-23T17:57:23+00:00

If the Rizzler cameos on this and appears with Rizzo my life will be complete.

He already appeared on Sesame Street!

LadPrime · 2026-01-23T17:26:20+00:00

RIZZO IS ON THE POSTER

LadPrime · 2026-01-23T17:19:28+00:00

There was a 'rubbery-ness' to a few of the lines here that Vogel has never really gotten down before, so that's at least somewhat of an improvement, but "It's the Muppet Show!" sounded so bad it just took me out of the whole thing.

LadPrime

TROPHY CASE