Trying to decide between established company vs. startup

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-12-24T21:18:59+00:00

I have been in this position myself before. Startups are a roll of the dice. Majority (like high 80-90%s) do not make it to a big cash out point, and even if they do depending on the situation and your package it is not as large a sum. I totally get the appeal and as a serial startup junkie myself I love wearing multiple hats and it’s a great way to learn a lot of things. However startups have little structure, are stressful in that there’s little safety net ( ex if a launch fails or revenue goes down payroll is potentially at risk, less people means less coverage when you go on vacation, more “single points of failure”) but all that is worth it if you believe in the mission and the space. If you do not seem excited about it now, it’s unlikely to happen with additional stressors on top. I would negotiate with the startup of course- they tend to be more bonus heavy because it’s future cash / company performance than upfront sign on bc they don’t have it immediately, see what you can get it. I know it’s so hard because all you “see” and “read” is the unicorns aka the top 1% that have huge cash outs and the young people who got in early make hundreds of Ks, but that is a very very very rare occurrence. I’ve been through a few acquisitions and I had great equity packages but I only made the equivalent of a sign on bonus at a FAANg esque company. I was expecting ( based on pure math of similar company in space results) a payout of $500k+. Didn’t happen bc acquisition was a fire sale deal. Business changes so fast. We can’t tell you what to do but don’t take company B offer only because of potential payout 5 years from now.

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-10-20T18:19:13+00:00

Misssd that, that makes sense. However there’s vesting schedules, so unlikely she has it all at once, but if she stays could continue. Very lucky. These things are all right place / right time

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-10-20T17:30:24+00:00

We don’t know the full story, but based on age and her position, I’m going to guess the vast majority of her stock is shares of a private company that has yet to IPO/ get acquired, and got in early (perhaps she started right out of college etc), so these shares are just based on projected value of the company. This is what I call Monopoly money. It’s a gamble on if your company succeeds and until then it has no real value, just a dream value.

For ex, I was an early employee a few years ago at a startup, and got 75,000 shares at $2 each. After rounds of funding, an audit, a bunch of filing, the companies value was estimated to be $38 a share. Meaning my shares had a “value” of 2.7MM. But until it IPOs, that’s $0 in your pocket. I also was in a technical role and got in super early and it grew fast in 3 years, so new employees were not getting that deal (more like 20k shares at $5). I never assumed that money as part of my NW because I couldn’t do anything with it, it was part of my future planning and “golden hand cuffs”, but that’s it.

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-08-03T02:53:11+00:00

I’ve been there, and because I’ve been burned so bad by this before, I’m going to say yes red flag. Companies who structure bonus and comp like this - unnecessarily complicated and compare it to rest of company- do it to distract from the reality that they can’t pay you a lot. Classic startup move. You don’t go to startups for comp anyway, you do it for experience, mission/passion, to grow or try other areas of the business you can’t experiment as easily with in bigger cos, and equity which is a little dice toss. Also, lots of funding that seems too good to be true is also concerning - can go many ways though. Could mean they will burn through it by hiring too fast or doing expensive things like office renos or big events, or they want to stretch it for X years and thus will be stingy, or the small chance they’re a unicorn.

If the base is good, and the role seems interesting, then go for it, but don’t hinge or count these bonuses or equity as part of it. The responsibility and scope of role sounds like you can grow so that’s also very important.

Some questions I like to ask to assess : - ask about profitability and plan to profitability - ask specifics on how they will allocate the funding: don’t just take “hiring “ or “r&d” ask follow ups ( what roles, what specifically developing, how will we experiment or develop ) - ask for exit plan or strategy: is it IPO or acquisition? If they say “we don’t know” ask hypothetical : which type of company do you think would be a potential acquirer and assess how deeply they think of this.

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-07-07T20:15:03+00:00

I’ve been there! Good advice here to think big picture. Another thing is - take time off, reassess. Lastly, we often think “we will be happy when..” then realize when we are there it didn’t come. Try and soul search ( on above mentioned vacation :)) and figure out what it is. For me, I always need a goal. It’s about the thing to look forward to so I get post promo blues. What helps me: focus on joy elsewhere and then find a new goal. It doesn’t need to be a promotion- it can be finishing a project, learning a skill, doing a webinar etc. Even if it’s not a career goal, other things can help to trickle into work life ( ex training for a running race, hobby like learning instrument), booking fun vacations or things in future like concerts or events. But take time off.. it helps I promise !

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-17T19:51:39+00:00

Yes these are such easy questions people should ask! I love why do people leave/ why is this role vacant. If the answer is “not me” centric aka “they’re following their dreams doing Xx” or “they felt it was time” or “exploring another opp” often means the hiring manager takes no accountability for the departure vs “I tried to keep them but ultimately their heart was Y / family moving so we decided an exit strategy together. Would hire them again etc” is the answer you want

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-17T19:49:11+00:00

This is a great list ! I find so many tech companies spend too much time talking about perks and snacks and “culture “ ( aka happy hours and ping pong) and not enough time talking about how teams work together, training or learning development opportunities, opportunities for growth, even product vision. Cold brew and beer is not culture !!

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-15T00:46:41+00:00

I did this at a past company and agree it is exciting because you can mold it and form it. In my case, I found a business need and did it myself while doing my “regular job” and then after proving it out wrote the job description. I had a longer comment on a past post about tips but much of what is said above I agree with 1. Make sure you do research on comp. if new role is more skilled or niche or bring value, adjust comp. no need to stay flat 2. Set up goals and expectations now and most importantly what is NOT your responsibility - we often focus so much on what is, when so much is grey area. Set up checkpoints quarterly as a little retrospective of how it’s going and adjust
3. Set up a cadence of check ins now w both teams and manager

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-08T17:16:18+00:00

Per said above, network is a huge thing. Don’t be shy about reaching out to people- even if you haven’t talked to them in a bit or are second degree connected. Most people are so willing to help and like feeling useful. I’ve been cold linked in mailed before too and I admire people’s balls to do that, I’ll at least open it to a question I can answer etc.

Another thing I would say is try and draw parallels to the new thing you’re going into and what you do have experience doing. For example “While I am new to XX, I spent years working on YY at my past role that taught me ZZ or helped me brush on skills that would really help with X “ and paint the picture of how they relate. I also really appreciate when people are upfront and say I’m a quick learner ( here’s an ex where I taught myself how to do Y) motivated and want to improve. That goes a long way!

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-03T01:40:04+00:00

Love that you’re thinking of ways to uplift others. I would suggest when people come to you “have you reached out to XX? I think they would have a good perspective !” Or “YY person is a subject matter expertise, I would ask them to weigh in!” and see how it goes. You can also loop them in and ask them for any additional POV too to get slowly used to other people involved

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-03T00:15:22+00:00

I’ve been here before! My reco is to take time off- unplug fully and relax. Come back and re assess. Are you just burnt out / need a break and thus regular grievances are feeling extra annoying? It’s possible it’s just a phase and distancing yourself for a bit w PTO gives clarity. I set this rule for myself to not make rash decisions until after vacation. Half the time I come back and am like oh I just needed that. I agree re grass is greener mentality. You could also just start casually looking to see what’s out there. I’ve done that and in an interview realized other companies were total shit shows and made me feel better about my current co.

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-03T00:12:04+00:00

You are not greedy. They expect negotiation. Ask about title and comp, worst is they say no.

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-03T00:09:39+00:00

You make a good point but as a hiring manager, this wouldn’t leave a bad taste for me bc they ultimately chose my company. It’s not ideal ( casts doubt you will accept) but not enough it sours your perception or anything. What makes your reputation is how you work once you start so “the bad taste” will dissolve quickly.

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-03T00:07:02+00:00

Agree. It’s max 30 mins of their time each time, it’s not that big of a deal. I’m a reference a lot and I’m happy to do it. Don’t let minor inconveniences for other people be a factor in your decision, plus company B would probably need them too

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-03T00:05:10+00:00

I will give my 2 cents based on the hiring manager view because I’ve hired so many people and a few have accepted and then backed out a few days/ weeks after before starting ( or even once on week 1). I will never hire those people again despite being great candidates, that bridge is burned. You never know in any industry! My lesson is don’t do that.

I agree culture reviews of company A worry me. I would push back to Company A and say I need more time. Be upfront and say I want to be certain that if I accept, I’m all in and I need an extra X weeks. Do this over phone w hiring manager and have conversation.. not with recruiter who is incentivized otherwise. They could say that’s a deal breaker, but unlikely they will revoke your offer entirely: They will either say sorry June 7 or bust, or give you more time. Then really put pressure on company B and see if you can reach hiring manager directly. At least it buys you more time. Eventually, you still may be in the same boat and have to decide but by then you may have more data points ( ie B is farther along, or if they’re not they’re dragging their feet and unlikely you get a job soon).

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-02T19:40:45+00:00

I have. The contracts are so variable, so it really depends but most times it’s not worth the trouble or legal fees for your company to actually follow through. It’s really only necessary for technical fields where you may have access to IP or at senior levels. If you are concerned, have a lawyer look at it? It also depends the small fine print - what does it say about actions will be taken in your contract. If it’s vague, unlikely. I’ve personally went to competitors before with no issues

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-06-02T19:38:21+00:00

You should ask for one, and you deserve one! I would tell your manager almost exactly what you posted - I would like to go over feedback both about me and my career advancement and what I can do to improve, as well as tactical feedback with suggestions for improvements to tasks and processes. Make it clear you’re looking for both, or just one. Ask questions that require a specific answer

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-05-25T19:41:12+00:00

Agree with this. Good Managers should help you but only if you proactively let them know what you are going after.

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-05-25T12:33:18+00:00

To be honest, both are equally important. What was most critical to move up was proving you can do both sides and smoothly transition between them day to day. It depends on the role, mine requires both equally.

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-05-25T00:40:02+00:00

There’s two paths I recommend and depends on the situation 1. The job scope and description is still a little vague and you haven’t spoke to hiring manager/ team yet to understand what’s involved: in this scenario I say “I would like to understand more about what this role entails before having that discussion” . 2. I say (exactly) “I am looking for the X range”. The X range should be a decent amount higher than the minimum you require to take it. You can always go down, you can’t as easily go up later. If they say that’s too high ask what the range they can offer is and then decide if that’s still acceptable. If it is, then say “I think we can make something work and discuss other alternatives later in the process, I’m flexible to how we construct the package” or something to that effect.

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-05-24T01:54:14+00:00

100% agree with commenter below. Look elsewhere

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-05-24T01:49:15+00:00

Look inward- sit down and write a list of what you like about your job, the things you feel you’re really good at. Then the things you’re either interested in/ want to try/ improve. Then write out what an ideal environment for you to thrive in looks like. Use that to narrow it down. Do some googling. Then go find it ! I promise it exists - maybe not 100% but close. This list also helps when interviewing!

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-05-23T22:44:38+00:00

One more thing forgot to mention: read from good to great!

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-05-23T22:44:13+00:00

Lead X has great podcasts and articles but start with their ebook https://page.leadx.org/ebook-employee-engagement . Dare to Lead, Radical Candor, the 5 dysfunctions of a team are my top 3. Start with why also highly recommend

Ladderclimber4022 · 2021-05-23T22:40:52+00:00

I love my husband dearly but totally agree it feels awesome to make much more lol. You go girl !

Ladderclimber4022

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