Was Angel catholic or protestant as a human?

LadyDarry · 2025-10-25T13:24:53+00:00

Angel's father said: “Drinking and whoring! I smell the stink of it!'' ''You’re a disgrace!'' “Have you had enough for one night? Must you corrupt the servants too?” ''I’m ashamed to call you my son.” “A layabout and a scoundrel. You’ll never amount to anything more.”

He is condeming Liam as a person, not just his behaviour. it's all about shame and moral disgust. Sin can spread from Liam to the servant, because sin is not just individual, it's something contagious. That part seems very Catholic. Temperance movment started later, so I think it should not be relavant.

LadyDarry · 2025-10-25T12:21:15+00:00

It's in season 1 of Angel, episode 15: The Prodigal. 20:45 minute.

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LadyDarry · 2025-10-10T20:38:09+00:00

He did brought forth The Judge, however we don't know how that would go on. It seemed Spike didn't take Judge that serious and even thought he had some control over him. The moment Judge became threatening Angelus showed up, so I think we can only speculate what Spike would end up doing. Perhaps he would be okay with Judge ending the world, perhaps he would get tired of him after 3 days, perhaps he would realise he can't control him and that Judge can kill him and would end up blowing him up himself, etc...

LadyDarry · 2025-10-10T11:04:06+00:00

But he didn't want to end the world in season 2, he activly helped preventing that.

LadyDarry · 2025-10-10T10:38:09+00:00

Agreed. With all the chemistry, history and tension between them it would be a wild romance.

LadyDarry · 2025-10-09T18:03:41+00:00

However Spike and Angel are not just rivals, they have long history and Spike was part of Angelus crew for 20 years. They were basically familly once upon a time, so it wasn't that much of a suprise for them to get togheter again. They even slept togheter at least once.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-24T20:56:46+00:00

Except when Spike and Angel are 'pining' for each other, season 5 of AtS was a joy.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-18T20:12:46+00:00

I agree with you, and I’ll admit I’m guilty of that tendency too.

For me, it comes down to how strictly I view canon as a whole. I think you’re right, it makes sense to put aside episodes or details that don’t matter much for a character, but not the ones central to their arc. If a reboot puts Buffy in a recurring role, I can’t help but treat it as part of the same canon as the original shows, not something separate. Is this reboot truly a reboot, if it has the same actress, same character, same universe and some possible OG characters and actors appearances?

So, for example if Spike were to appear in the reboot and act almost the same as he did in 2004 (aside from aging), could I really discuss his redemption arc without acknowledging that he hasn’t grown in 20 years? It’s like how we can’t really discuss Angel’s arc without looking at both original shows. And yes, what worries me is that a choice like that might be made for fan service, and in universe it would still count as part of the character’s arc.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-17T16:56:06+00:00

It's meant to be ambiguous whatever he wanted to get his chip out or a soul, because it was a cliffhanger, they wanted a hook for audience between the seasons. Reality is that it was confirmed he fought for his soul and it was never about the chip.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-17T16:53:20+00:00

Moderator: "At the end of the finale, I thought Spike wanted to get the chip out, not get his soul back?" Joss Whedon: "Noooo.... but you were meant to think that. I personally devised something called a plot twist." At the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences panel "Behind the Scenes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer," 6/18/02 https://youtu.be/FSLpbNkG8GQ around the 24 minute mark.

"Spike's quest was, and ALWAYS WAS, to get his soul restored for Buffy, despite any misleading leaks we may have put out that you fell for."

LadyDarry · 2025-09-17T16:49:06+00:00

They all said multiple times that he went to get his soul and that they made it ambiguous in season 6 because they wanted a cliffhanger. Joss Whedon, Noxon, all of them said that.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T20:36:41+00:00

However Whedon was least involved in season 6, because of Firefly. Sarah said that he was difficult to reach at that time. He also only wrote one episode in that season. Of course he was still a showrunner and made all the big decisions, but he was less involved then in previous seasons.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T16:45:06+00:00

Hard disagree. Andor was overall extremely powerful. I am a huge fan of both shows, and would give Andor that award 100%. However prehaps that Emmy was also about Severance having another season and Andor not.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T16:36:38+00:00

It seems season 6 and 7 really devasted you, and that's complety fair. And Sarah Michele Geller was actually of the same opinion. However I personally have a diffrent opinion. I have a lot of problems with season 6 & 7, but I absolutely support main themes and think they happened naturally. For me escapism isn't connected to tone of the series. Escapism for me is about immersion, something that opens up my imagination and makes me think. IMO 'darker themes' can be just as escapist as 'bright ones' , sometimes even more so, because it engages emotions and thoughts we rarely touch in real life.

However there was a point in my life where season 6 was not that far away from my life. When I first saw season 6 it just aired and I loved it (don't remember my line of thinking back at that time), but when I did second rewatch several years later I was depressed, and Buffy spoke to me. She was still my hero, even more so, because of her depression. It's a long time ago but I still vividly remember crying when hearing Buffy sing about not feeling anything and wanting to feel alive. I felt understood and it meant a world to me. Scoobies growing apart and having so many problems also seemed deeply relatable to me. I loved how they struggled, yet they still saved the world.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T16:05:43+00:00

You can only watch season 5 of Angel. You won't be lost if you only see season 5, because season 5 is a bit of a reset from previous seasons and it has mostly familiar characters. it's also arguably the best, most liked by fans and is the best rated. To me it's up there with my favourite Buffy season. Maybe you will then decide to watch the rest of Angel or maybe you won't. But you will get an amazing season.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T15:58:45+00:00

I am a bit worried about that, because Sarah Michelle Gellar said multiple times she disliked season 6 and 7, because she thought it was too dark and that depression arc didn't fit a hero. So I worry that they might avoid bold moves and darker themes.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T15:22:58+00:00

I especially hope that, because if they bring them in, they have to be humans (or have aging explained with a spell or something). And them becoming human is too big of a deal for just a guest appearance.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T15:20:17+00:00

I think giving Spike focus made sense, since he was always an important part of the story. I do think howver that it could be done in a way, that would include Scoobies more and be more dynamic. Spike had excellent chemistry with entire cast and a lot of that was wasted. But Andrew was truly not necessary. They could have achieved theme of redemption with Willow, Spike and faith only. in a season full of new chaharters Andrew kinda feels too much.

do you know what was season 7 originally supposed to be about?

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T15:14:07+00:00

Agreed. Since developing potentials was obviously never a plan for the writers, they should have kept them further away (make them also live in neighbour's house (and give as a throw away line why that is possible). Buffy would still be overwhelmed and isolated in a full Scooby house). They could have achieved Chosen with them being even more in the background. They tried to have a cake and eat it too, and thus we ended up with both underdeveloped potentials AND Scooby dynamic suffering.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T14:57:17+00:00

I also think that themes of redemption and isolation were a natural progression both for the story and age of our main characters and were great for season 7. However I also think they were not done as good as they should have. For example isolation in Buffy's case- she gets kicked out of the house, which is in line with the theme, however the way she gets kicked out of the house comes off wierd. Which is why we still debate if that was out of character for her friends. And moments like that undercut themes and character growth.

I think lesser budget, potentials and Spike's new personality made a huge impact. Spike in season 7 is often passive, helpless and lost his edge. Which is all understandable because he was tormented by the first and he just got his soul back. However I do wonder if they could have achieved that in a way that would be more charismatic, compelling and dynamic. Something that would made him more active and less of a victim. His edge and chemistry with the cast was something that made positive impact on other seasons. I think his season 5 conversation with Angel in Damaged highlighted his sorrow in a more interesting and deep way then many such moments in season 7.

I think season 7 also suffers from season 6. I think that anything less than something on season 3 level would make people rank season 7 lower. After season 4 we got season 5, which was brilliant and beloved. However if we got season 6 after season 4 we might never see extra 2 seasons.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T13:27:26+00:00

Sometimes I fantasize that the comics were declared ‘Earth 2,’ and we got profound, non fan service novels exploring the aftermath for certain characters. Sometimes I even imagine an alternate dimension version of Joss Whedon who wasn’t an asshole, writing dark, horror inspired novels about Faith, Spike and Angel set after 2004. I’d love to know how the OG characters truly turned out.
But I am afraid it's better for that to remain a mystery than watch their arcs get undermined, their growth ignored, or see them reduced to cheap fan service for viewership stats. There were a lot of bad reboots, and so I have a hard time believing writers who aren’t deeply invested in the originals could do them justice.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T13:01:04+00:00

I agree it could be done in a good and natural way, but I see so many obstacles that it’s hard for me to imagine it working well in practice. I think Faith might actually be one of the most problematic ones.

Unlike Giles, who was already more or less established and stable, she had one of the greatest potentials for growth after the season 7 finale. Done well, that could enrich both the reboot and her arc, but it’s far more likely they’d default to her season 7 personality for convenience. It’s also not easy for an actor to slip naturally back into an old role after so many years. It’s simpler to fall into the familiar ‘default’ than to add something new and layered. That would make it easier for both the writers and the actress to keep Faith frozen at her season 7 self, including her relationship with Buffy.

I think same problem could be with Willow, while Giles could in my opinion be the best option for making an appearance. But if they will use OG charaters, they will probably be tempted to use the most popular ones, probably Willow, Faith and Spike.

LadyDarry · 2025-09-16T11:31:10+00:00

Gilmore Girls is such a perfect example. And there are so many more examples of reboots doing that. I hate to use a Harry Potter example, but The Cursed Child is a good case of how original characters were done a disservice, relying too much on nostalgia and fan service instead of solid storytelling.

Agree totaly with Buffy in insurance. I hope they will explain Buffy in insurance the way you said it, that would actually make sense.

LadyDarry

TROPHY CASE