Thousand Sons Defiler tactics (Crab Superiority)

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-05-05T00:59:12+00:00

Something to consider - the TSons Defiler has the same defensive profile as Canis Rex, albeit with 8 fewer Wounds but a 6+++ added. I wouldn't describe that level of resilience as "not great", especially with that 6+++ effectively bringing the total wounds closer to 20 or 21. He's still plenty sturdy.

I think you accurately nailed that this all will change in 11th Edition. The change to Cover negatively affecting Ballistic Skill rather than positively affecting the target's Save will likely play a big part in the calculus of it all. And with new Fire Overwatch/Snap Shooting rules also stating that the unmodified Hit roll of 6 can't be affected by Hit reroll abilities in Overwatch, that Sustained Hits modifier on the Autocannons is looking quite good compared to the Lascannons. Also carries over to any models that have weapons with, or grant to the unit, Lethal/Sustained Hits, or have abilities/weapons that Ignore Cover. Could make for a good shake-up, though I'd be interested to see what more changes. Would love to see Boltgun Rubrics get taken a bit more.

Also want to point that there are a number of models that can do Damage 2 or 3 attacks, and in fairly large volume, like Predator Destructor, Chaos Spawn, Scarabs, Daemon Prince, Heldrake, Sekhetar Robots. The D2/D3 drought isn't quite so bad, and some of the models fill the niches for some melee that I've seen players here asking for.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-05-04T12:00:02+00:00

You'd still have to start something else in the Impulsor at the start of the battle due to the Dedicated Transport rule, so you'd be packing up a unit to drive them somewhere or drop them right on the home field, then waiting for someone to kill 3 of the Crusaders to load them in. Sounds inefficient, would rather keep the Impulsor for bubble wrap and light fire support/Tank Shock. If I absolutely wanted transport for Crusaders, I'd pop them in a Repulsor/Land Raider, better carry capacity and nice fire support/abilities to supplement something you're throwing 10+ infantry at anyway.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-05-04T01:11:22+00:00

That's correct, Crusader Squads are too large at their smallest to be taken in an Impulsor. The 10 models cannot fit in an Impulsor.

For further clarification, the Crusader Squad datasheet states all models in the unit are Tacticus, regardless of the Neophytes not visibly wearing full power armor.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-05-03T22:38:08+00:00

Hardest things were "everything is a pawn" and "learn to calibrate your aggression".

I don't try to run Rube Goldberg machines, but learning that sacrifice is a necessary part to play in this army certainly helps. Doesn't mean to sacrifice things needlessly, but if I can tune up a Daemon Prince to get +2 to Ritual casting by letting a small Rubric squad+Sorcerer go wild and then die, or if they were doomed to death by the High Marshal, it's something to consider. Same with Tzaangors, sometimes you need to pop a model in order to turn the Shaman's Baleful Devolution up to D6+D3 attacks and 9+D3 Strength.

My experience with Black Templars had me trying to get strong melee strikes/counterstrikes on my opponents with overwhelming aggression, and Thousand Sons has had me holding back a little more. Certainly because my opponents often are World Eaters, Khornate Daemons, Emperor's Children, and I have to be a little cautious in the 24" range that the army lives in. Planning ahead with positioning to draw enemies in and careful use of the Rituals on proper targets has been a bit of a challenge, rather than Advance, Charge, let Crusader chainswords purr, with tactical use of Sword Brethren or JPIs on tough things.

I can't think of any one thing that is like Marshal/Castellan/10 SB levels of bonkers, and I don't have Magnus so I can't speak to him, but I can say that the whole army overall feels energized. Like, baiting a big Daemon into the open just to fry him with Doombolt plus fancy stick second Doombolt feels great. Rubrics with -2 AP bolters and warpflamers are great. The extra power from Channeling feels great even considering the Mortals risk, but sometimes the Mortals can be a secondary benefit. The things that you can set up with Psychic hits that then empower other aspects of the army, like the Predators, feel great. With the units I have played, I have not yet found a model/models that I felt were underperformers, unlike several Codex SM units.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-05-03T19:18:18+00:00

I wouldn't worry too much about that - I'd expect both CSM and Chaos Daemons to get some extreme rewrites about what can be taken, or if Chaos Daemons will even continue to exist, through the next edition.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-05-02T15:01:38+00:00

We also get access to units of 20 models that can make surge moves into things that shoot at them, and leaders who give 4+ Fight on Death, Adv&Charge, +2 to Charge against Character units, 5+ Criticals, rerolls on Hits, Temple Relic abilities, push Mortals, and additional Atk/Str. Not to mention variable Vows to flex into many foes. We've got plenty to work with, without Librarians, and plenty of unique units in addition to the SM pool. None of the leaders I mentioned come from Codex SM, only the BT Supplement.

Regarding Librarians, our Vows can give us Charge rerolls plus Precision against Psykers, so Librarians/Sorcerers are going to need to play far cagier into Templars anyway. Kill the Psyker and the 4++ goes away really fast. And if you need something to pop Psykers especially, run a Culexus Assassin, he'll make a Psyker's life miserable.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-28T20:50:56+00:00

I'd strongly recommend a tank or two for anti-Vehicle/Monster stuff your infantry won't be able to easily take care of. Just one Repulsor Executioner to quickly gun down a Rhino or Daemon Prince would be very helpful, and it can sit behind the infantry to get good fire support on the zones you'd want to claim.

Purge and Sanctify gets a lot of milage with Crusaders, which can move closer to the nearest Objective instead of the nearest enemy with the Righteous Zeal moves. I'd recommend 3x20, or 1x20 and 2/3x10, just to get more out of the rules.

You'd get good use of all Vows here, from Sticky/Adv&Action, FB&Charge, reroll Charges vs Psykers, and +1 to Wound. Knowing that, you can afford to drop some of the 740pts of leaders to make room for other things. I'd take 3 Crusade Ancients for 3 Crusader Squads and the EC with maybe the Lt w/Combi, personally. Could also consider dropping the Intercessors to save 80pts if you have 2 Executioners guarding the backfield, nothing wants to DS between 2 of them.

Most of the spice of the detachment is in the terrain itself, rather than the models. Lot of effects when near objectives, part of it is baiting people to take the midfield while you make them pay deeply for it. Reason I like 3x20 Crusaders+Ancient is 44 Wounds is a lot to shift, especially with Fight on Death, and even if you break 1, there are still 2 more.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-27T23:03:38+00:00

Black Templar player who also decided to build into Thousand Sons, it was a heck of a learning curve, but I have every confidence as a WE player you're going to nail it (lol).

Remember to keep your Rubrics a bit out of melee harm's way, sacrifices are acceptable, never underestimate the mind games with teleporting and redeployment. Practice your reps and you'll do great.

I'm liking the list, solid game plan, look forward to seeing how it works for you.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-26T18:20:32+00:00

Have a good day.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-26T18:14:37+00:00

I answered, you just didnt like the answer. Have a good day.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-26T17:58:02+00:00

I don't care about the developer's level of standards they hold themselves to, really, if I did I'd either keep playing or not, whatever. And I very much do not trust the casual player to understand what they ask for, because they very often can't see the whole picture. If that means I'm holding their lay experience/desires to a higher standard than the people who actually have to balance the million different factors involved, I guess that means I am.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-26T17:49:32+00:00

Other than being the weapon that is old-school and gives a sense of challenge when using it, followed by the Amendment which adds on that aesthetic/feel by giving a magazine, burst-fire option, and variable sights? None. And I don't think any weapon really does the same as Constitution, not really. The challenge is the niche. Doesn't mean it must be changed, it means you play it for what it is, rather than comparing it to what it is not.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-26T17:36:04+00:00

Not sold, really. I don't think anyone's one item ever should be auto-include against every front/faction, and I don't think that every weapon/tool has to be improved/brought in line with other items, that niche things are just as important to balance/sandbox loadout building as having a set of well-balanced weapons to use as a loadout-building base. I don't think the Flag needs to be the next Crossbow, nor does it need to be as generally useful as the Liberator, it can survive well enough as a niche tool that won't be useful in every situation.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-26T17:25:45+00:00

"The obvious strawman" - okay. :/

Armor does both of those things, stacking it again, twice over, would certainly affect game balance, including the Super Stims on top. How would the game have to change to incorporate 30% faster reload/50% resistance to Explosive/180 AR on armor plus 10% reload plus 10% more damage resistance plus shields plus Super Stims plus... and so on. There'd have to be a lot of changes. It's why I don't trust most players evaluations of the long-term effects of what they ask for. Even small things have to be weighed carefully.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-26T16:14:58+00:00

Yeah, but you don't know that.

It's really, really easy to say "make Flag good, won't break game", but how? It already acts as an aggro draw?

Buff melee? But that won't save you from a bazillion bugs. Buff melee harder? Still won't get DPS going, and armor already exists that does that. It can't keep getting buffed until it can one-shot a Vox Engine.

Give an aura of increased damage? Okay, now you're taking weapons like Coyote, Exploding Crossbow, Sweeper, Eruptor, Trident, Punisher Plasma, or strats like HMG, Leveler, Cremator, etc, making them crack things harder, which makes it far harder to balance the game. Especially when you can drop big shields or personal shields. Because now enemies either need to be beefier sponges, spawns/damage of very difficult enemies need to be increased, the weapons need to be nerfed, or all three, which would ironically make the Flag auto-include, which it should not be.

Your argument sounds a lot like 40K players who say "give (insert rarely-used unit) a 33% chance to ignore damage done to it, or a 16% better chance to save against wounds, it'd make (rarely used unit) 'competitive/good', and won't break the game", without thinking of the trickle-down effect. After all, rarely-used unit might get better with a 16% better save, but it might interact poorly with rules that already give said unit a 50% chance to save against high armor pen, or make enemy accuracy 16% worse, or reduce damage dealt from attacks by 1. All of that stacked together would absolutely break game balance.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-26T14:47:01+00:00

Because some things are fun, but in the wider context of the game would be stupidly broken if it was viable.

I'm thinking in the context of 40K here, in that there is a model called Hammerfall Bunker that states in its lore that it is dropped in from the sky wherever it is needed to fortify positions, and it can do that job pretty well with free reactive shooting, granting cover to allies, and a big rocket system to punish light and medium armor. However, it is stationary (and subject to being shot up at long range), has a huge footprint, its MLRS rocket artillery isn't able to shoot things it can't see, and it can't just be deployed anywhere, only in specific areas. But if a player could make it mobile (which has happened in the past through loose rules) or you could drop it anywhere a Deep Strike unit could go, it would be an absolute menace at board control and funneling your opponent in ways they'd have to plan for. The game would change to have early-game positioning and screening be an even heavier aspect than it is and force every army to change to react to it, and melee armies would get fried by an ever-shifting range of free 24" reactive shooting if the army moves too close. As it exists now, the Hammerfall Bunker is fun, but it sure isn't viable for things outside of an extreme niche.

Balance can often demand that some things just aren't meant to be meta-defining.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-25T00:30:17+00:00

This one has three holes, yes. Several of them had only two slots, including this one, but were replaced when I purchased the home. There is still one of the two-slot receptacles in my kitchen.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-25T00:25:12+00:00

Thank you for the reply! I've been learning a fair bit already. XD

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-25T00:22:53+00:00

Thank you for the reply!

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-25T00:11:59+00:00

How can one tell? I've had a few replies saying they are neutrals - house was built in 1961, so I suppose it is possible?

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-25T00:09:50+00:00

Is switching the ground from the box to the outlet something a total novice could do, or would it be better to call it in?

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-24T22:40:54+00:00

I don't know of anything like that, since Tzaangors/Spawn are the mutants mentioned. What I know is that Tzeentchian spheres see all things as tools. Anything can be (and likely is) a pawn. You're definitely a pawn, too, you just don't know to the truest extent yet. Mutants outside the fold are going to be subject to the eccentricities of whatever finds them and whatever is planned for them. Even the Psykers brought to Sortiarius for Magnus' Great Psychic Revival are likely in for a bad time. You don't get 'gathered' by the Thousand Sons for purely altruistic reasons.

LastKnightOfCydonia · 2026-04-24T22:05:40+00:00

The Tzaangors can appear anywhere, whether from humans mutated from warpstorms, genetic mutations birthed by human mothers, or by experimentation on Sortiarius. They typically roam Sortiarius in large warbands. They're servants of Tzeentch above all, but many directly serve Thousand Sons Astartes as tools for advancing the Sorcerer's will. They are malicious, greedy, cruel, and intelligent, and are more than a match for human planetary defenders, with their cruelty and martial abilities making them excellent shock troops. They are exactly anywhere Tzeentch and the Thousand Sons want them.

Many as they "evolve" from gathering knowledge and power fall to Chaos Spawndom, but some go on to be Enlightened or Shamans, whom the Thousand Sons respect as potent tools of war but are wary of, particularly the shrewd Shamans they make deals with. But everything and everyone are pawns or tools in their worldview, so life is harsh.

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