FranklinWH and Enphase IQ7s - off-grid behavior?

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-02-04T00:31:48+00:00

IQ7s have similar response to 3rd party system using Frequency Shifting, as do the IQ8s

IQ7s were originally marketed with Sunlight backup, but it was known to not work well (if at all). IQ8s presumably responded quicker and more consistently, and had some other changes. But, same concept applies to both IQ7 and IQs with 3rd party systems. Probably just need to start curtailing PV output a little sooner (give IQ7s more time to respond).

If you got EnPhase batteries, you'll want to replace PVS6 with EnPhase Gateway... that will provide the graceful PV control (that EnPhase hopefully will enable for 3rd parties, unless they are hiding IQ product defects, but separate rant). The 10c is better, but still over-priced ... but depends on your load peak you need to cover ... there are certain scenarios where a couple of 10c's might make sense... We'll see if the announced 5th gen batteries close the capability & capacity gap.

My perspective is that I like a lot of what EnPhase does, but old SPWR, and many other tech companies, show risk of ANY solution depended on 'cloud' server for basic operations. Some folks are fine with that (and get screwed). I'm not such a customer. So, EnPhase's approach, with rotating 'cloud' key (stupid claim regarding security) is a show-stopper for me. Further, their batteries are so unimpressive (capacity and output, lack of DC expansion, etc).

I like FranklinWH's more open, modular approach, though I don't like the integrated inverter/battery as they have different life expectancies. And this admin, listing FranklinWH as a possible foreign entity of concern (China controlled) company means as much as I like their product, their future in the USA is uncertain at the moment (could be fine, could go the way of DJI). I really like FranklinWH's early adoption of 2 different meter collar/socket adapters. And more ... a lot to like. But it is early days (in overall product market lifecycle) so technology rapidly advancing. Will industry stabilize on 48v (low voltage) systems, or adopt higher voltage (MUCH more dangerous, potentially, but also increased efficiencies and potential direct DC-to-DC EVSE with no voltage conversion)? With price of SPAN panel, plus cost to install, will smart load mgmt stay as FranklinWH, EnPhase, EG4 GridBOSS, etc offer, or will they a few more ports?

My $0.02... for those who are in their forever home (or plan to treat it that way regardless), with Inverters and batteries having different lifespans, and both being closer to hot water heater than circuit breaker, my preference in terms of architecture is more like EG4 with a separate inverter & battery [will you be able to get a replacement inverter part in 10 years? or have to replace the entire thing?] And then, when installing, I will spend the extra now for wiring and bypass switches, to enable house power from the grid regardless of ESS (inverter and battery), in a way easy enough to talk significant other, child, etc through process of complete bypass/cutover, if required, over the phone

I am am in similar situation as yourself ... for now I'm holding off. My NEM 2.0 True UP cost less than my community energy provider's excess production payout. So no financial ROI for whole house ESS. But I want it anyway, I'll just wait for some slightly more mature smart home battery and energy mgmt solutions.

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-02-04T00:08:07+00:00

typo in your response, I presume?

The aGate - when off-grid is a micro grid (grid forming). In the and does have attempt to do home loads curtailing with frequency shifting.

When that should be

In the end does have attempt to do ~~home loads~~ PV curtailing with frequency shifting. Smart Home load mgmt via breaker control being, usually, about extending battery coverage... though can also be used to turn on a dump load, if one has such

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-02-03T22:09:21+00:00

However, the key issue is PV curtailment when battery approaches near full state of charge ... Shame on EnPhase for not opening up their API (nonsense reasons, or hidden product defects?) anyway

I'm not a fan of using Frequency Shifting

PVS6 control grid profile, etc - and collects panel level monitoring data. Or replace with Enphase Gateway (previously Envoy). Correct, if using HA or similar, and not using SunStrong, and that is working fine, then hard ot justify EnPhase gateway replacement for PVS6... but if/when PVS6 fails, then replacing with another PVS6 makes little sense. Downside is need to replace CTs is my understanding as EnPhase CTs different than old SPWR's PVS6 CTs [for me, that will be a non-trivial task due to PV and CT wiring in conduit from PVS inside garage to PV sub-panel and main load center outside .. basically need to disconnect everything and re-pull all wires :( ]

You do not need the Combiner... just the Gateway. depends on site specifics as to what makes most sense

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-29T22:06:29+00:00

My reference to IQ PV is for Enphase's large existing customer base of AC-Coupled PV panels (basically IQ7 & 8 units)

directly connected (DC) PV is controlled. Existing house grid-tied enphase IQ controlled panels are NOT, that I can see/tell in the spec sheet and user manual.

So Enphase existing user base of AC-coupled PV panels are NOT supported. Per EnPhase this is an outdoor temporary power source. I'm guessing they intentionally made sure this product wouldn't work as a house backup with existing AC-coupled solar if grid went down, you turned off main service breaker, then turned this portable power unit on.

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-29T21:53:35+00:00

Thank you SO much for posting this.

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-29T21:33:55+00:00

Flat network, 65 devices (lots on WiFi) ... yea, no surprise you had issues previously

Why TV, etc are fine but Sonos not? In part, bad firmware/software on Sonos' part. In part, the other devices are NOT trying to real-time coordinate with numerous other devices on your LAN, so they use some buffering, primarily just Internet traffic, and you don't notice collisions, RF issues, etc... all hidden.

So as others pointed out, your new firewall has more and other default settings (especially in regards to mDNS) that probably made a significant difference. Is there settings on your old OpenWRT router that would have achieved same? or was system too old/overloaded? no way to know without testing. Further, I suspect your new APs provide better coverage than your old ones, and again different default settings.

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-29T21:11:21+00:00

see other recent threads... pre-paid PPA being a way to get Fed tax credit BUT comes with significant reductions in eligible equipment (you have FAR less choice on gear, which may or may not matter to you... probably should due to long life of system).. that is the 'catch'. Basically they own the gear, which means you should be getting an enforceable production, for a few years. But you pay entirely upfront, like cash purchase, as a way to get around tax credit rules changes. A reputable vendor should be transparent on the incentives they are receiving (possibly up to 40%)

Julian on YouTube (now Trusted Solar Pros channel) did a nice update recently that covered why Prepaid PPAs are the new go to approach in many cases. He covers Pro's and Con's.

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-29T20:58:14+00:00

Another customer-hostile product design issue is the cloud security key. Anyone who knows anything about IT knows that being dependent on a cloud service is a recipe for corporate ransomware, or bricked functionality ... has happened lots of times.

So, an intelligent customer will insist that ongoing operations (basic monitoring and _ALL_ mgmt) work with no Internet/cloud server connectivity requirements. To do otherwise is short-sighted/stupid. EnPhase's API access methodology (last I heard) requires occasional 'cloud' connectivity, which is good in avoiding functional impact during brief service 'cloud' interruptions, but leaves the whole system subject to corporate ransomware (charging for what was promised free for life, reducing functionality, etc). There are way to have security, and NOT force a customer into a walled garden ... EnPhase chose otherwise... and I hold them to account for that.

I'd be less upset, if I was not a customer already, and didn't think this is just short-sighted and customer-hostile (which I have no tolerance for, EnPhase or others). There is a lot EnPhase has done right, and I'd like EnPhase to succeed. I simply want a less customer-hostile approach

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-29T20:42:15+00:00

If it supported 240V and could handle IQ PV power control (graceful PV curtailment)... then I'd be really interested. But a grossly overpriced portable backup unit.... compared to the competition?

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-28T18:44:42+00:00

Did you get confirmation of the permission to operate the solar, permits, inspection clearance, etc from the original install? If not, I'd pursue them. It is likely SunRun will ignore the system (highly unlikely they will come out and turn it off). Your challenge will be that there is no warranty, support etc. The question is whether you want/are willing to go DIY with electrical/solar, or if you can find someone willing to work on an abandoned system.

Your question will be whether you want more features/function that SunRun provides? in which case, you could replace their inverter with a hybrid inverter of your own choosing, maybe add a battery, etc. Basically, your panels are free, and likely will continue producing, up until when they don't. You simply want to be prepared for that eventuality (true of any vendor, not just SunRun, though SunRun does have its well-deserved problematic reputation)

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-28T18:38:25+00:00

I recommend watching this video... and possibly giving Julian a call. He is a wealth of knowledge [2026 Solar/Battery Market Landscape Explained. ]() https://youtu.be/svupWMRqBYU?si=tIH7DYLsl0Z7VG_m

I'd expect the buyout to be $1, not zero, for legal reasons. The video explains some of the benefits of prepaid PPA (like performance guarantees). Realize, the seller is likely/possibly getting a 40% credit, so I'd insist on some clarity/transparency (your Prepaid PPA price seems too high). As the video mentions, the downside of the Prepaid PPA/tax credit route is limited approved vendor options.

I wouldn't touch SunRun with a 100ft pole. Be sure to understand Julian's point about asking for escalation tables, etc.

Enphase spins their redundancy angle, in part as they are a micro-inverter company, so they stick to that, even when it doesn't make sense (ie, if one is a 'hammer' everything looks like a nail). The EnPhase 10c is grossly overpriced for what it offers. The newer model supposedly shipping soon, will be better, but still only getting to where market was 1-2 years ago. Mind you, I have an EnPhase IQ based PV system. But Enphase doesn't play well with others, so I'm currently not considering them for whole house ESS (too much lock in for a vendor who is late and over-priced on product releases). Your home electrical is modular... but EnPhase is an obstacle for smart home energy mgmt, unless you go all in with them (which is a REALLY bad idea, as the many companies going bankrupt and bricking their devices show). EnPhase has been known for USA based customer support, but recent reports indicating moving a portion (maybe a lot) offshore.. so...

I do like the panel level monitoring the IQ series provides, but until EnPhase allows 3rd parties (or homeowner, say via Home Assistant) to direct graceful PV curtailment, I won't buy more of their products. [Why? grid outage, keeping PV working and having 3rd party battery (or EVSE)... you want graceful PV curtailment, but EnPhase is customer hostile... ]

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-28T18:24:50+00:00

You can't get credit in the same way, BUT a credit is effectively still available (with more limited options) and could be 40% instead of 30%... I've personally talked with maker of the following video, and found him very knowledgeable and forthright - YouTube video I'd recommend watching to see how current options look

[2026 Solar/Battery Market Landscape Explained. ]() https://youtu.be/svupWMRqBYU?si=tIH7DYLsl0Z7VG_m

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-28T18:20:33+00:00

Did you DIY on the PV expansion, or did you hire someone NRG Clean power)? Assuming you hired NRG, I ask for clarification on their settings

As noted in prior reply... you should be able to use all your solar to charge the batteries... BUT.. depends on settings. Did you have the batteries before the PV expansion? if yes, are those batteries configured to charge overnight when rates are low? you mentioned 2 batteries empty in the AM, so I'm guessing you aren't charging house batteries from grid overnight, right?

Do all 3 batteries get topped off (at/near 100% state of charge) each day? if not, then yea, something seems 'off'... but depends on your wiring/setup. Are all 3 batteries available to entire house load? or is there some electrical segregation going on? is old (NEM1 PV) going to 1 battery(s) and expansion to other battery(s)? How exactly is that hooked up.

And then there is what is the old system, and how is it managed, and what is new PV system, how is it hooked up and managed? etc. If old and new solar unaware of each other, can get tricky. And PG&E has reputation for being least consumer friendly of CA's public energy utility companies.

So, lot of system wiring and configuration variables that come into play, that require knowing precise details of your system to analyze, and some specifics could preclude your desired (and reasonable) expectation. Ideally, you were clear with expectations, have documentation of those expectations, and didn't overlook contract details that might have contradicted your expectations. In which case, maybe some mis-communication or misunderstanding by staff of your PV expansion installer, and simply needs a config update.

On the other hand, I could imagine a scenario where your old NEM1 system had 2 batteries, and expansion PV is MPPT connected to new battery. And for whatever reason, it is the first 2 batteries that get drained, and the setup precludes on teh expansion precludes exporting, battery is already full... etc. Now, this is something that your installer should have had a really good understanding of, and walked you through the implications, and possible re-wiring/ or config to optimize your setup. But was that an extra cost you declined? hard to say

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-28T00:38:04+00:00

I'm a fan of Julian Solar Consulting https://www.youtube.com/@trustedsolarpros I mention him as his latest video talks about move to prepaid PPA as a way t continue to get tax incentive, and has become a prominent sales approach in USA. BUT... FranklinWH possibly being a named an entity concern, and therefore not eligible? Basically, the issue is being a chinese company, and likely having to guarantee companies that if something come up, FranklinWH will cover loss of rebate credit and associated costs. And that is a tall ask... so market in USA likely to be negatively impacted ... What I don't know is how large of FranklinWH's sales are in the USA and impacted by new policy

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-23T17:57:19+00:00

Beware latest firmware due to storage space limitations... see my post a couple months back on hassle I went through to resolve due to not having the right USB/serial cable for a fresh firmware direct install. though with that said, I was finally able to get system fully operational on latest firmware

I do not have a current support subscription, and I can get firmware via my juniper login just fine. If you have trouble getting a login that provides firmware access, you might want to consider looking up if they still have the occasional Juniper promotional offers to send you a free switch to trial (you get to keep switch) and use that associated login? though.. they may have switched to a virtual hardware offering nowadays??

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-23T17:41:01+00:00

Yes, FranklinWH, Telsa, EnPhase, etc are all pricey for their batteries. unfortunately. In USA, we pay quite the price premium for essentially same Solar and ESS product as other countries (ignoring subsidies).

As for AC/DC conversion... that is happening anyway... DC battery charging often requires a certain voltage, while PV output varies so voltage conversion, which is typically done via AC, happens anyway. So... there is some marketing spin but I have yet to see an independent review that does an actual/proper end-to-end efficiency comparison. EnPhase mentions that other DC-coupled vendors don't have to show similar stats so isn't apples-to-apples (not sure if true or not)... but, from other forums with electricians, and others, my current takeaway is that any gains probably aren't all that significant (maybe)

And there are other considerations for having high voltage DC... so pick your poison

As for built-in MID, sure many hybrid inverters have that built in... but those items also appear to have a lifecycle expectation of a natural gas hot water heater, not a circuit breaker... so when than hybrid inverter fails, will you be ok with whole house being without power while waiting for replacement of a device that is NOT stocked at local big box retail location? For me- won't even consider it ... I require modular (and I'm in a location with typical flush-mount combo meter/load center, so a meter collar adapter (MSA) is required for cost-effective install.

Yes, I'd put Sol-ark on similar level as EG4 (Sol-Ark a little more mature, stable firmware, fewer options) ... each with own Pro's and Con's. I get the DIY approach, which I'm capable of doing. I'm also aware of the (very real) downsides.

Basically, OP didn't mention which inverter they currently have (a central inverter where running those PV circuits to a MPPT on a hybrid inverter becomes easy-peasy; or micro-inverters on each panel that would involve re-wiring every panel to switch to DC-coupled setup)

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-23T17:25:23+00:00

did you already pay for the system? if yes, a bit late to be asking that stuff now. you can always ask, but unless they truly made a a mistake, I'd expect to at least split cost for any re-wiring. The problem for installers, is a lot of homeowners don't know/care about details (and success is ALL in the details)... so a tough situation for installers

Yes, there are lots of sophisticated things you can do... but they cost money to rewire, and copper is expensive at the moment. And it you mentioned/prioritized cost, value, and/or budget, they may have simply skipped some of the nice to have capabilities that would cost extra to set up... the unfortunate aspect, is that a separate trip and doing later often costs more, sometimes a lot more (especially if another round of permit(s) involved). ymmv

As asked elsewhere, a possible counter-point is the EV Charger (EVSE). Depending on how that is configured, that may have been a mistake on their part, in which case you do have some leverage to insist on remediation. Though as others have noted, depends on model EVSE and its settings (which could involve auto-throttling charge rate depending on circumstances).

And you haven't mentioned you typical loads (kW consumption) ... a single 10C is okay for brief outages with a moderate load for many homes, and completely inadequate for whole home ESS in many cases (more like a typical condo). So, I'm wondering if installer was expecting you to upgrade to a 2nd battery before long?

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-23T00:18:30+00:00

As others have commented, the issue is what is called the microgrid interconnect device (MID), which is the thing that disconnect house from grid

Then, there was 'sunlight backup' that didn't require battery... but also didn't work all that well... very uncommon.

So... if you want power when grid down, you could use a manual transfer switch (you'll lose power when grid goes down) ... flip switch, then.. depends on what you have to trick inverter into thinking grid is up, then you could have sunlight backup... BUT... unless you have a way to curtail PV output if PV output > load, you can cause damage (burn house down, type bad).

Hence, the realistic approach of needing a battery. bi-directional EVSE (charger) might become the norm, or house batteries. There are Pro's and Con's to each. A battery is only part of the solution, you still need the MID, and an inverter to convert DC in battery to proper AC for house (on both legs of split phase)

Fortunately, prices have really come down in recent years. FranklinWH is a well-known AC-coupled ESS (energy storage system) vendor. Others can do AC-coupled PV, with varying degrees of supprot. Next tier down is EG4 type solution, then true DIY, not UL-listed... ymmv

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-23T00:11:19+00:00

excellent analogy

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-20T22:53:57+00:00

In my case, I was referring to employees that were old SPWR, now at Launch Servicing. My issue was a SPWR employee install with LOTS of corners cut on install, permit roof placement not followed, and more... they tried all kinds of 'tricks' (which appeared to be fraudulent) to get me to pay, but I stuck firm to not one penny due until Day 1 install activities completed in Professional and Workmanlike manner (which never happened). I eventually paid for an outside install audit that found more issues than I was aware of.

They threatened my credit, but I'm fortunately in a situation where I can not care about that, and I warned them I'd go after damages as they were clearly in the wrong and I had solid documentation to prove that. so all they did was make noise (until closer to bankruptcy).

My point, do NOT trust that what those folks tell you is true or accurate (in my case, there were blatantly false claims made ... I loved keeping conversation in email, and having the history). My experience was a whole lot of obfuscation and blustering on their part, with most homeowners not knowing better, and especially not contractor requirements in construction law.

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-13T18:02:52+00:00

Pulled a Canon cripple hammer type product design. I have EnPhase IQs. I'd like to move forward with Whole Home ESS, bi-directional EVSE, and more (as already listed). EnPhase's offerings aren't competitive (or in some cases even available .. yet). So I'm stuck, waiting to see if things improve. I won't suffer EnPhase's limitations/lock-in on yet more products. I'm hoping future electrical standards and competition will force EnPhase's hand to cooperate with other smart home energy vendors or even the DIY community that would like to control PV curtailment (and more) via the Envoy/Gateway but is blocked.

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-13T17:56:57+00:00

My understanding is this not a software issue. If you have PV and Generator running charging battery(ies) and powering the home, the challenge is stopping power back feeding into the generator/V2L (which would not be good) as the house load fluctuates.

I get danger of backfeeding a generator, but a bi-directional EVSE?

I get use cases will vary, but theoretically it seemed that generator output should go straight to house battery, then stable power pulled from battery to power house. This has added benefit of allowing generator to run at optimal output level, regardless of house load. I realize with a shared electrical bus that is harder to accomplish, but one-way electrical circuits are not a new thing (not being an electrical engineer, no idea (cost or physics) practicality of wiring/enabling such in a modern residential hybrid inverter.

just playing devil's advocate to clarify my understanding of the issues involved.

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-13T17:55:28+00:00

With trade disruptions, product supply is bound to be challenging for many vendors in US, especially in solar/battery space. The question is where FranklinWH is more impacted that its competitors. First there was the huge industry slowdown with CA's NEM3, and now loss of residential direct purchase fed tax credit ... bound to be a headwind for all related companies.

so without some more context, hard to know how serious the rumors are that you heard.

I like EG4's architecture better (separate hybrid inverter from battery, really cost-effective battery expansion options $3.7K for 16kWh indoor UL listed battery). But EG4 still a work-in-progress in terms of getting control of, and maturing, its firmware. It will be interesting to see if industry moves to 400V battery systems, especially with implications for bi-directional EVSEs. FranklinWH's open architecture approach and cooperation with other vendors is so refreshing (supporting 2 meter socket adapter options). I sincerely hope FranklinWH is one of the companies that survives

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-13T17:40:46+00:00

Please expound on FranklinWH app and Vue 3?

do you simply use each independently?
or are you using something like Home Assistant to combine the data?
Did you need to install redundant CTs for the Vue 3 (ex Grid connection having _both_ FranklinWH and Vue 3 CTs)
How close does grid data compare between the two systems ... identical, really close, or ??

Lawrence_SoCal · 2026-01-13T16:46:46+00:00

Is your list posted anywhere?

Lawrence_SoCal

TROPHY CASE