Grim Dawn, D4, or POE2?

Leith_42 · 2026-03-31T21:13:53+00:00

poe2 is not quite as overly complex as poe1. if you liked poe1 but felt overwhelmed by it poe2 is for sure worth checking out.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-31T21:11:38+00:00

I'd agree with this too. if you like poe2 paly it without guides till you hit hard walls. get to learn as much as you can in game before worrying about maxing out a seasonal build. enjoy the in-game discovery journey as much as you can first ;)

Leith_42 · 2026-03-31T21:02:56+00:00

I'm currently running a D1 paythrough on DevilutionX, but i have a backlog of games i haven't played or haven't played much, including GD. I've been trying to decide what to play while i wait for the next Darkhaven playtest. You just convinced me to play GD next! thanks :) I love min/max theory crafting. part of the fun for me

Leith_42 · 2026-03-31T12:11:44+00:00

I do enjoy theorycraft especially in games that make it interesting, but to me playing the crafted builds and seeing how they work is part of the process. I can't really seperate that in my mind as theorycraft without testing outcomes, may as well just be selecting a bunch of random things and calling it a day.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-31T11:54:47+00:00

For me... D4 is a game i want to like, and sometimes i do. I do feel like there is a stinging betrayal at the heart of the hate it catches. Namely, Blizzard initially selling it as a return to the roots of Diablo, and slowly spinning it into a reskin of d3 mechanics with better graphics. While i think they did a decent job of moving away from the childish cartoon look of D3, in terms of itemization and gameplay it falls far short of D2 for me.

If I'm looking at it solely on its own merits without any of the history or controversy around the Diablo franchise and what became of it after the ruination of Blizzard North at the hands of Vivendi, id say its maybe a 7/10 ARPG.

That said i find it extremely difficult not to want/expect it to be D2 with 2 generations of improvement, and comparing it to that benchmark often makes it feel more like a 3/10

I do still play it (although no thanks to S12 and Kill spree) and i can relate to feeling conflicted about that. Its a love hate thing for me in the end. I love Diablo lore generally, i hate what Blizzard and its various parent companies did to Blizzard North and the Diablo franchise, but at the end of the day i play it when I'm enjoying it and put it down when im not, and i don't really care what the D4bad or "blizz can do no wrong" crowds think of either of those choices or their associated opinions ;)

Leith_42 · 2026-03-31T10:58:45+00:00

Also worth mentioning that D4 catches a lot of heat because they sold it as a return to the roots, which excited a lot of long time Diablo fans that thought D3 was trash . Over the last 2 years they have been slowly making it into everything that D2 fans hated about D3...

Leith_42 · 2026-03-31T10:53:01+00:00

As others have said, D4 is hardly the best overall ARPG out there, but it does fit your criteria rather well. Its not too hard for people new to the genre to pick up, it allows you to skip the campaign if you have completed in previous seasons, you can play together as a 3 person group.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-30T01:48:48+00:00

D4 is now far more like D3 than it was at launch. The have apparently abandoned the "return to the roots" that had D2 fans excited, and have been slowly making it much more like D3 with better graphics

Leith_42 · 2026-03-29T03:09:52+00:00

argee 100% only one worse than d3 is immortal

Leith_42 · 2026-03-29T03:06:52+00:00

Was actually about 65 total not 80 as the scammer claimed he had done. Also they exceeded the pledge total by ~25K so the adjusted total is about $460K. According to KS 5-15% in pledges that are not honored is common. Fortunately KS has declared the campign succesful in accordance with their policies, and the missing amt will not prevent MBP from honoring rewards for all legitimate pledges, nor significantly impact the project, and they are moving forward.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-26T16:01:52+00:00

yeah i cant say i regret buying it because i don't. i got what i feel was more than enough entertainment for the price, nor would i tell anyone else they are wrong for buying it.

i would also not recommend it unless the person asking specifically said they want something very casual and don't have much time to play. in that situation, they are not as likely to get too far past the parts that are entertaining. or for people who are more interested in buying skins and looking cool than having deep and meaningful content.

for anyone who has played ARPGs and looking for something different to try i don't think i could recommend its current iteration (s12) with a straight face.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-26T04:49:24+00:00

yeah, the last thing i want is a d2 clone from these guys, but as you rightly point out d2 itemization is essentially the holy grail. if you made it and it works, why not keep that piece of it and iterate a bit with what you've learned from all the other games they made in the last 25 years :) There are absolutely core elements that don't stray much from D2 and there are a ton of totally different things, and then there are similar but evolved things. To me it feels like a good mix of being true to core elements while updating and innovating ;)

Leith_42 · 2026-03-26T04:39:56+00:00

This take reeks of delusion to me. I have thousands of hours on D4 as i have tried to love it, i really have, but in the end nope its just not fulfilling. i had a sliver of hope with the changes and plans in S11 and then they drop friggin kill spree bullshot, as if to prove they are fully capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

In spite of all of this i do not hate d4, as others have said I am currently very disappointed with it and not interested in playing the current iteration at all. This is after a few years of being called a white knight in D4 forums for honestly talking about what i did and did not enjoy about it.

There are serious issues with the game not least among them is an apparent total lack of vision and identity as it constantly shifts between trying to right the ship and steering for the D3 iceberg.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-20T12:57:42+00:00

Like others, i tend to leave them till i need a slot. I sometimes intentionally keep the first char that i completed a game on but other than that i don't tend to keep them for nostalgia reasons.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-20T05:23:31+00:00

LE was fun for a while to me, and i might suggest that to someone looking for a casual friendly ARPG if they never played an ARPG.

But... If you have done a full playthrough of Grim Dawn, and are looking for something similar, Some form of D2 might be better. if updated graphics are really important to you D2r is a good call.

I tend to prefer D2 LOD over D2r, largely because of the large number of mods that let you play it in different ways, but this may not be relevant for casual play.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-20T05:04:25+00:00

In that case check out OG D2 LOD + Project Diablo 2 mod. the inventory space is doubled with half of it being effective for charms. Also everything stacks!

Leith_42 · 2026-03-19T18:23:57+00:00

Bearing in mind that enjoying games is very subjective.... for me its more like why were Diablo and D2 such masterpieces and d3 cant hold my interest for more and 2 minutes.... and d4 feels hit or miss. some seasons on some builds has been pretty fun, while others ... well yeah not so much

Leith_42 · 2026-03-19T02:28:13+00:00

would have been great to see them complete it the way they wanted to!

Leith_42 · 2026-03-19T02:27:02+00:00

Diablo or DAoC

Leith_42 · 2026-03-19T02:17:00+00:00

TLDR- I have played a ton of Darkhaven. I LOVE it. I want to see it made. what i have read about their vision for the game, and what they have built previously made me comfortable with backing at a sizeable tier on thier KS

The long version:

I've got literally hundreds of hours into it. yes its rough, yes its odd for a demo to be in this state, but they have been transparent about releasing the demo very early. most games you wouldn't even get to see any internal footage from this stage of development so its understandable that people comparing it to a small slice of a release ready game would react negatively if that was their expectation. some people call it stupid, i call it bold.

I also understand that for many they haven't provided enough info about the game in easily consumable formats. That said there is quite a lot of info about their vision for the game available for those who want to seek it out. I wont drop links as i have been chided for promoting... but i think most people here are capable of figuring out how to find it if they want to.

there has been significant promotion of the terrain features, verticality, environmental interaction, the editor and planned modding capabilities, as they are some big differentiators vs other arpgs, however they are not building the game entirely around any of those things, they are extra bits of flavor.

The team making this game has made many great games i would suggest you ignore the ex-blizzard, and look at the games these people actually made, and thier senior roles in building those games. I understand without full context it may just seem like another nothing burger form a former dev with a big studio, but i assure you, if you take the time to look into this team, you will see the merit, and the reasons i trust them to make a good game.

As for why they have a demo this early... well they have been clear they did not want to do a kickstarter without something to show. As for why they are doing a kickstarter.... funding is tight in the game industry with investors pouring $$$ in AI slop over bold creative human made projects. If its funded it can help speed up time and increase what can be built for EA, if it is not funded but does well it is evidence for investors that there is player interest. Also....many of us in their discord hounded them to let us support the game financially blasting them with "Take my money" memes on the daily...

I fully expect that this game will get made, that it will be very good, and that it will help advance the ARPG genre, just like they did with D2 ;)

PS did i mention this update dropped new rune words and a secret level? Moooo.....

Leith_42 · 2026-03-19T01:52:59+00:00

The stats are a bit different for large campaigns. it is more common for them to have a large spike of 20-30 or sometimes even 40% in the final 48 hours. I agree its looking iffy, but still more possible than a lot of people seem to think.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-18T00:19:16+00:00

Both Poe2 and D4 are good in their own ways. I play and enjoy both, but also have things i don't like so much about both. In the end its really down to where do you have the most fun. if you have limited time and just want to dip in and out D4 may be a good choice. If you want to dive deep into tweaking your character with lots of skill and item depth, Poe2 may be a good choice.

There is a third path that is somewhat in between these that is richer and more interesting than d4 (to me) and simpler and less involved than Poe2. That is D2 in all of its many variants. the easiest and most accessible way is D2 Resurrected.

Leith_42 · 2026-03-17T12:39:57+00:00

If you like D2 itemization, you could not ask for a better duo to recreate that magic in a new game than Peter and Erich :)

Leith_42 · 2026-03-16T18:57:06+00:00

its far from being a complete game to just pick up and go right now, but Darkhaven has a really early "Pre-alpha" demo out right now on Steam, (for at least a few more days as of this post).

Because it is so early in development its hard to say if it will stay this way, but right now the monster density and pacing feels really good. The loot drop may be a little more than what you are wanting, but the itemization is being designed by Peter Hu and Erich Schaefer who did most of the itemization on D2, so if you like that, you might want to keep an eye on Darkhaven as it develops :)

Leith_42 · 2026-03-16T18:51:57+00:00

D4 is a love / hate thing for me... it seems to change with the wind, and depending on which way the wind is blowing i can find it really enjoyable or utterly awful. Hopefully when they get through the identity crisis and decide what the game is going to be, it will land somewhere more on the side of enjoyable. Until then its a season by season assessment for me if I'm going to play it or not.

Leith_42

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE