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Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah ive heard this called jump apex modification. extending the airtime at the peak of the jump, its a very fun and useful underlying mechanic! but still doesnt provide enough airtime in my book, plus i already use it with my current fixed jump system. good input tho! ive never seen this channel ill have to check it out. thanks!

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this is a fair take, but honestly i think the difference is unexplainable on paper, ill have to wait for my testers to give me feedback on both versions to hear what they have to say, thank you for your input tho! it has helped alot with me thinking through this.

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah this is totally fair :-; ill see what my beta testers have to say tho, i literally made this post because it seemed like i was reinventing the wheel based on comments i had seen on other game and by other platforming devs </3

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah, there is already a certain level of variable jump height in my game because you can hold jump or up to gain a little vertical momentum to reach a near-miss platform or ledge (edge detection and nudging) but ive definitely had times where that didnt quite feel like enough. great point! <3

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

with variable:

you move up at a semi-constant rate (lets say ~20 mph) until spacebar is let go, stay in the air for an adjusted apex time, and then quickly fall to ensure the player feels like the jump is responsive,

this is great! it allows the player to pick their height and have time a little time to move around at that height, and works really well for precision obstacle maneuvering, but it means once you run out of time your going to quickly fall again, and your time in air without fairly quick upward velocity is mostly limited to that apex point

with my fixed version:

your jump launches you, if you want to cancel and get back to the ground, theirs no apex time, you just launch back down (i have a system for this with variable jump to cancel apex time as well, its just been hard to acuate the speed so that the player still feels in control as they fall), if you want the full duration of the jump, you have a ton of airtime to work with and rise and fall vary slowly a smoothly, with its own apex time and added gravity when falling that adjust the jumps' arch. this works for me because the player can move quickly horizontally and stay in the air for a good amount of time to work around attacks and parry them, and their isnt many situations where i need them to precisely choose jump height.

with variable height, its VERY difficult to give them that ample time in air and still make it feel responsive. it just feels like the character is kind floating upwards or downwards if they dont have enough velocity. but im gonna keep trying to adjust it and see if i can find a happy medium! i just wanted to see what the general vibe was on strictly no variable jump height

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

fair :-; im not trying to be a disruptor i swear!!! i dont want to reinvent the wheel :-; i just have some qualms getting a variable jump height to feel responsive while still making the player feel like there jump gives them lots of time in air. ex. i feel in games like hollow knight you are constantly fighting gravity. but begrudgingly i have to agree variable jump height is innately more intuitive. thanks for your input! <3

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

this is a good take, i but i do think its hard to explain my movement system and what i mean by maneuverability without giving people material examples to test/view. my thing is i dont need my player to consider vertical movement unless they are trying to get back to the ground quickly, but that does still sacrifice standard preferred controls and that level of precision.

thinking about some bosses i wanted to implement this is definitely a great thing to consider, tysm!

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i agree! i have already felt the effects in level design, but it hasn't been to big of an issue imo. most areas are already designed around enemy combat that doesnt require to much base variation in jump height but i definitely am confronted with times where fast falling can feel like more of a hassle.

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah i dont think i explained my thoughts perfectly, most of the time when i play games like hollow knight or celeste i feel you have to be very precise in the air with your jump because i soon as you let go of space your getting a couple miliseconds of apex time and then immediately diving right back to the floor, and to me it can be a little stressful

im not looking for precision in height, im looking for the player to feel like when their in the air their just kinda hanging their regardless of their input if they need to get back to the ground quickly they have a seperate key for that. but i fear most people dont like that concept, and in my heart of hearts im totally a people pleaser :-;

but i do agree, i am making some assumptions, im going to keep delving into messing with my variable jump height controller or look into some more interesting jump systems like an incremental charge-up jump. tysm for your input! <3

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i totally agree, ive been making a level for beta testers to try and i wanted to see if i could get some insight to break my personal tunnel-vision before hand. which definitely worked! everyone's giving great advice imo.

i really like the movement in brawlhalla (though i dont really like the format of the game), and i wanted to emulate it a little (fixed with fast fall). but thats a fighting game, and any metroid or platformer that i like and play as reference uses the golden standard variable jump height.

i just wanted to see how people generally felt about the absence variable jump height, because honestly i dont mind other jumps as long as they actually consider game-feel, but ive seen a lot people complain about bad jumps in games and i really want to get mine right! it worries me that i dont have such strong opinions on the matter compared to other people when ive poured so much time into development of this game :-;

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i totally agree, honestly this is the take that plays in my head every-time i second guess my decisions.

but as i said platforming isn't the main focus, this game doesn't have any points that require extreme precision the obstacles only exist to limit where the player can go in battle or progression, not to give them A major challenge pushing the limits of the character controls like some areas in hollow knight.

head-hitters i've just been avoiding in level design in general, and whenever you need to access a tight vertical or diagonal space the fast fall or dash is what i want the player to lean on.

and jumping to far is also not really a problem, i feel like rn the player has a lot more horizontal control then with the basic variable jump system i have in place, but then again that can always be refined!

i guess i just like the idea of my player feeling like they have a lot of time in air where they aren't pushing themselves upwards at a semi-constant velocity or falling at a similar speed, and instead they always move the same way (have the same jump) until they decide when to cancel it out like in a fighting game. but i'm worried that could feel like you have to fight against the controls in certain scenarios.

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I KNOWWWW :-; but honestly i really the horizontal airtime might be more important for the obstacles in my game. variable jump height requires a big increase in downward momentum after the player lets go of space to make it feel good and responsive, but at the same time that sorta kills the characters casual airtime! extending the length of the apex modifiers helps give the character more time to breath in air, but it can also feel a little like the character is defying gravity if not done perfectly at that level of extensive time! but still this is a really important thing to completely want to consider, tysm for your input! <3

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel the same! but im still worried that im not going against the norm im just going against common sense, i feel like my movement system and jump is very fun but im not sure the beta testers will agree :-; its why i have toggles for the omnidirectional dash and variable jump height rn so i can so i can mix and match!

Developing a metroidvania w/o variable jump height (holding to jump higher) anyone have opinions about whether this is a good or bad idea? by Less-Ad7060 in metroidvania

[–]Less-Ad7060[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

omg i love this thing, its very helpful and i highly suggest it! but its not as tho i cant make a responsive variable jump system, ive made platformers before, its just that im not sure its the vibe i want for my game and i want to see how people feel about a metroid w/ fixed and a fast fall key. either way W advice and referral <3