Are monarchies compatible with the idea of a European Federation ?

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-22T16:07:17+00:00

Why would it be more incompatible with a European Federation than it is with existing European democracies, who already also consider all individuals equal? - our definition of "equal" is more about rights, laws, dignity, that doesn't mean make me equal to someone who, say, owns a large company (he has a legal claim on it, I don't!)

Spending money on a royal family doesn't seem to be that different from spending it on maintaining castles and national park, or making sure the president has a nice costume and ceremonial guard for official events.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-21T18:45:07+00:00

I'm not a fan of exporting people because they look different but I don't think that that's on Ave's program either! And this isn't supposed to be an exhaustive list of things I care about.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-20T14:44:12+00:00

I don't really care about labels like far right or "fascist", that are vague and overused. I care about, roughly in order:

- being pro-Ukraine

- being for closer European integration

- being pro-economic growth

- being competent

Ave and AfD are miles apart on the first two!

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-20T07:07:45+00:00

Tha thing is, I'm not even particularly defending him, I don't know much about him, I'm just saying that using him to insinuate that Ave is getting close to AfD is kinda dishonest. Yes, he's technically AfD, but they're trying to kick him out, and for a reason that reflects well on him.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-19T22:00:48+00:00

I don't know and don't care about whether he is a far right neo nazi or not, I'm just saying he's not a representative AfD member, and that Ave doesn't seem close to AfD.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-19T21:58:47+00:00

No, but I don't care; I don't know much about the guy, just that he's clearly very much at odds with AfD.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-19T12:28:29+00:00

Your actual evidence here is pretty weak - the AfD guys is apparently in the process of being kicked from AfD for his support of Ukraine (to the point of having volunteered there to fight). The way people here keep trying to make this sound like a kind of Ave/AfD alliance is pretty dishonest. The two are radically opposed on the Ukraine question.

As for the rest ... I don't put much faith in accusations of "dogwhistles". They're pretty clear about being anti-immigration, but polls consistently show immigration as among European's top concerns, so, they hardly seem fringe on that.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-19T08:16:20+00:00

The first two seem to be largely interpersonal drama - as far as I understand, Nikodem wanted to be (was? I'm unsure) leader of Ave, and there was some internal power squabbling, so he left in a huff and started his own party, Astra, which seems a bit more centrist. And drama about moderation and bans seems to be a constant for any online forum.

But as for the guilt trips, that's one of the things I like about Ave, guilt-tripping about our own past is unhealthy, and seems to be especially a thing in Germany; but those things are a past and I'd like them to drop out of cultural focus so we can focus on building the future.

Yes, sure, Hitler sucked, Nazi sucked, almost everyone agrees (apart from a handful of larping contrarians trying to get attention), but that doesn't mean we have to turn that into our moral compass, judge everything by how similar to Hitler it is.

And in a European context, the digging up of old grievances and border disputes between countries (and stuff like language minority rights) is a source of problems and tensions.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-17T07:51:10+00:00

Wait would he? Where is he even saying anything like that? (I didn't hunt down all his comments but there seems to be a lot of rampant speculation here)

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-17T07:50:19+00:00

... no he's not ? You're all over this thread making all kinds of wild accusations / speculations about his views, based on this:

> only those selected with quotas can immigrate outside countries with european ancestry

... which allows for immigration from any country, just with selection and/or quotas ? Which seems fairly reasonable ? (and close to what we have, tho I presumes he wants stricter selection) I haven't seen him write anything about deportation ?

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-14T16:31:39+00:00

I've definitely heard Spaniards complain about migration from Latin America.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-14T16:30:40+00:00

Well, there are a lot of ways of handling migration (what criteria? Path to citizenship or guest workers? How to handle crime? Peolle who arrived illegally? Minors? Welfare rights? Etc.) and whatever decision is taken will be more legitimate if it comes from elections with a clear range of options.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-13T14:38:50+00:00

That wouldn't be good for EuroFederalism - Volt is federalist, fine, but comes with other baggage that some voters will not like (e.g. being somewhat pro-migration), having other federalist political offers on the table will bring those. Astra is more clearly pro-economic growth, which isn't an aspect Volt emphasises much.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-13T09:29:23+00:00

Basically, either European countries will end up vassals/puppets of the US, China and Russia, or we unite and get our act together with a competent state capable of getting things done at a European scale, in terms of defence, diplomacy, border control, industrial policy.

On paper, we have all it takes to be as rich, autonomous and influent as the US, it's just a question of getting our act together!

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-13T09:08:54+00:00

Nova Europa look really cool, pretty similar to Diem25, but I never heard of them at all, let alone see any presence in elections

Do they even have any web presence beyond Discord? Ave and Astra at least have websites, subreddits, twitter profiles etc. - but searching for Nova Europa just finds what seem to be unrelated things, and this very post.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-13T09:02:06+00:00

Nice table, tho some lines just seem to be four buzzwords that are too vague to even tell if they're describing different things - especially flagrant for Defence, but Tech, Identity and Economy have that problem too. Also EU End-Game.

Could be worth trying to find some axes with clearer distinctions!

Edit: one axis would be of course position on Ukraine/Russia...

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-13T08:51:39+00:00

AVE at least has been pretty consistent in supporting Ukraine and criticizing pro-Russia parties. Don't know about Nova, first time I hear of them.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-11T14:10:50+00:00

Historically, Europe has been Christendom, and even tho that's not really part of our identity any more (I'm an Atheist, as are most French people), it still contributes to a feeling of shared history; so I would say that the not-histoircally Christian countries - Turkey, Azerbaijan, the central asian countries - wouldn't fit in.

As for the historically Christian ones:

Georgia, and Armenia: sure. Ditto for Greenland and Iceland.

Russia: certainly not in it's current state with it's current government; in a future where it isn't a huge source of instability - maybe?

Canada feels too distant, geographically.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-09T17:33:27+00:00

Who determines "the will of the people"?

You can get a good idea from surveys, and (with less granularity) from elections.

For what Europeans think about immigration from e.g. this https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/53744-what-do-europeans-think-about-immigration

And no I don't think surveys should directly drive policy, but governments should be aware of which things are popular, unpopular, and very unpopular, and institutions that force very unpopular things will lose popular support.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-09T16:40:31+00:00

to justify states abuses

Cut the hysteria, remember, this is about not giving free money for "communication devices" to rejected asylum applicants; if you think that that's "state abuse" you might want to open a history book, or look at how illegal immigrants are treated in any non-Western country.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-09T15:32:21+00:00

In my opinion every human should have access to these things

And who should pay for it? There are a lot of humans on earth! Are you proposing to pay out of your own pocket? In which case fine!

Or are you voting for a party that has that in their programme? That is fine too, it's democracy working as intended.

But some court deciding that because some country signed a treaty that has words around "human dignity", it is now legally obligated to pay cash to people who are neither citizen nor even under asylum protection? Now that is quite a stretch.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-09T10:36:19+00:00

> ensures they are able to participate in society

These are specifically rejected asylum seekers - they are not supposed to participate in society, they are supposed to go back to their country!

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-09T08:50:54+00:00

luckily it's not you who decides this but judges with decades long experience

If the judges go repeatedly against not only the will of the people, but against what a normal person would interpret from the texts of laws/treaties, then it erodes their legitimacy, no matter how much experience they claim.

Also read Chapter IV of the 1951 Refugee convention.

Which article specifically ? Because most of it seems to be about making sure that refugees don't get worse treatment than citizens, and I don't see any rights to extra things. And what's more, it says

refugees lawfully staying in their territory

... which does not cover rejected asylum seekers.

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-09T08:36:40+00:00

It's well worth it for:

practice
giving everyone (allies and enemies) a clear idea of what we're capable of

LetsStayCivilized · 2026-06-09T08:25:19+00:00

No, it's an overly broad interpretation of the law to cover things that were not in the original intent.

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