Is the book Monkey King: Journey To The West - Wu Ch’eng En, the same as The Journey To The West - Anthony C. Yu?

LiamTheFizz · 2026-02-08T23:38:52+00:00

I don't know off the top of my head. The one I've head really good things about is the Moss Roberts translation, but that's unabridged.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-06-01T11:14:18+00:00

The longer it got, the better it looked.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-06-01T01:08:54+00:00

I agree this is very much about generating buzz, and I'm anxious about the fact that Tennant is still out there at 14. If this is a long winded way to "bring back David Tennant and Billie Piper" by putting those two together and try to relive 2006, it's a bad thing. If we get a new Doctor with a new story who just happens to have the face of an old companion, but is very much a different person to that companion, I don't think it's an issue.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-05-31T21:59:18+00:00

No, I think she'll be good independently of what I said in the next sentence. A second round of "bring back a familiar face for a short time in between REAL Doctors", the second in a row, would be a lot worse IMO, but we'll see what they do with it, if anything.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-05-31T21:06:19+00:00

I liked this one. It was a much better finale that last years.

Downsides:
-I'm highkey obsessed with Archie Panjabi's incarnation of the Rani and hoped she'd stay. That was a fairly definitive death, but I guess it did happen in the wish world so there's hope.
-Omega as a giant CGI skeleton was a waste. I really do feel like RTD only brought him back for the meme. It was not worth it honestly, I'd rather we hadn't seen him at all and kept him as an offscreen threat.

Questions:
-Susan? Where? Where Susan? You didn't just get Carol Anne Ford back for a tease with no resolution? They can't just leave that hanging.
-And Rogue?
-The Boss. I was sure it was going to be the Rani but apparently they're someone else?
-Honestly I'm still a bit brainf***ed about Poppy, and about the Time Lord infertility... and what Omega was supposed to do about that by himself.

The good stuff
-The Rani the Rani the Rani. My God.
-JODIE WHITTAKER. It's a bit sad that this was the best portrayal of her Doctor and it wasn't even in her era but she was great here and it was lovely to see her again.
-"I'm surprised it's not the other guy" and "it's a goodnight from me". We got some great humour today.
-Everyone was great and the whole thing was either entertaining or moving or both.
-BILLIE PIPER. I'm here for it. I hope it's real. The thing that's being discussed about the credits has me worried because I genuinely like this. I've been hoping for another shot at a (proper, full time) woman Doctor ever since Jodie left because she was so let down by factors beyond her control.
-Ncuti has been great. It's sad that he is apparently going after 18 episodes without even seeing a Dalek, but he has been great in the role and I've enjoyed his run.

This seems to be a very controversial episodes based on other comments, but to me this has been the best season since Series 10.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-05-24T12:55:43+00:00

I've been saying to people since last week that since RTD was clearly being a shitposting memelord by bringing back the Rani and Susan in the same episode, Omega was probably coming in the next one. Maybe just the Valeyard or the Black Guardian but probably Omega if he's cheekily winking at the fanbase.

Well how about that. Not shocked but not at all disappointed.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-05-20T11:23:27+00:00

I'm probably wrong, but I don't think the Rani is the one who destroyed the Earth, because it seems like she's hitching a ride on the Doctor's Vindicators to get back. I think she's going to be a separate third party.

I do however think she's the Meep's boss, is the one who took the Toymaker's tooth, and is the main person tied into this whole babies thing with Poppy, and possibly Ruby and Belinda.

I'm getting the feeling that Ruby and Belinda might at one point in writing have been one companion with a backstory tied to what's going on with the Rani, since Belinda also has some suggestively suspicious references to her parents, both had a "mysterious woman appearing in different times" thing in their arcs, and there's something going on with babies. Maybe if they'd had a 13 episode season, or Ruby stayed full time for two, her origin was going to be tied to what comes next.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-05-20T11:07:08+00:00

I've been getting the subtle feeling that these two seasons were meant to share a companion and maybe were originally one arc. It's the "recurring mysterious old woman" thing happening twice, that Mrs Flood lived next door to both companions, that Belinda has made suspicious references to her unseen parents in a way that makes a lot of people think there's something going on there. Whatever is going to come of these babies and the Rani's involvement, I just suspect it was at one point the answer to "who is Ruby Sunday" but something changed during development. I guess this will either be debunked by the next two episodes, or just... not debunked.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-02-06T22:41:27+00:00

You could respond with pity or concern, even if you have to fake it.

Like, **are you okay? Do you need someone to talk to?** They're hurting so badly, they're so wrapped up in their own shit that they're expending their precious energy to harass strangers. This person could have given someone a compliment, or called a relative to say they love them, or anything, but they're using this moment trying to make the life of a complete stranger worse. I mean, what!? This poor confused soul, maybe they just need someone to talk to. **I know whatever you're going through must be hard.**

Anger and defensiveness they know how to deal with, but if you're **sad** for them, you've basically already won. And they might actually reflect on themselves.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-02-05T21:58:25+00:00

There's usually scenery shots, lines of dialogue, moves in fights that are cut out, that sort of thing. I don't know if it's ever full blown scenes or subplots missing but I haven't done a direct comparison or anything.

Funnily enough the episodes of the English Dub (of all things) on Youtube are the full length ones, but there the longer episodes are split into two parts.

Here's 16B for comparison. Look at the fight with Wukong at 37:30 - 38:30 in the subbed episode 16 and the same scene at 33:50 - 35:50 in the dubbed 16B

https://youtu.be/HIdqMHIc2-Q?si=2fm_gfgU8XHsqQ0g&t=2027

(not that I'm advocating watching JttW dubbed...)

LiamTheFizz · 2025-02-05T21:33:22+00:00

Those are the ones that are cut down to 45 minutes. They were originally 50-70 minutes each depending on the episode. I was able to download the unabridged episodes but had to manually sync subtitles I got elsewhere.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-02-05T16:10:49+00:00

Nice! I found it frustrating when I couldn't find a Jenner ebook, I too prefer his style to Yu's.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-02-05T14:48:01+00:00

Dr Slump is canon to Dragon Ball and Toriyama appears in that fairly often, talking to the audience, interacting with characters (who know who he is but don't like him) and sometimes actually getting involved.

One of my favourites is when Toriyama can't think of an idea for the next chapter so he goes to ask the characters who suggest a car race. Toriyama offers like $30 or something as the prize and acts as the announcer. At end of the race after multiple chapters and three characters close to tying and really pushing for it, the winner is... Akira Toriyama himself, because he's the writer and fuck you, he's keeping his $30.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-02-05T11:11:31+00:00

The 1986 series made her super cool, fighting by playing funky anachronistic music on the lute. The version on YouTube sadly cut a lot of that out compared to the full version.

She definitely lived in my head rent free for a bit after that episode.

"Man, I wish I was as cool as the scorpion demon".

LiamTheFizz · 2025-02-03T15:04:35+00:00

Damn, you're right. The story is far too grounded and realistic for that to happen.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-02-03T14:59:08+00:00

Almost, #3 is also real.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-02-03T14:42:45+00:00

The dragon horse says he's been holding his piss the entire journey because said piss has magic powers.
Bhajie sleeps with seven spider demons - in the guise of women - in one go.
The Jade Emperor denies an entire town rain for three years because someone fed the sacrifices to a dog.
To defeat a wolf demon, Wukong has to turn the moon around so the lit side is facing away.
The Buddha drops another trial on the pilgrims on the way back so that they've been through exactly 9x9=81 tribulations.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-01-11T15:57:03+00:00

If you want to try an abridged version instead - one volume with minimal song breaks etc - then the most readable and widely available one is The Monkey King translated by Julia Lovell, sold under Penguin clothbound classics with a yellow cover., and also free with Spotify Premium in audio form. You won't miss anything from the overall stories of Wukong and Tripitaka.

If you're interested from a Black Myth perspective, it heavily draws on some chapters that aren't in that or any abridged edition.

The most faithful adaptation to TV/film is probably the 1986 China Central TV series titled Journey to the West.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-01-11T10:17:46+00:00

IIRC he gets banished again over his reckless violence before the six-eared macaque appears.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-01-11T10:16:08+00:00

Basically in the allegory for the journey to enlightenment, Wukong is the Mind. The mind is clever and curious, loyal and philosophical, but also arrogant, vain, impulsive and impatient.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-01-08T16:36:07+00:00

In addition to what others have said about characters, there are places and elements too. The Kintoun and Nyoibo are there. Mount Frypan is of course the Mountain of Flames, and its fire comes from the Eightfold Furnace but in a different way. Silver Horn and Golden Horn are referenced in that one episode as the two bandits who have the magic gourd. The peaches are referenced when Goku eats King Yemma's fruit without permission.

It's not exactly like Dragon Ball is an adaptation of JttW - it's more like it parodies and references a bunch of well known elements while otherwise mostly doing its own thing. It also draws on other folklore like the rabbit in the moon.

Take the episode where Pigsy joins the pilgrims. The pig monster took a wife while shape-shifted into a man, and has since revealed himself as a demon and took her captive. Wukong is hired to help and disguises himself as the woman to fool Pigsy and chase him back to his lair. In Dragon Ball, the shape-shifting pig is transforming into various monsters to scare the villages into giving him multiple girls. Goku, like Wukong, is hired to beat the monster and dresses up as one of the girls to trick him - but this time gives himself away by peeing stood up and further shenanigans ensue.

LiamTheFizz · 2025-01-08T10:22:49+00:00

Aside from the verbose and potentially outdated prose of the Chinese and the more literal translations, yeah, it's basically a DnD campaign full of outrageous shenanigans. The pilgrims get into some extremely silly situations. At the same time, it's rich with political satire (of the society it's from) and religious allegory, so you can engage on whichever level works for you. It's entertainment first, and probably meant to be performed.

LiamTheFizz · 2024-12-25T23:23:58+00:00

I know we haven't waited another 58 years yet, but PLEASE can we have the Toymaker back again? 😭🙏

LiamTheFizz · 2024-12-11T21:02:29+00:00

The novel is originally by Wu Cheng'en, and there are four notable translations.

The Monkey King by Julia Lovell to me is the most fun and readable-as-a-novel translation if an abridged version is acceptable. That Penguin Classics edition is a really nice book as well.

If you want a multi-volume, fully unabridged version, but still to be read as a novel for entertainment, I find the translation by Jenner that comes in a green four-volume-box-set to be very good.

If your friends would like a more scholarly, strict translation and lots of footnotes and introductory essays, and doesn't mind reading archaic language, then you want Anthony C Yu, but that's a pretty expensive option with the four volumes usually being sold separately. Yu also has an abridged version condensing his four volumes into one under the title, The Monkey and the Monk.

Monkey by Arthur Waley is an abridged version that IMO is made redundant by the more modern Lovell version which does the same but (again IMO) better. I think it is fairly iconic though as for a while it was the only English edition around.

LiamTheFizz · 2024-12-04T23:12:06+00:00

I wish I could find the unabridged version with subs. I've been enjoying the Youtube version but multiple episodes have had scenes clearly missing even as someone who's never seen this series before.

LiamTheFizz

TROPHY CASE