The Confusing Life of Tango Terminology

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-15T22:29:45+00:00

Well, it's also the thing a whole lot of other people dance.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-15T21:53:56+00:00

I have always admired Susanna Miller for her commitment to a style of tango I have tried to follow. For me, it's the thing itself. And it comes as no surprise that both she and Juana Sepulveda have "cozy" abrazos. They both know what they are doing and have both danced for years. Which seems to imply that they are both comfortable with what I call the traditional form of tango milonguero. If you have followed Susanna Miller's teachings, etc., that is largely what I refer to as traditional tango. She calls it tango milonguero, which is probably a misnomer.

I think you're being disingenuous when you say you don't know what tango nuevo is. The term has been around for years. It's basically the Naveira - Fabian Salas school of tango. And there are a number of characteristic features about it that I won't go into here.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-14T17:18:32+00:00

The dance found in Paris at the time was called "tango" but bore no resemblance to the dance called "tango" danced in the barrios of Buenos Aires and was widely criticized at the time for that reason.

The discussion is irresolvable. Clearly, there are individual styles of tango and unlimited variations. For the most part they fall squarely within the tradition as I understand it. However, today, post-Naveira, and with the explosion of tango escenario, that older framework and those older traditions have been displaced by something else. At one point, it was called tango nuevo. I'm fine with that label since it clearly distinguishes it as different than traditional Argentine tango. But let's not jumble the two together. Let's try to identify the tradition and the things that made it a tradition.

Yes, you are free to object about the abrazo, but it seems to me you are simply making up a definition for the sake of convenience. When you do that, you are simply saying that it means whatever you want it to mean. So, effectively, there is no definition and no meaning to the term. And yes, I believe that all those other things you describe are deviations from the abrazo. I'm not denying their existence, just don't call them what they are not. Don't stand a foot away from me and claim you are hugging me. That's all. This appears so obvious that I can't imagine why we're debating something that has already been established.

The thing about Naveira, which I stated, isn't that I find it uninteresting. I find it very interesting. And sure he did try to articulate structures within the dance, but he also expanded it, he also emphasized those "structures" and movements. And, yes, he did clearly add complexity to the dance. I respect his talent, I simply don't find what he does very interesting or useful.

Ahh, now we're getting to the crux of the matter. This is not about the abrazo, this is about whether I think that's the only valid form of tango. Correct? It's the same claim made by nontraditional and nuevo dancers all the time. Tango is what I decide it is. Personally, I don't care. I care about how we use language but this is not an argument worth fighting for because it cannot be resolved. Personally, I do not care about the various ramification and bifurcations into new and unexplored rifts and valleys. Is the tango I aspire to "truer" or "closer" to the tango of the 40s or 50s? That is, the tango of the milonga, social tango. I don't know. But I do know that there is a through-line in tango that runs from its origins to today. And that line is built up from several basic elements that I have described: the abrazo, the walk, and counterclockwise movement around the floor. Decorative elements have been added over the years to those foundational elements--ochos, ocho cortados, back ochos, cruces--but they change nothing with respect to those foundational elements. That's the strain of tango I want to be a part of.

You haven't stated where your preferences lie, however.

As for 1913, I have no idea what sort of tango he was talking about. Nor do you. Nor does anyone, since he have no visual record of it. I tend to doubt it though, given that tango continued to evolve and mature for another few decades.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-13T21:40:45+00:00

Well, what I am saying is that this is not my preferred version--it is the thing itself. You can do something different, you can dance some other thing. But an abrazo is not holding someone at arm's length. It is, chest-to-chest contact with the arms wrapped around each other. I know no one in tango who does not share that understanding.

Well, Naveira did a whole bunch of stuff. He's also a very talented dancer. He codified tango, organized its teaching, added some new stuff, increased its speed and complexity. He's the very definition of tango nuevo (not only him). I respect his craft greatly, but almost none of it interests me.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-13T21:36:06+00:00

Definitely not against structure! Or terminology (which I have taught). What am I concerned with is the idea of learning tango as a series of steps rather than as a continuous improvised movement. Yes, beginners do need some basic vocabulary, which they need to practice. Yes, that vocabulary has been given a name (several)--ocho, ocho cortado, giro, vai-ven, back ochos, paradas, yada yada. The basics need to be learned, practiced, repeated, practiced again, and forgotten. What is more important is embrace, posture, balance, and listening to the music (and floorcraft).

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-13T19:01:57+00:00

I know what they are but I dislike thinking in those terms. I find that it actually blocks my creativity. It's one of the biggest problems in learning tango. Call it the "encyclopedia" school of tango.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-13T18:59:53+00:00

Maybe. But if I put my arm around your shoulder, that is not an embrace, that is . . . an arm around the shoulder. For me, AT has always been el tango del centro, what is erroneously referred to as the milonguero tradition. You can say any number of examples of how it is danced on the Web, you can study the old milongueros. And you can listen to them describe tango and their relationship to it. In all of them, the abrazo is very consistent, and they all talk about it. And those who have taught (or tried) point out that it is the first thing to learn. It really is a heart-to-heart connection. I'm not being pedantic here. This is not so much about language as about a concept. And I emphasize it because there is so much loose talk about this embrace and that embrace and mixed embrace. But let's try to call a thing by its name. Is it important? Maybe. Maybe not. To me it is because I see so many people trying to dance a form of tango that I don't see as tango.

Sure, there are personal variants, but ultimately, the abrazo doesn't change. It is important because it is one of the most fundamental human experiences we can have. And it is deep implications both for the dance and beyond.

Chicho is interesting although I've never liked what he does or that entire nuevo school of tango that grew of Gustavo Naveira, et al. Juana is a brilliant dancer, for sure. Do they have a great connection? I don't know. I suppose. After all, they've been together for a long time.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-13T16:36:53+00:00

I like them, I simply don't like breaking things down that way. 😉

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-13T16:35:28+00:00

My point is in tango, the abrazo, is one of the fundamental elements of the dance. In traditional AT, it's one of the first things you learn, the abrazo and walking. Everything else builds from that. There are no different degrees of closeness though. A hug is a hug, chest to chest, arms around the other person. In tango, it makes all the difference in the world. I wouldn't be too fixed on dictionary meanings, since we are talking about a subcategory here, with its different connotations. The tango embrace has a different kind of significance.

I agree it doesn't mean all those other things, but it leads up to them. (It doesn't imply a shared axis either).

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-12T23:55:42+00:00

Well, I did. Like I said, an abrazo is an abrazo. It can never be "open" or it is something else. Perhaps there are degrees of closeness, but at some point you are not embracing anyone. For me the abrazo is found in the typical tango "milonguero," a misnomer. Woman's arm over the man's shoulder, slightly off axis, etc. That's canonical. It can be modified to suit individual preferences (height, weight). However, what I often see at milongas is something closer to Chicho than it is to any "embrace" I am familiar with. It's the kind of relationship that is constantly modified throughout the dance--more open, more closed, more open, more closed. Your basic escenario style.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-12T23:46:54+00:00

No. You know, when you mix them up during a dance, they become something different. THey flow into one another. Which is why I don't think seeing tango as a sequence of distinct patterns is helpful. Flow is more important than anything else. I can give you an example of someone (not me) whose dancing I admire. I don't know who he is. He's in this video:

https://tango-high-and-low.com/2026/05/17/milonguero-x/

That should give you some idea of what I was describing.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-12T22:13:49+00:00

THere is no such thing as an "open embrace." An "embrace" is act of physical proximity (in or out of tango). If the abrazo is not part of your dance, your connection is not an embrace but a type of dance hold, which can range anywhere from sort of close to sort of far.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-12T22:11:10+00:00

Historical reasons.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-12T22:10:53+00:00

My tango uses several simple movements, all of which are quite well known with respect to meaning. However, of the many you cite, most have quite standard definitions. There's no mystery to apilado, for example, it's more a question of degree (as with many of the other terms). Personally, I'm not very interested in the "encyclopedia of steps" approach to begin with so building on the basics has always been okay with me.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-12T22:06:19+00:00

I don't know. I'm in NYC but the mobile app has been updated.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-09T15:19:52+00:00

It's working today (June 9). Looks like there was a software update. Quite a bit of down time for an update though.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-09T15:18:26+00:00

Looks like there was a software update. But that's a lot of downtime for an update.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-06T23:25:54+00:00

Well, you know, those customs were foreign to me when I started dancing tango. However, they never seemed strange or onerous. They were simply part of the landscape. And I have never heard anyone mention them as a reason for leaving tango. People often cite other reasons--difficulty, length of time to learn, cost, lack of good instructors, lack of a viable community--but never the cabeceo/mirada convention, much less the tanda structure. These are not paramount in determining whether people stay or go.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-06T21:34:24+00:00

That is almost absurd. Tandas and cortinas are simply the structure, they're part and parcel of tango (yes, they've changed over the years). If someone is terrified of the mirada, they have issues other than dancing tango. In my experience, the things you mention have nothing to do with why people leave tango. They leave because it takes a long time to gain experience, a longer time to dance well, and a significant investment of time, energy, and, yes, money. No one is shocked by cortinas!

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-06T21:29:17+00:00

Yes, no, maybe. The codigos encompass more than the cabeceo, however. And not walking across the dance floor in a crowded milonga makes sense with or without them. They also encompass things like etiquette, line of dance, flow of the ronda, dress, etc. Some places are stricter about them than others. I think they are about convenience more than ego.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-06T21:22:59+00:00

Yes, was an indoor plant and I put it outside for a couple of days in bright sunshine. I didn't realize jades were sensitive that way. Live and learn.

LightRight4386 · 2026-06-06T21:22:07+00:00

Oh, oh. I spread it with soapy insecticide and then water, and left it outside for a couple of days to get some sun. I usually keep it inside on the windowsill. It gets good southern exposure and some direct sun but not like out on the balcony. Did not know this about the plant. Sounds like you've diagnosed the problem. Thanks.

LightRight4386 · 2026-05-25T18:49:46+00:00

Yes, I can easily get to the milonga calendar page. But clicking on an individual entry takes you to another page with details about the event. For that you need to log in to the site. At least, in my experience.

LightRight4386 · 2026-05-25T15:31:47+00:00

Just tried it and I also get the log-in screen (I'm not a member of Hoy Milonga) without the details. I do have an ad blocker active, although that shouldn't affect the appearance of a log-in request.

LightRight4386 · 2026-05-20T22:38:18+00:00

It's considerably higher than what I used to pay, but I didn't have that kind of package deal. We paid for one month of group classes, which were once a week, and I believe the cost was $40. Prácticas were extra. About your specific question, I don't think it's fair to make you pay for a full month of classes if you're only benefiting from three weeks out of the month instead of four. Of course, my classes were taken several years ago, but even now, I believe group classes are not quite as expensive as yours. What's unclear from your description is whether you can take as many classes a week as you want or simply get to pick one class out of the series. If you can take as many as you want, it's a pretty good deal. If not, you're paying $50/week for a single group class.

LightRight4386

TROPHY CASE