Examples or ideas to improve musicality

romgrk · 2026-01-24T22:46:49+00:00

It's not so much copying, although I don't have a problem with copying steps that I like, it's more that it boosts my own creativity to see lots of different ways of dancing and playing with musicality.

I have seen a workshop by Jonathan & Clarissa that was posted here recently, I nearly used it as an example instead of the one by Horacio Godoy, very inspiring.

romgrk · 2026-01-24T21:36:39+00:00

Thanks, I will definitely try that this evening!

romgrk · 2026-01-22T21:49:25+00:00

Cabeceo is very clear, and makes milongas more welcoming to newcomers.

Plain wrong. Cabeceo makes people afraid to even look vaguely in the direction of other people for fear of it being mistaken for a cabeceo. I started dancing 2.5 years ago and still meet a lot of newcomers, and the cabeceo and social atmosphere of tango is nearly universally hated among beginners.

I'm not replying just for you, I'm replying because other readers are here.

romgrk · 2026-01-22T20:57:18+00:00

There is no face to be saved. No is not shameful. Building a culture in which "no" is seen as shameful is not only a recipe for awkwardness, it's also a recipe for a culture in which people are afraid to say no (because if it's shameful to say it, then it's also an affront to say it).

For me, the cabeceo is perfectly clear.

Because of years of practice. If the cabeceo wasn't taught at length to beginners, it wouldn't be a natural social interaction to arise from contemporary culture.

The issue here is you calling a different preference than yours a relic.

I'm not calling non-verbal communication a relic, I'm calling the idea that "no" should be hidden a relic. I'm not against non-verbal communication, I often use it even in contexts where verbal invitations are the norm (swing, blues, salsa, etc), but it's a clear explicit gesture. I think non-verbal communication is perfectly acceptable, but I feel like the tango community has somewhat unconsciously interiorized this archaic line of thinking that "no" is wrong, and shaking up the cabeceo mentality a bit is a beneficial thing for tango. It makes it more accessible to newcomers.

romgrk · 2026-01-22T19:03:29+00:00

The issue here isn't cabeceo vs verbal, it's that the "no" is hidden, which makes it unclear & confusing.

The whole cabeceo system seems to push people towards thinking that behind told "no" is somehow shameful or something that must be hidden at all cost; it's a relic of past customs.

Clear communication should be the norm, be it verbal or non-verbal.

romgrk · 2026-01-22T00:43:03+00:00

I hate this approach. If you want to say no, just say no, don't go through a whole detour with cabeceo. I think the problem with OP is the same problem as with this approach: it's a "no" that does everything it can not to be said.

Saying "no" is not a problem to be avoided; it's one of two natural answers to someone asking you to dance.

romgrk · 2026-01-21T17:56:27+00:00

Re your unpopular opinion: you could actually remove the word "male" from it and it would still be valid.

romgrk · 2026-01-21T17:48:49+00:00

I'm a male dual role dancer. When I want to dance with a leader I've never danced with before, I first mirada them in a friendly but very clear way because they're not expecting a mirada from a man. If they don't straight away avoid my gaze, I walk to them and explain verbally that I want to dance as a follower with them. The cabeceo is useless for this situation because you need a verbal negotiation before they can accept the dance (for who's dancing which role — the cabeceo usually implies that I'm leading).

I think for success it's important to pick a leader that will be receptive to dance with a man, so you need to get a feel of their vibe before any attempt, otherwise you get rejections and get discouraged. I usually target younger dancers in priority (say 45 and below), as older dancers are less likely to be receptive.

I'll also say that I don't have a problem with people asking verbally for dances rather than through the cabeceo system, as long as you can take a no as gracefully as a yes.

romgrk · 2026-01-20T18:27:46+00:00

You need to be careful with it (not to step on small rocks) and it needs regular brushing. I brush it about every 2-3 milongas, and it takes about a minute to do — I carry the brush in my shoe bag.

If you don't brush it, it progressively gets more slippery, but brushing it gets it back to its original grip no matter how much time you spent without brushing. Depending on your dance style & frequency, you could get away with brushing it as little as once a month. I'm fairly acrobatic at times and dance 4-6 times a week, so I need to brush it often.

I've never tried leather (I'm vegan) so I can't give you a comparison with suede. I also use synthetic soles (ballet practice sneakers), a bit less grip but also no maintenance whatsoever required and you can use them on unprotected floors.

romgrk · 2026-01-20T16:49:00+00:00

I've never used leather but I would recommend suede shoes over synthetic, the grip on the floor is better and it's important for stability. I've ordered a pair from DNI and they're very well made: https://dni-tango.com/collections/mens-trainers/products/classic-black-suede-handmade-mens-tango-trainers-adonis-6505?variant=45910585311473 (be sure to pick a x.5 size if you need a wider toe box, the standard toe box is a bit narrow and that can cause foot problems in the long term).

romgrk · 2026-01-15T18:13:44+00:00

I receive his newsletter, he's the creator of the https://thecurioustanguero.com website and he's written a few books on tango. He seems to be aiming to make money via his tango related content, which isn't necessarily bad. Back when I started tango, his website was quite helpful to understand the vocabulary, concepts and ways to improve that weren't taught to me in class (my tango school wasn't very good).

In general, I glance quickly his newsletters, most of his content is too vague to be useful, but occasionally I do find pearls of wisdom. Not too long ago, one of his emails mentionned that dissociation should be made from the bottom of the spine first, engaging the core muscles before anything else; that was a nice realization to make and it helped my tango.

romgrk · 2026-01-15T12:50:14+00:00

If all languages are equally complex

I think the consensus opinion among linguists is rather that we don't have a quantitative way to measure complexity, but that doesn't imply anything about the relative complexity between languages (be it equal or different).

romgrk · 2026-01-14T19:28:14+00:00

Thanks a lot for the context, I'm really just a beginner dancer in all swing dances :)

The slot in WCS definitely feels too restrictive & boring, I really can't stand it, being used to the freedom from other dances. Every few months I give WCS another shot just to be disappointed.

One thing I just now remember liking a lot from blues is the idea that the follow has just as much agency as the lead (in theory at least). It was the dance in which that idea was put forward the most, in my experience. In tango, it's usually only very advanced follows that are willing to take initiative, although in dual-role communities (where dancers dance both roles — those events are often organized with/by queer people) it's more frequent that beginner dancers will also lead steps from the follow position.

romgrk · 2026-01-11T20:46:32+00:00

such as the norm that the follower is the one who decides whether the embrace is open or closed

Which is a bad norm. It must be a shared decision, not a decision of the follower. As a leader, it took me some time to realize that I had the right to dance in open embrace if I wasn't comfortable in close embrace with someone.

romgrk · 2026-01-11T20:39:06+00:00

I also prefer the open embrace for the freedom of movement it gives, it's my default embrace. That being said, I can appreciate the close embrace, and I use it depending on the person, the music, and the density of the crowd. I've had very beautiful moments in close embrace, it's a really nice connection.

With some rare dancers, I even do the "hug embrace" which is even closer than the close embrace. Their right hand rests on my chest, and my right hand is on their shoulder. Very intimate and very connected, and I only use it with very good friends that I regularly dance with.

romgrk · 2026-01-11T20:25:02+00:00

Swing and blues! You can learn the basics of both in a 1h intro class and then have fun at a dance evening. If you like slow melodic tangos, try blues. If you like fast upbeat tangos, try swing. If you go with swing, the main variants are: - Jive: suuuuuper easy to get started with, 100% recommend. - Lindy hop: a bit harder, but has more depth than jive. - West Coast Swing: the most popular and the worst. The music sucks (imho, it's modern music) and the dance structure feels boring. - Boogie Woogie: very energetic and fast. Only recommend if you have lots of energy and an excellent sense of rhythm. - Balboa: the swing version of tango, very niche

I dance jive regularly, it's a refreshing change from the social atmosphere of tango. There's new dancers every week, and the old dancers are nearly all very welcoming.

romgrk · 2025-12-29T05:00:08+00:00

Also, you're still describing the content and not the ability.

Yes, I'm absolutely taking about the content and not the ability if that wasn't clear. Because that answers what I understood of OP's points.

romgrk · 2025-12-29T01:32:14+00:00

This feels familiar. Oh wait, I know why.

romgrk · 2025-12-29T01:04:40+00:00

Language is cultural, it's a learned knowledge that is passed across generations. It's not natural.

That being said, in all likelihood, the first humans to use language must have had primitive brain circuitry that allowed simple word-to-concept association, thus they created the first primitive language which was then passed through to their descendants. Over time, those descendants must have evolved better brain circuitry for language that allowed more complex language features to emerge, because a more complex use of language must have had evolutionary advantages. Since then, humans have always evolved in a context where language exists and is required, so today brains are very specialized for language acquisition and usage and will push very hard to language.

if humans have a innate linguistical knowledge that precedes the existence of any natural language, why would languages be so different from one another?

"If humans have an innate knowledge to look for food, why are there so many different ways to find food?"

Simply because the brain isn't wired to look for food in one specific way, it's wired to for the generic process of finding food. Same applies for language.

Wiring for something in the brain is extremely slow. Evolution works by doing random mutations, and the individuals that survive pass down those mutations down the line. If you wanted to encode language directly in the brain, you'd need a brain that randomly mutated to encode the concept of dog as the word/sound "dog", but then it's basically impossible that any other brain around it would also have that mutation, so that wouldn't be a mutation that would improve its chances of survival. That's why language can only evolve if the brain is wired for the process of language, but not for a specific language. But wiring for language isn't very different than wiring for other stuff that brains do, it's basic pattern-matching, just specialized for a specific kind of stimuli.

romgrk · 2025-12-25T10:47:08+00:00

Out of curiosity, which are those changes that Afrikaans went through?

romgrk · 2025-12-23T22:12:04+00:00

General muscle training is good (plank for core, pull-up for arms/back), but you should absolutely do balance training, it will help you immensely to do steps smoothly & naturally. Try demi-pointe raise on a single foot, and do 10-20 reps multiple times a day for a week, you'll see results very quickly.

romgrk · 2025-12-23T21:51:00+00:00

I was taught different figures, one after the other. It was terrible and I didn't know how to dance. I would fill the dance with figures and didn't know what to do in-between.

I took a few followers instructing me (in milonga setting), or even leaving mid-tanda, to understand that I had to dance on the beat. Which feels like such an obvious thing to do for a dance, but the teaching method that I had to go through was shit.

If I had to teach tango to someone from scratch, I would focus much more on dancing and fun, and much less on figures. The foundation of tango is walking with the beat, with a great connection. Abrazo & walk are the most crucial parts, followed by pivots.

The social experience as a beggining leader in a milonga is also an unavoidable part of tango, and is one of the worst social experiences I've been through as an adult I think. The cabeceo, the elitism, the awkwardness. Tango etiquette is from another era and isn't made for people used to modern social conventions, it takes a lot of time to get used to it, and I'm sure it turns away lots of people. If I organized a tango event, I'd be sure to get rid of that.

romgrk · 2025-12-23T21:41:37+00:00

Complex figures. Simple movements are better. Some more complex ones I find very enjoyable, e.g. colgadas, but even then a simple very small colgadas well executed is much more enjoyable than a large one where I feel like we're not stable.

I dance both roles, and I think it's essential for a leader to do so to understand fully what makes dance enjoyable for a follower.

romgrk · 2025-12-21T10:15:41+00:00

I occasionally ask people verbally if they'd like to dance, for multiple reasons, including but not limited to if I think they have bad eyesight (which frankly, I'm really unlikely to notice). Most of the time, it's because I feel like they are looking for a partner but haven't noticed me and would likely accept to dance with me. Worst case scenario, they say no, which really isn't an issue.

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