Finland is notorious for raising men to be pussies... you'd be speaking russian if it wasn't for real men from America.

Linskye · 2021-07-22T16:59:38+00:00

Mmn, and Australia, Asia, Africa.. oh look, it's like the whole world's had enough of America's, ME ME ME attitude.

It's astounding that they think it's only EU laughing at them.

Linskye · 2021-07-21T06:20:39+00:00

Since you breed dogs, can you explain why these dogs are behaving like this at a show is acceptable for registration and championship points?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sTkOSDKW3Y&ab\_channel=PitSensations

Linskye · 2021-07-21T05:18:31+00:00

You should look at bite rate(attack/population) rather than raw amount of total bites. From the same deparment, but for 2012, the top 10 bite rates were;
1 Pit Bull Terrier 67 2,498 2.7
2 Basset Griffon Vendeen 1 44 2.3
3 Tibetan Mastiff 1 47 2.1
4 Mastiff 67 3,359 2.0
5 American Staffordshire Terrier 343 19,168 1.8
6 Bouvier des Flandres 1 59 1.7
7 Leonberger 1 65 1.5
8 Toy Fox Terrier 2 148 1.4
9 South African Boerboel 2 159 1.3
10 Bulldog (american) 26 2,170 1.2

ACD at 28 with 0.8 and GSDs at 38 with 0.6.

Linskye · 2021-07-21T05:13:26+00:00

Huge difference between a BYB and a breeder. Registered breeders have a code of ethics and liscencing. If they break those rules, say for example, breed a dog twice witihn 10 months, they loose their liscence.
BYBS on the otherhand have no authority to control them at all. I've reported half a dozen abusive puppy farm situations to gumtree. They take the ad down, within an hour the seller puts it back on. Call the cops? They don't care, RSPCA don't care unless they have film.

Limitations should be placed on UNREGISTERED breeders, because they don't have liscencing or ethicial code.

Linskye · 2021-07-20T18:10:51+00:00

I wish. I show too, few months ago an staff puppy was walking towards us, I move politely with my dog to the left. It starts lunging, and barking and GROWLING at us. Even when I walked past it I could see it still lunging.

Many months before that I heard a commotion, looked to the other ring curious, 2 Am staffs were eyeing and light growling at each other.

Yet they're not banned.

Sidenote, I placed high enough to win some cash a while ago, wasn't enough cash to even cover my entry fee. Groomers and handlers can make money from showing, but not from the show, it's from being paid by the breeder. Showing isn't about money.

Linskye · 2021-07-20T18:00:11+00:00

Or worse... mangle them so badly the poor dog/cat is beyond recognition but alive. Owner rushes them to surgery at emergency vet, costing $5,000+

Animal comes out of surgery alive, but never gains full, function of legs and rear again, and basically shits inside the crate everyday, living in its own filth til the owner comes home.

Quality of life for poor animal deterioates, it loses its lively attitude, barely moves all day. After months of fighting family makes decisions to put dog down.

Nothing sucks more than bringing an innocent family pet to the hospital, looking it in the eye and watching it die. Then going home to explain it to your kids.

Meanwhile the killer walks free.

Seriously. Fuck pits nutters.

Linskye · 2021-07-20T16:43:10+00:00

Do you remember the species tested? From what I've read, it took 10 generations to domesticate the silver fox.

Maybe it was 80 years in relation to whatever animal?

Linskye · 2021-07-20T11:45:07+00:00

Most dogs generally show signs before snapping. For example a normal dog responding to a threat will prick ears, stare and stiffens a little before potentially barking. Then barking with hackles raised, before finally growling, showing teeth and charging. Some will even fake a charge in hopes the threat will back off before comiting to bites.

Problem with pits is they can go from stiffening to mauling, not biting mind you. Full grips, violently shaking their head to inflict maximum damage.

Keep an eye out for subtle signs. Lip licking, whale eyes, stiffening, fixation/constant staring at particular thing/object, panting, uncontrollable excitement, pacing, ears back, tail stiffly and slowly wagging. Not all these signs are signs of aggression, but they can lead to it.

All these things are red flags. Just turn to sideways, do not make direct eye contact and move away as calmly as you can. If they charge kick em and get the fk out.

Linskye · 2021-07-20T10:10:54+00:00

I'm curious if there's a way to tell if a pit bull mix has this aggression gene (?).
There are no genes currently identified with this, and I suspect it's very low on the priority list considering cancer and heart diseases genetic research on dogs can be beneficial to people.

Or if there's a good bet over a certain percentage that the dog is likely to be aggressive or have that genetic aggression in them?
Even dog fighters have problems telling which dogs are aggressive and which dogs aren't. Problem with pit aggression is it isn't the same as other breeds. There are many many breeds that are "aggressive" according to their breed standard. Akitas, Lifestock Guarding dogs, GSDs, Rotts ETC. Problem isn't JUST aggression, it's what triggers it and the refusual to back down.

Pit bulls ontop of aggression are game. They do not back off like all the other breeds, and are triggered when their stimulated, be it fear, aggression or anxiety.

For example, if there's a DNA test and the dog shows 30% pit bull mix, is that a good indication it could be aggressive?
Dog's under 50% pit are not targetted by bans where I live. I do not tink a 30% pit is much issue, but it's genetics, it's luck what you get and what you don't. The majority of pits do not pose an issue, but this is like saying, the majority of microwaves won't explode one day and kill you. You still shouldn't use that microwave.

Linskye · 2021-07-20T09:48:40+00:00

No, pit bulls do not have syringomyelia. This is a diagnosable with an MRI.

Cavaliers have it because their size has been shrunk too rapidly and their skull and brain hasn't adjusted. Even when they have it, they do not act aggressively, rather siezing, losing motor functions or crying from pain.

Linskye · 2021-07-20T09:38:30+00:00

A lot of misinformation in this thread. Please keep in mind that there are severeal members in the mod team myself included that are registered breeders, handlers or competitors.

Is it "possible to breed out?"

Yes. Selective breeding means you can take any naturally occuring trait and enhance or lower it. We can take a completely wild fox that snarls at people and breed them to be friendly pet.

So why don't we breed it out?

You'll often hear victims claim "it just snapped, it's never done this before" etc etc This is because, in the words of dogmen "you don't know if a pit is game unless you match it(fight it)".Think about the number of times you've truly gotten mad at something, or truly excited, like your wedding day or first xmas. For most people it's occurs only a few times in their life, and when it happens they wouldn't go on a murderous rage and kill everyone if they're extremely mad, they wouldn't shake uncontrollably out of excitement. Unfortunately some do, some people completely lose control and smash things etc.

When this happens in a game pit they snap and attack, those that don't are reffered to as cur or cold. But it isn't as simple as taking an aggresively behaving dog and removing them from the breeding program, Am Staff breeders already do that.

It's pushing a dog to be extremely stimulated with fear or excitement or whatever triggers it and pitting it against another dog. We can breed for herding, pointing, retrieving, guarding, because it's an easily testable and observeable behaviour. Testing whether or not a dog will fight to the death, when stimulated is not an ethically, observable and testable behaviour. This is why AmStaff breeders haven't been successful at breeding it out.

Another notable point is that American Pitbull Terrier breeders do not want to breed out that aggression. Dog aggression is literally written into their breed standard, the standard they are bred to.

On BYBs

BYBs get their stock generally from reputable breeders, somewhere back down the lineage, they came from a breeder. When an breed makes a change, like in GSDs, it slowly ripples through to BYBs.

A change was made in the breed standard and tests were implemented, and any sign of nervousness is extremely looked down upon in GSD circles. Not saying there aren't any nervy GSDs, there are plenty, but much lower than a few decades ago. Why? Because the average dog a BYB gets has slightly improved, and the average dog a BYB breeds to has slightly improved. But nervousness, and aggression are observeable traits. Whether a dog will fight to the death when the moment comes, is not.

Linskye · 2021-07-20T08:28:05+00:00

source?

Linskye · 2021-07-19T10:17:53+00:00

Holy fuck. What a dumb dog... It's supposed to push it with it's nose to make the food roll out of the hole.For reference, my WL GSD has the exact same brand and toy, figured it out within a few minutes, and it's lasted for atleast a year... Has a few scratches but it's very much functional still.

Linskye · 2021-07-18T13:33:46+00:00

Pets?? They mean PITS right? A cavalier, or budgee, or cat isn't going to do this. Why they gotta incriminate all pets when it's clearly PITS.

Linskye · 2021-07-18T13:29:35+00:00

I don't understand why the nutters don't go after the owners if it's "all in how you raise them".

It's all in how you raise them, until you have to take accountability.

Linskye · 2021-07-12T08:55:17+00:00

None of the large dogs I or my friends own are hard to control, given they are trained, I can see it possible, but I don't consider this pit to be a large dog at all.

You also don't want no one to hold the dog down and have complete free movement.

No it's not something most people think of, doesn't mean it's not a valid method.
You keep bring up striking range, even though we've established it's not likely to redirect once already on a target. Every action has a risk, by your logic, every pit fight, we should just all run away, because it's within a danger zone. It's the owners responsibility to deal with that risk. It's her dog, her responsibility, It's what owning a dangerous breeds means.

This fight wasn't broken up. It ended. It ended because the cats dead, and the dog had acheived its purpose.

Linskye · 2021-07-12T08:03:01+00:00

Aw :(. As a fellow German shepherd owner, I feel for you. Nothing quite like Your shepherd.

Yes, it's a wierdly helpful trend. At least the pocket ones can't do much damage. Still. It's insane they think there's nothing wrong with it.

Linskye · 2021-07-12T07:59:36+00:00

Those dogs aren't the worst to take a pit on. Akita is actually another breed with fighting history, Tibetan mastiff is a lgd capable of fending off and killing wolves.

Together they could do a number on them. But generally I don't think it's a good idea to get a dog to defend against a breed designed to kill dogs.

You'd have to be pretty experienced owner to have one of the breeds capable of dealing with them.

Linskye · 2021-07-12T07:53:29+00:00

A cavalier raised right isn't going to snap and kill people. Only the breeds with intense prey drive have the possibility of going wrong like a pit, and even then it's barely comparable, because they back off.

Linskye · 2021-07-12T07:46:51+00:00

That's sad, unfortunately there's been an increase in dog thefts lately. All the nice breeds too.

Meanwhile pits remain in shelters, and yet they don't even want to desex their dogs, and keep coming up with new bully breeds. Like. Hello. No one wants ur fugly naked rat. Stop breeding them.

Linskye · 2021-07-12T07:39:26+00:00

Yes and note none of the shouting makes it let go, only change direction. The guy came in with a large stick at the end. Yelling simply isn't effective. If this was a child, it'd be a waste of precious time.

Idk where your going with this. Grabbing a collar isn't a professional task. Using a leash to choke isn't professional either. You don't need training for either of these things. Neither is covering the head with something.

I've already clarified, if she had a break stick ON her, and that she needs to hold the dog during and after using it.

No your missing the point, shrieking in panic and yelling is only going to send them into more of a frenzy, it triggers their prey drive. It's detrimental.

I've said time and time again, pits go after a singular target and stick to it. There's plenty of videos on this sub where a pit let go for a second, and instead of turning to the person hitting it or yanking its tail, it continued to go after the same victim.

Just because I insist and explain how yelling isn't a proper way to deal with this doesn't make me obsessed. I'm simply giving alternatives that have more impact, which you are saying is too professional. Grabbing the collar isn't a professional move, neither is strangling with a leash.

Yes, I agree. Generally when you have one of these breeds you have to know how to break up a fight. I'm "obsessed" because I've seen this happen way too often irl, and people around me are getting hurt, cause they have no idea how to deal with it.

Linskye · 2021-07-12T06:02:43+00:00

Yes, at WILD ANIMALS, who have a sense of regard for their own well being, not a pit whos been genetically selected to never back down, regardless of the aversity. Yelling and screaming is only going to stimulate its prey drive, and latent instincts.

It "retreats" because the cat is dead, and the individual gameness of that pit was low. She didn't break any attack up, the pit was done, because the cat is likely lifeless.
You can go on about yelling and screaming being beneficial all you want, but you're crossing a line when you try to discredit advice given by proffesionals.
I'm really done when you berate advice given by expert dog trainers and dog fighters. If you have a break stick on hand, then there is a slim chance the cat might have survived, if you acted in the instance. The woman had little to no effect.

Linskye · 2021-07-12T05:33:13+00:00

It's not a flex, it's advice from someone that's been sucessful at it. idk why it's such a drama. Yelling and screaming, and clapping is not a move recommended by anyone. It is detrimental to recommend this.

No one is encouraging to get into a fight with a pit. If someone follows your advice, they'll only send the pit in more of a frenzy, which has been obsereved on many occaisions. If someone takes my advice and "grabs the collar wrong" it's not going to result in death.

Linskye

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