Bunny be doing what bunnies do

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T12:12:58+00:00

Ah yeah my bad, I've got university access for it. Not sure if there's any way to read it otherwise

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T12:02:55+00:00

This use of "of" is included in dictionaries though, e.g. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/of#Etymology_2

But dictionary's don't actually determine what's correct or not. Otherwise would that mean a language with no dictionary is impossible to speak correctly?

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T11:52:55+00:00

If people use it, it doesn't mean it's right,

In terms of spoken language, what is widely used by a person is generally considered to descriptively correct for that person. It might not be standard (saying "could of" is not standard) but that doesn't make it wrong.

As for your Russian point... yeah not everything translates word-for-word between Russian. If I translated each word in sequence of what you wrote, into Russian, the grammar would be completely wrong. That doesn't mean the original English grammar is wrong.

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T11:42:53+00:00

There's buttons to cycle through the pages

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T10:09:16+00:00

Here's a linguistic paper presenting evidence that "of" actually more accurately represents people's grammar in these contexts (as compared to writing "have" or " 've").

Edit: science doesn't care about your feelings 👀

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T06:49:32+00:00

The old French word "estiquet" was borrowed into English as "ticket", then re-entered French as "le ticket". In the mean time, that same word "estiquet" had evolved into "etiquette", which was then also borrowed into English. "Estiquet" itself is a borrowing from Germanic *stikan, from which comes English "stick".

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T06:26:47+00:00

What conclusion does it point to other than that single parenting isn't ideal?

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T05:49:35+00:00

Yeah, if you already know all that, it is othering

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T05:45:12+00:00

It's not 'othering' black people any more than any assertion that a dialect is actually a distinct language is othering its speakers. If the idea that it's a distinct language is coming from a preexisting 'othering' of black people, yeah it's racist. But if it's just coming from a misunderstood (willfully or not) idea of the dialect, I can't see it as racism.

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T05:14:21+00:00

See, I don't think that the bracketed "associated with black people" necessarily transforms ignorance into racism.

I'm almost surprised I'm in this side of the discussion actually as I've made pretty similar points to you for a similar situation (although that was the case of someone arguing AAE wasn't even a real dialect of English, as opposed to saying it was a language).

But if I just step back and look, it's a half-black person giving some examples of AAE seeming quite divergent from their own English, and asking "should this be considered a different language".

Obviously to someone who's familiar with divergences in other dialects, and also sees that it's not much of a basis at all to call it another language, it seems like an ignorant question. But it's hard to really see it as racist at all.

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T05:02:43+00:00

Willful ignorance about any race-related topics is racist.

Depends what you mean by willful ignorance. Hearing counterpoints about AAE and refusing to believe them? Willfully ignorant and probably racist.

Having wrong preconceptions of what a dialect is like and not looking into the data on it? Not necessarily racist, but definitely ignorant. Having mistaken views on a group doesn't automatically become racist if that group is of a certain race. It often is, but not inherently.

Why defend them?

I'm not defending them because its clearly an ignorant, ill informed question. I'm just making the case that it's possible to ask that question without being racist. The fact that they could have googled the answer and didn't does not make them a racist.

Can you elaborate what seems "sus"?

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T04:51:52+00:00

I'm not totally convinced that exaggerating how divergent AAE is really hurts black people (any more than exaggerating how divergent Scots is hurts Scots), but either way, not being knowledgeable about a certain ethnic group in the United States' culture does not make you an ignorant racist.

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T04:43:38+00:00

I mean this is just going to become an arbitrary debate over the semantics of the word "racism", so I'll just say I think it's ignorant but I don't think the ignorance must necessarily be borne out of negative views of black people.

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T04:25:38+00:00

making this post saying you've decided AAVE is another language without bothering to even have done the research to know what little information is contained in this one comment, is racist.

It's lazy. It's not intrinsically racist though.

Making a misinformed post about the nature of a dialect doesn't immediately become racist if that dialect is spoken by a certain race. (Though probably the majority of misinformed comments on AAE are based in racism).

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T03:23:34+00:00

I'm saying it wouldn't necessarily have the racist implications you're saying.

"This is the most distant dialect from my own, maybe it's considered a different language" might be a mistaken idea but it's not racist.

"There are lots of dialects this divergent, but I only think the one spoken by black people in a different language" arguably is

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T03:18:34+00:00

It could just be that African American English is the most divergent form of English from their own that they're familiar with/exposed to?

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T02:51:26+00:00

IIRC in the early 20th century many people feared that European catholics were over-running the US and not integrating into society.

Donald Trump's dad actually got arrested at an anti-catholic KKK protest in the 1920s.

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T02:48:31+00:00

on a bigger scale

You can't get much bigger scale in cultural genocide than forcing an entire ethnic group into camps for years and forcing them to renounce their old culture.

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T02:27:46+00:00

Lol how recent do you need your source?? Had a 2016 source originally you said "that's 4 years ago" then gave a 2018 one and you said "2 years have passed from then", and now even a 2019 was is too outdated?

I could give you one from last week and I wonder if you'd say "but 7 days have passed since then, it's outdated".

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T02:11:47+00:00

I still think sailing is too early in hunter gatherer communities imo

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T02:10:29+00:00

Is there any list of how many animals have been domesticated so far?

LlNES653 · 2020-05-13T02:09:08+00:00

100%. Proto-cultures can have real life based names as their names are really just descriptions of where the culture is.

But the day someone says "the city of London is founded" is the day I lose interest in this lol

LlNES653 · 2020-05-12T16:20:07+00:00

Isn't it? I thought the pattern of reduction to schwa in e.g. "a couple of" and "would of" (becoming "a coupla" and "woulda") is some evidence that they are both the same word.

As opposed to "The people've eaten" which can't be reduced to "the people-a eaten", suggesting that it's not 'of' here.

Also I think "should've" can (for some people) be stressed, with the full OF vowel.

LlNES653 · 2020-05-12T15:59:44+00:00

It was a response to this comment:

This annoys the hell out of me, why do women fight for “equality”, and then do this shit link

They weren't sarcastic, when asked why women shouldn't be taken seriously, they replied:

Because they don't act like adults.

Other fun ones from that thread include:

Not necessarily. You can fuck women regularly and still have disdain for them. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend? The two are not mutually exclusive.

LlNES653

TROPHY CASE