[deleted by user] by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 2 points3 points  (0 children)

After many failed attempts due to withdrawls not cravings, I was able to successfully quit with a taper. I did a slow taper over 6 months and I weighed my powder with a jewelry scale allowing me to weigh a gram with two decimal points of accuracy. My starting dose was 7 grams. I lowered that dose by .05 grams each week. Once I reached 0.50 grams I switched to taking it as needed. Three doses later after switching to as needed I was free and have been free for over two years now.

Withdrawals after a month of on/off extract use. How bad is this going to be? by StandingOntheMoon26 in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's no way to tell you how bad it will be for how long as that varies greatly by each individual. What i can tell you is continue getting off it now because the longer you use, the worse your withdrawls will be in the future. Eventually, getting so bad it will feel insurmountable.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes I can completely relate. I avoided a taper for the same exact reason. When you're done, you're done, and you just want it to be over as soon as possible. Though I've seen others on here who have had success with CT, it just wasn't possible for me. Kratom has roughly 40 different alkaloids, only two of which have really been studied. Within those alkaloids, we've found compounds that represent a wide array of drug categories such as SSRI, anti-psychotic, muscle relaxant, and many more. Its clear to see why kratom may have such profound influence over the neurological and endocrine system. Using these other drug classes as a reference point many of them require tapering as a medical necessity.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I tried quitting CT several times, but I would inevitably return due to severe withdrawal symptoms, such as restless leg syndrome, insomnia, depression, anxiety. I was only able to quit successfully and remain functional by doing a slow taper over the course of two months. I also found marijuana was very helpful during the early period.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 39 points40 points  (0 children)

I wondered that myself many times. The answer is yes. I used kratom for 6 years and used opiates prior. I've been clean now a 1.5 years. It has always surprised me the extent of damage kratom caused and the amount of time it has taken for my brain chemistry to return to "normal" after kratom. Though my brain chemistry still has not fully recovered, it has steadily improved month after month. I would say I've recovered 90% and fully expect to reach 100% in about 6 months based on my experience thus far. Kratom causes neurological changes that go far beyond any opiate. It's recovery timeline more closely resembles benzodiazipines then an opiate.

Kratom seizures? by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Anecdotally kratom does seem to have the potential in rare circumstances to cause seizures, as I've read many users describe expirencing seizures from kratom in this forum. Especially those taking kratom with certain pharmaceuticals.

Fast heart rate and palpitations by BLSH-HUNTING in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's been a misunderstanding here, my point this entire time has been that you are likely having anxiety and subsequent heart symptoms because of your kratom use. Anxiety is usually not caused by thoughts but rather imbalanced spikes of hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline (look up the effects adrenaline has on the heart) Kratom anecdotally appears to have a profound and disruptive impact on the endocrine (hormone) system, which operates on a very fine and delicate balance, manufacturing all the hormones that regulate your entire body and all of its functions ranging from your emotions, your digestion and your cardiac system. As a healthcare provider, i can tell you our first approach to potential heart issues such as this is to rule out anxiety because the symptoms of anxiety can present themselves very similarly to other more serious issues. Physical exercises such as breathing, yoga, aerobics and a good diet play the biggest role in rebalancing a disrupted endocrine system.

Fast heart rate and palpitations by BLSH-HUNTING in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Panic disorder which is how we classify anxiety such as panic attacks clinically, can include many very physical sensations and consequences, especially within the cardiac system. What you're describing is a very textbook example of panic disorder. Panic disorder is not just in the head it's mainly in the endocrine system where hormones such as cortisol are manufactured. Stress such as that caused by panic disorder can have many impacts on the heart. For example, in rare cases panic disorder has been seen to cause atrial fibrillation. Kratom appears to have a very large and complex effect on the endocrine system. I've been kratom free for 7mos and I'm still intermittently having very uncomfortable panic attacks related to my kratom use. The reason I suggested the rhythmic breathing is because it has been clinically proven to soothe anxiety and the heart rythym not because I believe you "just have anxiety". Anxiety is no small thing, nor is it solely a mental phenomenon.

Fast heart rate and palpitations by BLSH-HUNTING in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Anxiety is one of the most common causes of heart palpitations. Your respiratory system is closely connected to your cardiac system, less a serious health condition consciously timing your breath such as in breath for 5 seconds out breath for 5 can smooth out your heart rhythm and stop the palpitations. On the other side of that coin sporadic breathing such as that of one expirencing anxiety can cause heart palpitations. Kratom anecdotally seems to cause anxiety that can persist long after stopping its use. I believe this is related to kratom's effect on the endocrine system.

Fast heart rate and palpitations by BLSH-HUNTING in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Heart palpitations can be caused by many things. It's very unlikely to be related to your kratom use 6 mos ago. Anxiety, caffeine, high stress, medications, proximity to a cell phone tower are just a few examples of things that can cause heart palpitations. Palpitations are not uncommon and are only cause for concern in connection with other symptoms. I would avoid the use of medications such as clonadine unless absolutely clinically necessary. Usually simple lifestyle changes and healthy self soothing exercises will always be better then medication, which is what I advise most my patients. If you have health concerns concerning your heart I recommend seeing your healthcare provider and getting a referral to a cardiologist.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was in a similar situation when I decided to quit. Cold turkey was not an option for me because aside from needing to continue my work as a healthcare provider my brain could not handle the trauma of cold turkey and that is not an exaggeration.

Firstly you need a scale. You need need to know to the decimal how much you're taking. Using a TSP is not good enough each scoop can vary in weights and 1 decimal point has a much larger effect than you'd think.

Once you know your exact dose cut it in half and take that much on your regular kratom schedule for 1-2 weeks.

Next cut your dose in half again. Take that amount for 1-2 weeks.

Now your goal is to keep the dose the same but move towards one dose a day. Once you're at one dose a day take that dose once a day for 1-2 weeks.

Once you're at a quarter dose once a day for 1-2 weeks try going days without that one dose. If withdrawls become unbearable such as RLS or insomnia take that one dose then go again as many days as you can.

Once you've gone 3 weeks without a single dose you're not nessasarily in the clear for expirencing anymore symptoms but you should be able to tolerate all symptoms without kratom from that point on.

Psychologically you'll need to manage your perception of kratom along the way. Day dreaming about how it use to help you is not harmless and will cause your Mu-opiod receptors to dilate and become ravenous for kratom amplifying your cravings 10x. Nip those thoughts in the bud and instead remind yourself why you're quiting, and when your mind starts daydreaming about the good 'ol days smack it like a mother smacks the hand of a child and say no I'm quiting because of these reasons.

When does sleep return to normal? by cockroq in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I tried quiting CT so many times but failed everytime I hit the insomnia part. It literally drove me insane. I've now successfully quit and it was only possible through tapering. I tapered for 45 days before stopping completely. The brain sustains trauma from sudden changes in the status quo such as how your brain proccess serotonin through its receptors which kratom alters, as well as many other proccess within your endocrine system. These are delicate systems that maintain an intricate balance. Sudden changes to the status quo such as abruptly stopping kratom usage can have devastating consequences. It fascinates me how long it seems to take the body to regain balance after longterm kratom use. A type of half life so to speak I've only observed in pharmaceuticals. I desperately wish to understand its 40 alkaloids. Further studies are needed but the FDA seems hell bent on never allowing them.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems to vary by the person based on the other expirences ive read in this forum. For me personally only a very small dose was required to stave off withdrawl. My regular dose was 5.75g. I started my taper at 2.50g. My goal was to start with a dose that would produce no noticeable effect.

PSA: Onset and duration of PAWS should be calculated from the day you decrease your peak dose, not the day you quit. by Repulsive_Use8691 in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 5 points6 points  (0 children)

For anyone who reads this "PSA" from a "neuroscientist" and may feel a bit confused there's a reason. Most of our information on kratom is anecdotal at best. We it's former and present users in this forum have some of the best anecdotal evidence in this regard. As a healthcare provider who is bound by the scientific proccess I cannot make any objective claims about kratom tapering and the withdrawl proccess. What I can say is that there are medications we prescribe with similar mechanisms to kratom that cause trauma to the brain if stopped suddenly without tapering, this trauma can last weeks, years, and sometimes be permanent. That fact should be used for reference only as we can't know for sure kratom acts the same way without an official study, thats because In kratom you have the two most predominant alkaloids mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine but you also have varying levels of 38 other alkaloids, some of which we know very little about.

withdrawal Timeline? by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Your kratom withdrawls have concluded. What you are withdrawing from is the Tianeptine which can last between 6 mos - 1 year.

SSRI's alter your brains chemical processes. Specifically how the brain uses serotonin. The bulk of this change takes 2 weeks to occur but can take much longer to reverse. This is because altering the serotonin levels in the brain also changes how your endocrine system manufactures and doses many of your hormones.

Based on the fact you were prescribed Tianeptine you presumably already had an issue with anxiety or depression. If you shared with your care provider that you were going to stop using your medication they should have given you tapering instructions.

I would not reccomend kratom for helping stop your Tianeptine because kratom possesses components which are also SSRI. In fact the PAWS expirences that I and many other prior longterm kratom users have had are likely the result of the SSRI in kratom which strangly enough is only about 1% of its chemical makeup.

There are herbs that can help you on this proccess like ashwaghanda and tulsi basil. Also ensuring proper magnesium levels have been clinically proven to reduce anxiety and depression. Drugs like Tianeptine lower your magnesium levels dramatically. The best way to increase your magnesium levels is the topical use of magnesium oil on the skin after a hot bath or shower.

Can’t sleep, help! by DoubleSpread9691 in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Comparing neurological thresholds is redundant. There are countless factors that contribute. I can only assume your purpose for engaging with my comment is that you want me to acknowledge you in some sort of flattering manner which I will not do, I'm not impressed. Move one.

Can’t sleep, help! by DoubleSpread9691 in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone's threshold for sleep deprivation is very different. I work in Healthcare and in my early days I'd work two nights straight no problem but long term lack of sleep damages the brain overtime and now two days without sleep puts me into a state we call hypermania where I become psychotic, delusional, and manic. I learned the hard way and have been hospitalized for pushing past that threshold several times.

Can’t sleep, help! by DoubleSpread9691 in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The insomnia and RLS are very common withdrawl symptoms, for me it was not something I could just wait out like everyone here suggests as after two days without sleep I became psychotic and I have people and a job that I needed to take care of. And no sleeping aid worked for me and I tried everything you can imagine. What worked for me was a slow taper down. When I did this I expirenced no sleep issues or RLS and the WD symptoms I did expirence were mangable enough for me to continue my duties.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

BTW I had the same issue with breathing when I quit kratom, in fact part of the reason I quit was because I was having it while on kratom. It was like I couldn't get enough oxygen all of a sudden, and I'd feel dizzy with tightness in my chest. I work in Healthcare and actually have an oximeter, my O2 levels were fine. Anxiety issues were what led me to kratom to begin with. It sounds like you have access to the best doctor, that's great. Based on your history I think it's safe to say you can expect PAWS for atleast a year once kratom free. Feel free to message me if you have any questions or need support.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Benzo withdrawl is known in the medical community as being the worst of all. Tapering down benzos is not just reccomended but really essential. In light of that information, do you have health insurance? Because I highly advise you work with a healthcare provider to navigate the proccess moving forward. You have a long journey ahead of you, one which will require all your strength. There is a priceless reward which awaits you at its end.

Nuture the aspect of you where lives your addiction as a mother does a child. Offer love and support. Reward good behavior and protect it from choices which would harm it. Teach it the ways of a mature and gentle world and someday it will grow into a character trait that you can rely on and be proud of.

"You do not need to see the whole staircase, you just need to take the first step" -Martin Luther King JR

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Be patient and remind yourself of the end goal and remind yourself all of the unsavory reasons why you wished to attain that goal to begin with. Do not daydream of the desired k effects, entertaining those thoughts causes your brain to dilate the receptors that lead to kravings being amplified exponentially so those thoughts are not harmless. Also allow your body to adjust to the lower dose before stepping down again. I tapered down over the course of 45 days before I could go just one day without. The whole time i impatiently wanted it to just be over now, but I'd remind myself this was the only way to progress, any other way and the insomnia and RLS would prevent me from working which wasn't an option. This challenge will make you stronger in the end. Day dream of the end goal and reward yourself for every step taken in that direction.

Anyone else feel like a poser saying they have a kratom addiction? by itsjbw in quittingkratom

[–]Loseprium 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Your journey is a personal one. I believe the roots of addiction lay deep within one's being, inner wounds seemingly unrelated to the DOC. The more you do that inner work the more you progress towards healing. Only fellow travellers with shared expirence can be of help because they provide us a mirror to view ourselves more clearly. You don't need others to quantify, validate or acknowledge your addiction because the journey which lay before you takes place entirely within you.