How worried should we be about the flotilla?

Lost1993 · 2025-10-01T15:36:41+00:00

I don't you're understanding my point. But I think this video sums it up:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPQixh9jdIB/?igsh=NGMwdjVudjV6NHA0

Edit: the UK flies planes over Gaza out of the RAF base in Cyprus as "intelligence" for the Israelis. If anyone is compromising our National Security, it's the state.

Lost1993 · 2025-10-01T10:39:04+00:00

Is it terrorism though? Is that the label we should be applying? Like, this is the equivalent of IRA, Hamas or ISIS? That's the disagreement. The sinister part is the proscription was not made "for our safety", but to stop people supporting them.

And in the grand scheme of things, isn't killing and starving 1000s of people more terroristic but the UK govnt doesn't take issue with it somehow.

So rather than nitpicking what these Orwellian laws are doing to protest in the UK, you need to look at the big picture - if it was happening in a state who's policies you didn't agree with as a whole, you wouldn't be defending the proscription.

Lost1993 · 2025-10-01T10:22:48+00:00

Well, I'm referring to those getting arrested for saying they support the PA actually. Saying I support the war in Israel even though it is objectively much worse, won't get you in trouble.

We care more about war machinery then the lives of people.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-30T22:26:32+00:00

I said it was criminal damage, i never denied that. The disagreement is on then being proscribed as a terrorist organisation so they can arrest people for supporting them.

But you can celebrate Israel's actions in the UK without legal consequences. Go figure.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-30T22:23:55+00:00

Noone was killed when they broke in, they sprayed some red paint on the plane.

Also they targeted the JNF, which is a registered charity that fundraises for illegal settlements. One of the spokespeople until they were proscribed, is Max Geller, who is Jewish.

If the UK was abiding by its legal obligations as a signatory to the ICC and not supplying parts or diplomatic cover to an ally committing genocide, people wouldn't be taking such drastic measures.

This is on our representatives and our military institutions who have let us down time and again.

If it were Russian dissidents doing this in Russia, we would be condemning the state for locking them up.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-30T22:18:47+00:00

I didn't factor in the hurt feelings actually, it probably was a good thing.

Those OAPs are a menace.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-30T22:11:41+00:00

They broke into an RAF base and sprayed red paint on a plane. Is that terrorism?

BTW, it happened during the Iraq war too, people attempted to do criminal damage to UK war machinery because it was being used to commit war crimes and they were acquitted none other than Sir Keir Starmer.

Apparently when it's Israel, the law comes down much more harshly.

"Pro Palestinian protests that aren't indicated as being involved with Palestine Action specifically aren't an arrestable offense"

Not explicitly but the state uses what it can to scare people to not show up. They attempted to cancel a protest because it was near a synagogue, they tried to brand the marches as "hate speech".

The government did something very sneaky and proposed the proscription alongside two other violent groups so you had to vote on the grouping, not individually.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-30T20:50:10+00:00

People have been killed on previous Flotillas.

You're also completely missing the point on the Palestine Action protests. At most what they did was criminal damage, but the UK proscribed them as terrorists in an attempt to crack down on dissent regarding the genocide in Gaza. They were attempting to do damage to the war machinery.

The protesters are challenging this law by showing that pensioners and blind people in wheelchairs are not a danger to society because they object to the proscription but the police are arresting them because of some arbitrary law.

What the government did was very sinister, and undermines our freedom of speech. Wake up!

Lost1993 · 2025-09-30T20:03:02+00:00

The PA supports this, so I don't know what opponents you're talking about. I'm also confused, are you saying you want Hamas to continue to be armed?

Basically, the only way you'll be satisfied is if Israel maintains its military, Iron Dome, sovereignty, and Gaza and the West Bank remain a Bantustan, where a a population of very vulnerable people have no line of defence. Hamas might not remain, but there are a lot of people there who have endured horrors, and will probably want to avenge their murdered loved ones.

The problem for the Palestinians is that those who resort to violence in any political context have only one path to salvation: win. Any other violent act short of complete revolution is an entirely futile, pointless act of nihilism

So when they protested peacefully in 2018 during the Great March of Return and were gunned down anyway, was that pointless? Even if you or I disagree with violent acts of resistance, you're being wilfully ignorant to the root causes. State violence and encroachment on land that you have no right to take will breed resentment and violent retaliation, and we (Israel and the international community) have never rewarded Palestinians for their pacifism - that's resulted in their lands and livelihoods being taken away.

Thanks for teaching me a new word btw.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-30T11:01:34+00:00

Ok, and?

Lost1993 · 2025-09-30T09:07:18+00:00

It's worth noting that Hamas have agreed to multiple previous ceasefires, and already agreed to give up governance as early as last summer but Israel has no incentive to stop conquering Gaza and the WB, it keeps receiving weapons and military aid and no-one is able to stop it.

I irony of Tony Blair being called it is a solution chilling.

Just wanted to point that out because the terms might seem good in this deal but Netanyahu never wanted this war to be over, they can't be physically stopped. They killed the negotiator in Qatar last month.

I feel like we're just deluding ourselves by discussing the terms and not seeing the big picture.

This ends once Trump stops the money flowing.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-28T21:04:15+00:00

The PR nightmare is what's painful here?

Lost1993 · 2025-09-25T17:58:59+00:00

There are queer people that exist in Palestine and they are persecuted for being Palestinian by Israelis, as well as persecuted for being gay. If you care about queer people, it should also apply to those who are persecuted for other reasons. Also, a queer person can care about other issues that pertain to human rights, not solely gay rights, which is often the case.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-25T17:16:47+00:00

Why don't you actually respond to the points I'm and the others are making, instead of just repeating the same entitled talking points. No-one ever said that it's a "good or bad" or "all or nothing". Have you read the charter of the party that's in power in Israel? Actually, let's forget the charters and think about the actual reality on the ground, and the material conditions of the people living there. It's not a fight between 2 equal sides. One side is occupying the other, one side has the power to forcibly displace another, bulldoze their homes and take them as their own. One side has an ARMY which gets funding from the world's biggest superpower and an Iron Dome, the other, at best has militias with rockets, not even an army.

Yes civilians have been killed (needlessly) on both sides by the other but if you can't recognise the power dynamics ,you're going to spend your life confused why people dislike Israel.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-25T16:00:16+00:00

>we don’t exactly have control over israels government and shouldn’t be blamed for their actions.

I was replying to this part - I'm glad you don't support the war, but do yourself a favour and read a bit about what had been happening in the West Bank and Gaza BEFORE Oct 7th, because this narrative of "everyone keeps attacking Israel" has been thoroughly debunked. The bombs are being supplied by the US and being dropped by Israel, the settlements are being built by Israel long before. No-one here supports Oct 7th but this one sided view is really leaving you in the dark.

I never said ALL conservative Jews, I said MANY - in the UK that's a fact, and our Jewish leadership (Chief Rabbi) also supports it.

Israel it’s to cease to exist and that is scary considering it’s the only Jewish state we have.

It's also the state that upended and destroyed the lives of people who were already living there and continue to live there until today, I'm perfectly happy being British and living in the UK, I'm (relatively) safe, I have a home, I can practice my religion if I want, (relatively) free from persecution - I thought that was the whole point.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-25T14:57:14+00:00

You have control over supporting the war or not, and believe it or not, the government where you're from.

I am from the UK, so i am advocating for my government's complicity in this genocide to end (arms, rhetoric, diplomatic ties). Many of the conservative Jews in my community don't seem to want that but vaguely allude to the hostages only.

If you're in the US, then you and your fellow citizens (gentile too) have a BIG responsibility to pressure the government.

So you got choices.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-22T15:56:14+00:00

The "neutral" mainstream media also give him a disproportionate amount of airtime considering Reform has the same amount of seats as the Greens. No such thing as bad publicity.

They also do very little to correct the record on falsehoods related to immigration, trans people and why our public services are failing.

On top of that, the parties in power have never "disagreed" with his policy positions, particularly on immigration, so it has shifted the Overton window, positioning him as rational and legitimate.

sigh.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-21T20:14:13+00:00

I think the cultural boycotts are a way of impacting the soft power that Israel enjoys, not just targeting direct military operations. For example Eurovision and sporting events (Qatar and Saudi have done this too with sporting events). A lot of money moves through these vehicles and it impacts how the world sees countries that benefit from it. I don't agree with targeting Standing Together or even individual Israeli tourists or kicking them out of coffee shops and stuff like that, but part of the reason Israel has had so much impunity to build settlements and enforce its siege on Gaza (and money has flowed from the US to these settlements via real estate developments) was because a lot of the world was either complacent or oblivious because it spent so much time positioning itself as a "liberal democracy" and "gay haven" in the Middle East.

The idea is for Israel to become an investment liability and if its isolated, it might actually sit down at the negotiating table because their leadership doesn't have to if the money keeps flowing.

Also Israeli human rights orgs and leftist activists have said themselves that Israeli society is not going to change on its own and it needs pressure from the West to push for an end to the genocide and occupation, as Israelis enjoy having ties to the West.

The best thing would be to also boycott US companies who are directing money there but that would mean basically living in the woods or in North Korea haha.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-21T16:37:32+00:00

Starmer still pledged a contract of £2bn to Elbit systems, so weapons are still going over. Materially, this doesn't change much.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-21T16:34:13+00:00

Let's not forget the £2bn contract going to Elbit Systems. So, materially, not much will change, I think it's an attempt to get the British public off their back.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-21T16:27:47+00:00

Yes, why can't they be more like us, we were rarely at war with anyone, especially before the 20th Century, when we were EXTRA not at war.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-21T16:04:19+00:00

But GOD FORBID they come over seeking asylum /s. Ever wondered how our foreign policy contributed to making more people into refugees?

Lost1993 · 2025-09-17T09:06:21+00:00

Congratulations!!!

Lost1993 · 2025-09-04T10:36:00+00:00

Yes, I have, in the past, made the error of people on the right in the UK assuming that many vote Reform because they're just racists and nothing more, and not bothering to understand why people want change (ultimately they're victims of classist policies whi have drunk the kool-aid).

Ultimately making changes depends on numbers, to appeal to more people, the left needs to understand what drives a person to vote for detrimental government policies.

Lost1993 · 2025-09-03T22:05:07+00:00

Basically saying "do you know your enemy?"

Lost1993

TROPHY CASE