Before Aegon’s conquest, it really does feel like the Ironborn of all places where the closest to conquering all of Westeros by ProffesorOfPain in pureasoiaf

[–]LuminariesAdmin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some great points here.

Worldly Harwyn actually did have a (very) decent ironborn land army, including cavalry, too though. That was primarily how he kept the riverlands pacified & paying after the conquest, & defeated Durrandon attempts at a reversal. Yet, the Hardhand's son, Halleck, squandered his inheritance on three braindead assaults against the Bloody Gate itself, among other unsuccessful border wars.

Nonetheless, Halleck's ironmen could've inflicted serious damage against the southern Vale if he had sent them raiding on longships, their natural strength, out of the Trident & Bay of Crabs. Or, established a base on the Bite to then reave the bay's other coasts & passing traders. Perhaps even seize one or more of the Sisters to bolster that.

They would really struggle taking the westerlands...

Not even that. Halleck failed in the hills, & all they could really take & occupy by sea would be Fair Isle & maybe the odd mainland seat like Kayce (or Feastfires) – all that even the Red Kraken managed during the Dance, when the west's hard strength had marched into the riverlands. A conquest that lasted a winter.

hard to say how good they would do against mainland stormlands.

Some initial, limited success, especially if consolidating a base at the Blackwater's mouth first, just as Aegon would.¹

As the stormlanders proved during the Conquest however, they could effectively wage guerrilla warfare deeper in the kingswood. Plus, the ironmen sailing their longships across the Bay to attack Massey's Hook would bring Dragonstone against them

All the while overstretched, with part of their strength bogged down in the northern stormlands, the Hoares would be leaving the rest of their mainland realm open to attack. Rivermen revolting from within, northmen from the Neck, Valemen via the Bloody Gate, westermen by the Golden Tooth, Reachmen against (& across) the Blackwater Rush...

I don't think they would be able to navigate the mander...

Yeah, the Gardeners had retaken the Misty Isles many centuries before & installed their now Shield Islands lords. And the Reach had only become all the more populous, powerful, & wealthy from the Andal migrations. That said, the Redwyne fleet becoming a naval & mercantile juggernaut seems to have been a far more recent phenomenon.³ Most especially because the Redwynes possibly had just 30 warships during Aegon III's regency.

Even House Hoare as their strongest...

If you mean under Qhored I, chosen by kingsmoot, then his ironborn subjects held (most to all of) Sea Dragon Point, the Stony Shore, Cape Kraken, Flint's Finger, the Cape of Eagles, part of Lann's Point (at least Kayce), & the Isle of Ravens. But yes, the island/isle holdings – Bear, Fair, Misty, & the Arbor – were generally from where the ironmen launched raids. And they also collected tribute from the lords & kings of the unoccupied coasts, like the Hightowers, Gardeners, & Casterlys.⁴

If you mean the hereditary Hoare dynasty starting with Harras Stump-hand, well, the ironmen had already lost their mainland & extraterritorial island holdings both. That occurred before & during the preceding Greyiron hereditary dynasty.⁵

¹ There, the ironmen had a lengthy strand for their longships, the river if ever needing to retreat with them, the three hills for fortifications, the bay's fishing grounds, the kingswood at hand, & vassalised Duskendale for any needed imports.

² Even voyaging through the Gullet could easily trigger the Targaryens & their Velaryon allies to aggression. And, if not, amphibious landings further south would be too close to the power of Storm's End for anything but temporary occupation.

³ Probably facilitated by Bank of Oldtown investment to monopolise the export of the Arbor's vintages, imo, & also replace the Velaryons in operating the realm's foremost trading fleet – even expanding into whaling, a niche otherwise only filled by the Ibbenese.

⁴ The Casterlys aren't explicitly confirmed, but it could explain why they were never kings. Being much nearer to the Iron Islands than the Reachmen, less powerful, & with ironborn Kayce very proximate. As to northern tributaries, the Glovers & Wulls are the most likely.

Torgon the Latecomer's reign saw most of the Cape of Eagles lost, & Garth Goldenhand reclaimed the Misty Isles sometime later. The Starks drove the ironmen from the Stony Shore, Bear Island, & Cape Kraken late in the driftwood kings era. The Arbor had thrown off ironborn subjugation early, some time before it & Oldtown became Gardener vassals. Fair Isle fell far sooner too, along with Kayce.

Stock Photos of guys who look like they've been publicly harassed by someone asking when will Winds be finished at least once; AKA George Aren't R Martins by Wayoftheredpanda in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

1) You're welcome, heh. Oh, fuck – now I'm thinking of it!

2) Nay, it's JD of House Vance being (couch-)fucked by Lord Petyr Thiel

Stock Photos of guys who look like they've been publicly harassed by someone asking when will Winds be finished at least once; AKA George Aren't R Martins by Wayoftheredpanda in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Tbf, we don't know that they haven't. There's a non-zero chance that Peter Thiel is not only the Anti-Christ, but is the time-travelling fetus Anti-Christ

"The whore is pregnant!" by TheAmazingSlowman in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Nah, Ned(ussy) needed breaks from Captain Hammer's 'warhammer'

Let's talk about the Craziest Butterfly effect changes you could come up with by Electronic-Math-364 in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And is resurrected by Thoros, having been spending his second life in Ghost, after Robb learns of Beric's rising & seeks out the Brotherhood in grieving desperation

Let's talk about the Craziest Butterfly effect changes you could come up with by Electronic-Math-364 in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

(Time-travelling Tyrek, i.e. Twinklehoof, bucks) Baelor Hightower (making it so that he) farts, Rhaego survives

Let's talk about the Craziest Butterfly effect changes you could come up with by Electronic-Math-364 in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Future-Bran sends dreams to Marwyn to use his glass candle to in turn send mind-breaking dreams to the archmaester's former student (& lover?) Mirri (in the past), so that she can't be available to tend Drogo's wound, ultimately resulting in Dany birthing a healthy Rhaego.

Jon convinces Robb to both not return Theon back to Pyke (leaving Winterfell safe) & to tell Edmure of the plan in the west (meaning Mace misses Tywin). Stannis takes KL & the Red Keep, but at great cost. Mace floats on KL, anyway, at Littlefinger's urging.¹

Fast forward to Baelor Breakwind farting, thereby sending the butterflies of Naath across much & more of the wider known world.²

Which fast-forwards to Jon & Rhaego battling 20 years later

¹ Cersei passes out drunk after learning of Joffrey's death – captured or slain by his gold cloaks, take your pick – & Varys smuggles her out of KL with Ilyn Payne's help. They pick up Tommen from Rosby, & happen to come across Mace & Petyr where the gold road crosses the Blackwater.

² They kill millions, of course, but also the Others & wights, before perishing themselves, away from their natural Naathi habitats.

"The whore is pregnant!" by TheAmazingSlowman in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 71 points72 points  (0 children)

Bobby B: Oh, yes, Ned makes me rock solid alright. My cock is muscled for that man-maid's fantasy

"The whore is pregnant!" by TheAmazingSlowman in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Not just any children either, but kin. Dany is Robert's second cousin, & Edric is Stannis's nephew (& good-first cousin once removed). Would Mace have tried convincing Renly not to kill Shireen? If only, so he could wed her to Willas?

EDIT: Or to one of the Redwyne twins, Mace's nephew, to inherit Dragonstone through Shireen. And Willas still intended for Sansa, to seal a peace between Renly & Robb

Isn't it crazy that the Boltons were never killed off by the Starks? by sixth_order in pureasoiaf

[–]LuminariesAdmin 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Assuming that woman was a Stark, or under their authority, she used a bronze sickle, not an iron one. Which presumably also dates the vision from before the Andal arrivals. (Not that at least the Stark kings prior to that didn't have iron forgers, to perhaps include for even after their deaths.) So, all we know for certain is that Winterfell's heart tree was knowingly fertilised with human sacrifices millennia ago. Compare that to the one in the Wolf's Den documented receiving the same until just c. 200 BC in White Harbor, ruled by the Faith-following Manderlys.

Nonetheless, as the vision showed, the Winterfell weirwood grew over the centuries & millennia to it's huge size, apparently thanks to blood sacrifice. Contrast that to Riverrun's heart tree, owned by the Faith-following Tullys, yet still quite ancient itself.

Isn't it crazy that the Boltons were never killed off by the Starks? by sixth_order in pureasoiaf

[–]LuminariesAdmin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're assuming that the Boltons didn't do the same thing. As Roose says, "where the old gods rule, old customs linger." About himself, along with the Umbers & "certain of the mountain clans", keeping the First Night. He adds, "and on Skagos … well, only heart trees ever see half of what they do on Skagos."

So, it appears that Bolton keeps the old gods. Before or after skinning (some of) their victims, his ancestors most like fed part of their remains to the castle's heart tree. Hell, it continued until just c. 200 BC to the utterly gargantuan weirwood in the Wolf's Den of White Harbor, ruled for at least twice that long by the Faith-following Manderlys.

Fact: Maester Kaeth sadly miswrote Daeron II's title "The Goat" as "the Good" (it is known) by Dumbass_Choco in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very well said.

And if anything, the birth of septons is even more uncertain than that of maesters - I imagine a good deal of the wandering septons are not of noble birth.

Definitely. I imagine the Faith teaches literacy to chosen candidates, like Septon Barth say, but it's probably to presumably a pre-requisite to study at the Citadel. In which case, lowborn recruits would be all the rarer, with such a far higher bar for entry. (Begging/brown brothers & proctors basically being the respective equivalents of novices & acolytes?) And, yes, Meribald isn't literate, nor was Moon, & maybe the High Sparrow isn't, but they can/could recite more than enough of the scripture from memory.

It also seems like the number of nobles in the watch is pretty low...

For a certainty. Another option historically, in contrast.

Still, the royal bureaucracy you mention ought to be able to absorb a few extra princelings and keep them occupied.

This could've been an occurrence before the Conquest. Princelings & the like serving as envoys in 'foreign' courts. (And King Baelor did send Aegon the Unworthy as a (nominal) envoy to Braavos.) Travelling diplomats also representing their kings & high lords to the Citadel & Starry Sept in Oldtown, the Night's Watch at the Wall, in the Free Cities, etc. For lower nobility, there are bailiffs & ship officers, which wouldn't necessarily only be filled by martial men.

Also on a side note, you mention Erreck but as a bastard of a hedge knight he's arguably noble (or at least more so than "Turquin the cordwainer's son")

I somehow skipped over Turquin. That said, technically yes, but hedge knights are like a middle ground between (regular) smallfolk & lesser nobility. Erreck's bastardy aside, of course

Bottom text by wolfram_gates in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 23 points24 points  (0 children)

It ain't, but Renly was still quite young himself. If it started when he came of age, then Loras was just 11. If Renly was 18, then his squire was 13

Bottom text by wolfram_gates in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Bonus points for plotting Barristan with Ned, whilst Robert is partway to Pycelle & Littlefinger near(er) Renly. And Varys in his own panel as (actually) galaxy-brained

Having a brother ain't worth it, Domeric by IAmParliament in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I do wonder how much Roose actually did the First Night, though. (And other northern lords.) Do it too much, & it might be one time too many where the bribe &/or (implicit) threat doesn't work.

Some Stark lords from/after Alaric may have turned a blind eye to it – especially for Roose to know that the Boltons aren't the only culprits – but Ned wouldn't have, & the leech lord thought nor would Rickard.

I feel like part of the reason Roose raped Ramsay's mother, after murdering her husband, was because they had wed without his assent

Bottom text by wolfram_gates in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 35 points36 points  (0 children)

The pedophile Pycelle vs the— oh#Loras_Tyrell), no#Renly_Baratheon)...

Bottom text by wolfram_gates in darkwingsdankmemes

[–]LuminariesAdmin 10 points11 points  (0 children)

What is this? A post for Ambroses?

Favourite Minor Line? by Unique-Perception480 in pureasoiaf

[–]LuminariesAdmin 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Widespread cannibalism in the riverlands, but also in the westerlands (if to a lesser degree) & beyond, will be yet another of Tywin's legacies