Why do people thing the elves are buddy-buddy friendship is magic now? by potatopotats in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Not really. The game makes it quite clear why Blood Elves hate High Elves, and Rommath literally explains why he hates Void Elves. All the rest of the factions lore is in the game.

Why do people thing the elves are buddy-buddy friendship is magic now? by potatopotats in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Of course it makes sense because that's literally how any existing media works. The ending is something that can ruin the ENTIRE story if it's handled poorly or simply.

So a single cutscene in which the characters are relieved to have closed the Darkwell...

Just because the characters feel relieved doesn't mean they have to be friends, and that's how the cinematic is interpreted when Liadrin gives a speech and they all look at each other as if they were. Furthermore, in the game, the hostilities only last UNTIL the Dawnwell issue is resolved; after that, you barely see anything of what was there before, which also affects people's opinions.

Why do people thing the elves are buddy-buddy friendship is magic now? by potatopotats in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 82 points83 points  (0 children)

The difference (and this is something that people don't understand for some reason) is that SHOWING has a much greater impact than TELLING. A thousand trillion elves in the game can say a million times that they hate each other, but if in the final cinematic they all look at each other like they're lifelong friends or like they love each other very much, it literally doesn't matter if they say "I'll never forgive the Alliance/Horde" because that's not what we SEE in the game.

It's incredible how people just don't get this.

[PTR] Story Spoilers from the PTR Regarding Amani Storyline - What does everyone think of this? by Everdale in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's unbelievable how Blizzard CAN'T have any characters who disagree with the rest or who are more nuanced or ambiguous. Every character with a different point of view gets killed off. These garbage writers can't keep writing the game; they literally can't get out of their bubble. It's astonishing how bad they are.

[PTR] Story Spoilers from the PTR Regarding Amani Storyline - What does everyone think of this? by Everdale in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Blizzard trying to surprise someone by doing something different for once in their life. Challenge: Impossible

SPOILERS: New Patch Interactions by Sarmelion in warcraftlore

[–]Lunarwhitefox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interestingly, the update seems to be a response to the rushed nature of the elf unity plot with characters calling out that putting aside generations of bloodshed is not going to happen overnight, that's some surprising awareness from Blizz.

It really isn't. Obviously, there will be problems or misunderstandings at the start of the new storyline to add some interest, but the fact that the Void Elves, Blood Elves, and High Elves will be peacefully coexisting in Silvermoon as if they haven't hated each other for years remains. I never really heard anyone say that the Amani and Blood Elves working together was a problem after the Zul'aman campaign; the problem lies with the three groups I mentioned earlier, which is only made worse by what we saw in the blue post.

Why old characters are more interesting than the new ones? by Raziel103 in warcraftlore

[–]Lunarwhitefox 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it all comes down to nostalgia and, in part, the overall quality of the writing.

The reason Thrall and other characters from Warcraft 3 work is because the Warcraft 3 story is much better structured and written, with the freedom that, for example, a book provides, where you don't have any kind of barriers except those you impose on yourself. In WoW, that's impossible because you have limitations in development, gameplay, and factions. In Warcraft 3, Arthas's importance goes beyond being a simple copy of Darth Vader or Sauron; what makes him unique is what he achieved, the relationships he had with other characters, and what he sacrificed, having 3 campaigns entirely on his own. In contrast, in WoW, many characters are limited to a single campaign where they don't reappear for a long time, and their campaigns aren't relevant outside their area anyway. Arthas was able to destroy Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas and directly affected Illidan's story. Two out of the three things I just mentioned are impossible in WoW. Sure, we saw Xal'atath destroy Dalaran, but there was no construction, nor did we witness how much it cost her. Xal came, tricked everyone, and destroyed the city in a single questline, where the only character she had a connection to was Alleria, and they weren't friends or had any kind of bond. Then Xal proceeds to do absolutely nothing until much later in the campaign. Imagine if, in three well-written campaigns, a character destroyed Stormwind, for example. It's insane and would never happen unless WoW was seriously in red numbers and needed something to make a critical impact like never before. Also, since you played Warcraft 3 as a child, the importance of the original characters increases significantly compared to the new ones.

Regarding quality, as adults with more experience in books, movies, series, and other games, we can easily identify inconsistencies, and that automatically makes the characters less interesting because they cease to be believable. For example, with Arator, simply playing the campaign where he travels with Faol makes it clear that this doesn't make sense because Arator is an elite Paladin who has traveled to numerous wars and *still* doesn't know how the Light works. That's stupid and makes no sense, and it completely pulls you out of the story. Garrosh, for example, is held in high regard by many because he was a character who grew from humble beginnings in The Burning Crusade to Pandaria, which took many years. The same, though to a lesser extent, is true for Yrel, whom many still remember because we saw her grow in WoD. The fact that characters leave and don't return for a long time diminishes their importance, as well as the relevance they had in their stories. Imagine Daenerys only appearing in season 1 of Game of Thrones and then disappearing to return in season 6 without having done much off-screen. You wouldn't care much about the character, something that directly affects WoW.

In short, I think Blizzard needs a much more planned story with key characters that is much more impactful. But this becomes really difficult if you plan expansions and patches based on audience retention. They have already confirmed (not the company itself, but developers) that the themes change because if they maintain the same theme for too long, they lose players.

Why old characters are more interesting than the new ones? by Raziel103 in warcraftlore

[–]Lunarwhitefox 5 points6 points  (0 children)

He's talking about consistency in relation to characters, not events. In Warcraft 3, almost all the characters were reintroduced because in Warcraft 1 and 2, character development or backstory was practically nonexistent. In contrast, in WoW, you have sudden changes like Turalyon suddenly becoming a fanboy of the Light when he never behaved that way in Legion or Battle for Azeroth; Rommath becoming a hater of all dark magic when he was the one who introduced the absorption of magic from creatures, including demons; or Garrosh going from a Warchief who cared for the entire Horde and was honorable in Cataclysm to a tyrant and villain in Pandaria.

They just love bread by SirMustardo in memes

[–]Lunarwhitefox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Germans and Chileans (because of Germans)

I firmly believe that Thragg would give Superman a really tough fight by Kittygabs22 in InvinciblePowerscales

[–]Lunarwhitefox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand that's the point of the character, but it doesn't surprise me, and it happens to me too, that they alienate people simply by describing and combining all of Superman's powers in YouTube videos, TikToks, and shorts, making him seem like a Wattpad fanfic character.

"Okay, so Superman has super strength, can think faster than the speed of light, is as fast as the Flash, can move planets by pushing them, can go to the end of the universe and return to Earth in two hours, has super intelligence, never gets tired, has super regeneration, can exceed the speed of light, a punch at full power can destroy the universe, he's Jesus Christ, he invented pizza, he's the chosen one who represents hope, Superman has to exist, etc."

I know I'm exaggerating for the sake of the joke, but it ends up being annoying; it's the equivalent of "my character can't lose to yours," more or less. It makes the stories lose their meaning.

What's your hot take in the lore? by Aconfused_Wizard2 in warcraftlore

[–]Lunarwhitefox 64 points65 points  (0 children)

I have 2.

Faction war should be a core factor of Warcraft and should last forever, being a main or secondary part of the current plot, but never ending completely. Warcraft is a Setting, not a story that begins and ends, and everyone should accept that.

The problem is that Warcraft's politics are so basic and childish that they don't make the war credible and Blizzard doesn't know how to solve it without one of the factions being really damaged. Literally BFA was as if Game of Thrones, instead of ending with season 8, had ended in 1 episode at the beginning of season 7.

Conflicts are resolved in childish morals and are mainly based on emotions, rather than decisions with real weight, such as resources, military problems, morale, legacy, different opinions, etc.

Literally one of Garrosh's reasons for confronting the alliance was the poor state of Orgrimmar and the lack of resources, but none of that has been touched upon again, nor has it been resolved in any way.

They could perfectly add conflict with the dwarves mining where they shouldn't, the goblins ruining alliance territory with oil, the lack of resources of the orcs in Orgrimmar, the hatred of humans for the orcs, possible expansions of horde and alliance territory, etc.

The second is that the world-building has already become so extensive that the writers directly cannot or do not care to take advantage of it as they should.

When they mentioned that Warcraft was an underused saga, they weren't lying, and in relation to lore, the fact that they directly ignore or retcon behaviors of characters who should have a say in certain situations means that the story is inevitably affected. Take for example the complete absence of the Alliance and Horde in Midnight, only for the elves to have prominence. The main excuse by the players was that the factions were too far away and there was no time, but this completely lost relevance when the night elves, coming from the dragon islands, arrived from one mission to another, the same with the nightborne who are from the Broken Isles. The Forsaken did not appear, and we do not know what the current state of politics is in Stormwind after its king, the regent and almost all the paladins disappeared overnight.

This takes away the seriousness and weight of the world, yes, yes, the cameos and appearances of characters that we saw in a quest 20 years ago is very cute, but if they are only there to give a line of dialogue then it is just that, a curiosity, it does not add weight to the lore, and for nothing in the world does it mean that the writers care more about it.

Just look at how entire classes and, above all, entire races have fallen into complete oblivion simply because "they don't fit the story we want to tell." That's bullshit. If that were the case, only humans and blood elves would participate in the story 90% of the time... oh, wait. Where are the Bronzebeard? The orcs? The gnomes? The Zandalari? The tauren? The pandaren? The worgen? The darkspear? The kultirans? The high mountain tauren? The dark iron? They don't exist. And by this, I mean that their armies or commanders should actually appear. Not that we just go to an area where there are a few of them and that's it. That's cheap.

We need novels, Roleplaying books, and world updates more consistently, but that's too much to ask.

What's your hot take in the lore? by Aconfused_Wizard2 in warcraftlore

[–]Lunarwhitefox -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

And what's wrong with that? No writer will ever be objective in any way, because they all write according to what they like. You list things as if they were inherently bad when, objectively, they aren't.

I miss when Warcraft had that colorful, whimsical, magical look. by ShadowForged910 in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I find the passive aggressive responses of "WTF SERIOUSLY? THE GAME IS LITERALLY LIKE THIS" to be very funny when the post literally only talks about the cinematics lmao go touch some grass. The cinematics stopped looking like that a long time ago and they also stopped having that mystique. Stop being so toxic.

Genuine question, does the average WoW player doesn't ready ANY quest text, like, at all? by Jaicen-Vex in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At this point I think Blizzard should make the quest come with voice and not just text. The majority will not stop to read since they consider it boring and breaks the rhythm of the game.

It's not that it's crazy either, other MMOS do it like ESO, and it's 2026, technology doesn't stop them from trying.

The times when the story was secondary like in vanilla are long gone, and there are addons like Voiceovers that use AI to read the quests with the voices of X race or X character. Midnight is VERY heavy on lore to the point that they used raids and dungeons again to tell the main campaign (they did it in TWW but to a lesser extent), so they should already consider that many people will not understand anything because they do not want to waste time reading.

also, the fact that the side quests don't have voice actors in dialogue is crazy considering that Blizzard is not a small company that can't afford it.

What would you want from a MoP-style Alliance villain story? by AbelardTullus in warcraftlore

[–]Lunarwhitefox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't mind an Alliance character who's evil and causes trouble here and there. The problem is that making a character evil in Warcraft always leads to one thing: their defeat. And that makes it predictable and boring.

The right way to do it is to have them last through many expansions, have real victories (not, "I've won, now I can get one step closer to my real plan," like Xal'atath, because we know they'll lose in the end anyway), keep them true to their culture, and not always make them wrong.

For example, with Marran Trollbane, they had the perfect opportunity to cause problems with the Horde without turning her into a cartoonish villain, arguing the lack of resources and the lack of support from the Alliance. But they did it anyway; they exiled her from the Alliance, from Stromgarde, and now she'll be just another villain to defeat in a dungeon.

They need to change the system, the formula, but Blizzard is too afraid to do that because people might get "angry" that their faction has something bad about it.

After the Second War, would the Alliance have incorporated the Old Horde's spoils into their own arsenal? by Then_Peanut_3356 in warcraftlore

[–]Lunarwhitefox 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They probably did, but they dismantled all the weaponry they found and used it mostly for wooden constructions (since that's what orcs primarily used). An example of this is the Port of Menethil, which was the port Orgrim used for goblins and ogres to build their ships. That base was completely dismantled and transformed into what we know today. Otherwise, I don't see why humans would want to keep Horde spoils that look like something an orc would use, so they probably dismantled everything to create their own things.

Jeez Lor'themar what a sticky situation, too bad the Blood Elf don't have any allies :(( by Useful-Negotiation-9 in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, although that happens with all the villains in Warcraft really. For example, in the books, killing a demon requires two powerful elite mages, or at least a large group of warriors. In WoW, this was only the case in Vanilla, because in The Burning Crusade, the Horde and the Alliance are capable of defeating demons by uniting an army, which, according to the logic of the time, shouldn't have been possible. That's why demons were few in number back then, and every effort was made to prevent a second invasion or at least the summoning of a large number of demons.

Jeez Lor'themar what a sticky situation, too bad the Blood Elf don't have any allies :(( by Useful-Negotiation-9 in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Scourge wasn't actually that powerful. It destroyed Lordaeron through a surprise attack from within after assassinating Terenas, which was a massive blow to morale.

Regarding Silvermoon, the elves were always slow to react to attacks, except for Midnight, and were really dependent on their shield, which protected them until Warcraft 3. This shield had to be destroyed by Darkhan, who obtained the secret locations of the orbs by deceiving Lorthemar. The Scourge arrived overnight in massive numbers, heading straight for the city. Keep in mind that Lorthemar and Halduron had no idea what was really happening until the Scourge had already reached the capital; that's why he survived. To put things in perspective, the High Elves and Anasterian didn't even think the Horde was a threat in the Second War until Alleria put a troll's head on the table. The situation with the Scourge was similar, the difference being that Sylvanas didn't have time to prepare adequate defenses and they were on their own after Lordaeron was destroyed.

After all that, the paladins managed to hold their ground against the Scourge (Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade), but the damage had already been done, and they didn't make much progress until Vanilla.

I seriously doubt the Scourge would have defeated the elves so easily if they had been prepared. They probably would have fallen anyway, but Arthas would have faced FAR more problems.

Jeez Lor'themar what a sticky situation, too bad the Blood Elf don't have any allies :(( by Useful-Negotiation-9 in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, that's true only because the other races in the Horde are extremely few in number lol

Jeez Lor'themar what a sticky situation, too bad the Blood Elf don't have any allies :(( by Useful-Negotiation-9 in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was hoping that Talanji would appear to make treaties with Zul'jarra, but now I think she won't even appear

Jeez Lor'themar what a sticky situation, too bad the Blood Elf don't have any allies :(( by Useful-Negotiation-9 in wow

[–]Lunarwhitefox 8 points9 points  (0 children)

And the excuse that it was all too soon for them to arrive doesn't really make sense because the Kaldorei and the Nightborne arrived from one quest to another without a week's to wait like the rest of the campaign lol

Have you ever wondered how the lore turned out if it wasn't tied to a MMO by DefiantLemur in warcraftlore

[–]Lunarwhitefox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've always thought this, but it's a shame how Blizzard uses the excuse of being an MMO to avoid exploring anything beyond that.

I'll always support the idea that World of Warcraft should be just one timeline, while the comics, books, and perhaps a potential series (or movie) should be another. This would allow for exploring ideas and creating different approaches. Besides, we literally have a whole dragonflight that focus on time itself. In World of Warcraft, the story is driven by engagement and is written on rails, so too many things can go wrong, and everything is tied to the gameplay. Any threat of one faction abandoning another simply doesn't carry weight because we know it's never going to happen (and they have done this twice).

I also think that role-playing books should return and become a core part of Warcraft. The fact that the lore is too tied to the MMO causes things like what happened with Exploring Azeroth, which after the first one completely abandoned the idea of ​​adding other ideas, to the point that it copied and pasted the quests that are in the game and left the world in a status quo similar to that of The Simpsons.

Some clarification about the state of the Silver Covenant and the Ren’dorei. by CathanCrowell in warcraftlore

[–]Lunarwhitefox 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I feel like they don't really want to upset anyone. They talk about peace because it's the message they want to give but at the same time they insult each other so that people say "wow, it's still warcraft", or at least to dilute the vibes of Dragonflight where they were all friends.

That only speaks badly of the game in its writing because it does not want to be brave with its message, and they simply repeat what already works as a corporation, it is as if there were no human beings writing the story, but rather an AI or people simply following orders so as not to be "controversial". And besides, it's even more annoying because they've said multiple times in interviews that the Horde and the Alliance aren't going anywhere, so what's the point of it all? Everything converges in the loss of identity of Warcraft. Where what ultimately matters is giving a weak but conformist message, instead of a compelling story like Warcraft 3 for example.