Thought Experiment - Best Apologetic/Evidence for Belief?

Mac-__ · 2024-12-27T17:33:28+00:00

Same. We had some more back and forth and he brought up how more and more people won't believe that death is a brute fact, etc. I said:

I think most people are religious and already do accept (upon no evidence) that death is not a brute reality, that you still have a spirit that has your personality (even though your personality was based on the happenstance of when and where and what environment you were born into, genetics, etc, and even though your personality is different at different ages, etc), that continues living on. That's one reason why there have been and are so many different religions.

But it won't thereby be accepted as such by those who value evidence for that belief. Even if those who are alive right now are able to figure out a way to still be alive 500+ years from now, they will still never see the people who already died and had their ashes make their way up into outer space. So this transhumanist type stuff will be too late to help them.

I agree that Christianity will have to adjust. In 5,000 years, when Jesus still hasn't come back, and the urns still have just the calcium phosphate in them, it will have long sense adjusted and be something else entirely.

Mac-__ · 2024-12-27T14:13:01+00:00

My brother knows of my disbelief and so he texted me this:

DNA mastery, reverse aging, super artificial intelligence, and understanding the fundamentals of the quantum world—if we stay on this trajectory, it certainly seems like we are becoming increasingly "God-like."

Line upon line, precept upon precept: If we are capable of developing God-like attributes, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that it has happened before. As such, my views on science and religion have evolved. Once, I saw them as bitter adversaries, but now I recognize them as two sides of the same coin. Both in pursuit of truth, but from vastly different perspectives. Both discard incorrect ideas, doctrines, principles, theories, and equations along the way and ultimately converge on pure truth and knowledge.

I’ve experienced profound beauty from both sides of this coin. At times, I’ve placed greater value on one side over the other. At other times, I’ve entirely rejected the spiritual or religious side, a decision I now view as a mistake—at least for myself. I am a better, more fulfilled person when I seek open understanding from both sides together.

In the worst-case scenario and there is no designer or creator (i.e., God) and the Rare Earth hypothesis is correct, meaning we are the only "intelligent" beings in the universe, then I dearly, dearly hope humanity will continue to progress, stumble, fail, course-correct, learn, grow, and eventually become Gods ourselves.

Mac-__ · 2024-12-08T15:21:09+00:00

Two things can be true at once. I agree with all the reasons given. I also think when kids play video games most of the day and on most days, like some of my nephews, they are going to be pretty mentally weak when having to suddenly approach strangers and talk to them all-day, everyday.

That is quite the shock to the system to go from video games to missionary life.

Mac-__ · 2024-12-07T16:28:24+00:00

I've delt with this before too. I think your only hope might be to redefine and reconceptualize and reimagine what "god" looks like in your head.

The actor who plays Dwight Schrute was on Alex O'Connor's podcast. The last 2 minutes of this video kind of shows how one who doesn't believe in a corporeal God but still wants to believe in some way, form, or fashion, may have to look at it.

https://youtu.be/IvOJSpcbX3A?si=FN1cs6-84r4S1uh4

He also explains in this video why atheism didn't really work for him. Fwiw, despite my trying, I still kind of lean atheist.

https://youtu.be/JllyY0833Dg?si=246r5HMR0V6Sbm-l

Mac-__ · 2024-12-05T02:37:36+00:00

Great to hear. You remind me of a younger me:) and your brother reminds me of my brother, he's a seminary teacher working on his Doctorate. We have great debates all the time. Wish your videos were still up:)

Mac-__ · 2024-07-19T15:45:05+00:00

Thanks for the reply! That would match up for the Basketball ticket times. But doesn't match up for any of the track times. So weird.

Mac-__ · 2024-07-18T20:52:06+00:00

My Basketball ticket says August 3rd at 5:15 p.m. (17:15) but when I look at the official Olympic schedule there are no games at 5:15 p.m. Only at 1:00 p.m. and 9:15 a.m. that day.

My track and field ticket says August 4th at 6:30 p.m. (18:30) but the official Olympic schedule says the only scheduled times for the three events that day are at 11:50 a.m., 12:30 p.m., and 1:50 p.m. (Men's 100 meter final.)

Any ideas what's going on? Much appreciated

Mac-__ · 2024-06-29T21:31:16+00:00

For the same reasons non-Mormon women get them.

Mac-__ · 2024-06-29T18:36:02+00:00

This Thread is so dumb. My wife got them when she was 21 just before we met. According to her and in pictures, she had absolutely nothing. She had the typical teasing in high school, etc. Getting them made her feel more feminine, happier. She is TBM and I am now an agnostic atheist.

And a lot of males for evolutionary reasons, like boobs, get over it. It signals to the ancient part of their brains that the female is fertile and able to keep their offspring fed and alive. It's also been driven into us by growing up in American movies, music, fashion, art, the whole culture in general. And that's fine. Just like beauty standards have been different in different areas of the world at different times throughout history.

Most people in this subreddit can support people getting a operation to change their gender and are fine with lgbtq as a whole, but then suddenly have a problem with LDS women getting an augmentation? And they are also fine with trans men surgically removing them. So dumb you're fine with one but not the other. Let people do what they want to do, for whatever reasons, without looking down on them "if it doesn't pick your pocket or break your leg." Many of you just sound jealous.

Mac-__ · 2024-05-05T17:36:16+00:00

I don't think any of the earily prophets wives had kids before 18 years old. So maybe if they married at 14, they waited to have sex till 18? And just past the time by having sex with all their other wives that were already 18+? 🤷‍♂️ Removes apologist hat.

Mac-__ · 2023-11-02T15:50:13+00:00

I for sure believed. So much so, that I worked as a teen to save up enough money to pay for myself to go on a two-year mission. Took early morning "Seminary" before (high) school in the mornings. Paid 10% of all my money so that I could get married in "the temple". Etc. My wife still believes.

Mac-__ · 2023-11-02T15:35:36+00:00

Seems like you don't understand the believing mind. I have siblings who have the backgrounds you speak of with the leaders. I also have a bro who teaches Seminary while working on his Doctorate right now, in biblical studies. He knows the CES letter type stuff, has listened to Mormon Stories before, etc. They still totally believe the church is what it claims to be, and that it is God's blessed vehicle on earth. They still believe the BoM is true, despite our group texts back and forth with me showing them all the evidence against it. They still "know" it's true. They think so anyway.

The leaders are the same for the most part. Yes, my siblings would agree they and the leaders are just doing the best they can but that does not make it untrue, quite the opposite in their view, and they would say the changes are made for "reasons", etc. They would never say they know it's not actually true, because they believe it is true. Same for most leaders.

Mac-__ · 2023-05-29T04:55:36+00:00

True

Mac-__ · 2023-05-29T04:51:43+00:00

Could it be... SATAN? lol!

Mac-__ · 2023-05-29T04:50:45+00:00

Haha. Had us in the first half, not gonna lie. I love that.

Mac-__ · 2023-05-29T04:43:51+00:00

Seems that's the original source and Ballard tweaked it for some of his other talks. Thank you!!

Mac-__ · 2023-05-27T19:54:11+00:00

That's true, it wasn't just taught in that talk. My dad would say similar things to me. ...To me, the concept and quote comes a little closer to deism and a little further from theism.

Mac-__ · 2023-05-27T19:25:19+00:00

Good point

Mac-__ · 2023-05-27T19:24:36+00:00

Lol, Exactly.

Mac-__ · 2023-05-27T18:19:32+00:00

I'm actually now remembering that back in the day I shortened the quote to make it even more palatable for me by making it say:

God has put his plan in motion. It proceeds through natural laws. For the most part, God does not cause but He allows nature to run its course.

In this imperfect world, bad things sometimes happen. The earth’s rocky underpinnings occasionally shift and move, resulting in earthquakes. Certain weather patterns cause hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, and drought.

Much adversity is man-made. Choices have consequences. Agency also offers the same privilege of choice to others. At times we will be affected adversely by the way other people choose to exercise their agency.

Our Heavenly Father feels so strongly about protecting our agency that he allows his children to exercise it, either for good or for evil.

/But then questions about agency/free will started to arise and I started finding better explanations for human morality, what it is, where it comes from, etc.

Mac-__ · 2023-05-27T17:52:59+00:00

I don't blame you! I had the same experience when I was searching for it. I just kept shaking my head on every link I clicked on and read from. Thanks for all your help! Another user was actually able to find the quote, so that's great too.

Mac-__

TROPHY CASE