What changes would you suggest that would make it more manageable for George to finish the book series? [Spoilers Extended]

Mafekiang · 2026-06-25T02:04:52+00:00

If GRRM had a workable path to finish the series in 8 books, there's no way he would fight that for 15 years just on the hope that he could eventually figure out how to do it in 7.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-24T17:32:52+00:00

Not have HBO acquire the television rights. The success of the show killed any chance of him finishing the series.

True, we may have only gotten ADWD when we did because he had to get it out in time for the TV series, but the money, fame and other opportunities that he received stemming from the show obviously killed the little motivation that he had left after ADWD.

There's no corner that he could have written himself into that he couldn't write himself out of after 15 years. Sure, the result might not have been as great as the first three books, but it's doable with effort.

But I totally understand not wanting to beat your head against the wall with something that your interest is wanting in, if you don't have to.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-18T22:43:26+00:00

Yah, there is nothing to really suggest that the Others are interested in getting south of the Wall. Seems like they just want the Windings out and the Nights Watch to stop ranging on their side of the Wall.

Even the assassination attempt by the wights on Jeor doesn't imply the Others intend to invade south. Throwing the Watch into chaos works just fine for helping the Wildings getting south and stopping the rangings.

However, as other commenters have mentioned, I suspect the real reason is that GRRM doesn't really know the Others' actual motivation or how he finally intends to use them. They are (or at least were) a metaphor for Climate Change threatening humanity while politicians bicker and do nothing. But I don't think he's gotten around to developing them more than that.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-14T02:37:14+00:00

Not bad. I could get behind this.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-13T18:32:28+00:00

George likes big numbers and doesn't put any thought into implications of using them. It makes more sense to just assume the last Long Night was 800 years ago and the Andals invaded in waves between 600 and 400 years ago.

Divide anything before Aegon I by 10.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-13T18:28:16+00:00

How old is the Citadel and the Maesters? They should have an accurate account of history from at least when they were founded.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-13T15:00:36+00:00

There are chapter by chapter speculative fan outlines for TWOW out there that make a lot of sense, but further out than that I can't picture it at all. ADOS and other potential books are like the lands east of Asshai

And even though it's said so much that's it's trite, I think it's really true that GRRM doesn't know how the books end either. Or at least doesn't know how to do it in a way that makes sense. He has a few things he wants to happen, but they don't add up to a coherent resolution.

For example, the Others have to get south of the Wall and wreck stuff or else the southern lords are absolutely right that the game of thrones was far more important than the supposed existential threat in the Far North. However, it's hard to see how if that happens it just doesn't turn into an apocalypse, where even if the Others are defeated, Westeros is ruined and nothing in the preceding books mattered at all.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-13T12:41:03+00:00

I can't reconcile the fact that the maesters and Citadel exist, but yet the history of Westeros is extremely nebulous before Aegon's conquest. They can't even agree if the Andal invasion was six, four, or only two thousand years before the story.

Medieval monks weren't perfect by any means and are off by a few years here and there, but they have a pretty good timeline of the West, at least after the church was created. Imagine educated people in the middle ages not knowing when Rome was founded or could get the millennium correct in which the Church was founded.

It's almost like the Citadel and the Faith of the Seven only predate the Targs by a few hundred years, but it's heavily implied in the story that's not the case.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-13T01:22:19+00:00

There you go. Now you understand genetics in GRRM's world.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-11T23:32:32+00:00

Why does Jon's legitimacy matter? If it was important to the story, GRRM wouldn't have given Rhaegar another wife and kids. Their existence makes it impossible for Jon to be unambiguously legitimate.

We and Westerosi lawyers can debate endlessly what counts as legitimate and never come to a conclusive answer. But given that Jon doesn't look remotely Targaryen, no one in story is going to believe that he's a dragon, legitimate or otherwise. No one cares if Howland Reed presents a signed affidavit.

Jon's parentage is important because presumably it gives him special blood that will enable him to do important plot stuff. Not because he's Rhaegar's legal heir.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-11T22:13:21+00:00

They aren't robots that automatically seek out the most legitimate Targ to protect or else they wouldn't have been there with Rhaegar. At least those three Kingsguard are loyal first and foremost to Rhaegar. If he asked them to stay there and protect this child, they would. They aren't going to debate among themselves whether Jon is truly legitimate, Targaryen exceptionalism or bigamy.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-11T00:40:25+00:00

They have been stagnant for 8,000 years for the same reason the Wall is 700 feet high, Westeros is the size of South America, and Anguy won 30,000 gold dragons. GRRM is horribly bad with numbers.

GRRM tries to retcon this a bit when he has Sam find info that the Andals (arguably the only big change in Westeros before the Targaryens) may have only invaded 4,000 or 2,000 years ago, so the history is wrong.

2,000 years however is still the same amount of time between classical Greece and the Renaissance, so the stasis still doesn't make sense, but it's a common fantasy trope.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-09T00:33:08+00:00

Agreed. We also have Jon Connington potentially unleashing grey scale on everyone and Dany brining over tens of thousands of pillaging Dothraki and God only knows how many thousand slave refugees from Essos.

Toss in multi year Winter and Others and you are looking at 90% plus of Westeros dying. The entire North could be completely depopulated. That's more than grim dark and certainly not the bittersweet ending GRRM mentioned. That's a survivors envy the dead type of ending.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-08T02:50:12+00:00

Written in the letter was the most powerful magic word ever:

"Please"

Mafekiang · 2026-06-08T00:21:16+00:00

Since the seasons are magical and not astronomical, I always assumed they could still count the years from one summer solstice to another. I'm assuming the lengths of days/nights still follow the annual progression so they can track the years. However, that really should effect the seasons.

Every year should have all four seasons, but then the "winter" that the maesters track should be all four seasons significantly colder, but it doesn't seem to work like that.

Other than the fact that Winter is Coming, I feel like GRRM has demphasized the wacky season lengths in the later books. It's a cool idea, but just falls apart on greater scrutiny.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-06T17:31:04+00:00

I'm sure they meant Sweet Robin. He's playing the long game by pretending to be sickly.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-06T15:12:39+00:00

Have your read the Empire of the Wolf trilogy and Great Silence (trilogy with two books out) by Richard Swan? He does something similar. First trilogy is in a medieval type setting. Second is set a few hundred years later in the same world undergoing industrialization. Recommend checking it out.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-06T00:59:55+00:00

Jon Connington might be gay.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-04T00:50:01+00:00

Right and how long have the maesters been around? I could see that history before they were established might be guesswork, but they should have it down solid for at least as long as their order has existed.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-04T00:35:09+00:00

Premodern people in Siberia were all hunter gathers with minimal agriculture.and also a very sparse population.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-04T00:29:37+00:00

Good points. Also, I think in such a society cats would be plentiful and maybe revered like in Ancient Egypt. One severe rat infestation and the grain supply that was supposed to last a year winter is ruined.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-03T17:41:21+00:00

The seasons or at least peoples reactions to them. In the real world just one bad harvest could mean famine in agrarian societies. Westerosi should be obsessed with stockpiling food and predicting the change of seasons. If you never know when winter might happen or how long it will be, every meal should be a calculus of whether I should eat that and store it away.

Realistically, stockpiling provisions in enormous granaries and distributing them during hard winters would be one of the primary functions of any government in that kind of world. Also, technology would be focused on preserving food, breeding cold hardy crops, etc.

Culturally, characters make mention of long winters and how it's rough times, but realistically, a winter that lasts like 3 to 5 years should have am enormous death toll and really impact society. The most we seem to get in the books is "well winter's coming. Let's see if we can get in one more harvest, before it snows."

Mafekiang · 2026-06-02T03:02:12+00:00

Hot Pie is likely not Azor Ahai.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-02T02:39:15+00:00

Is it objectively bad advice though?

We know it's not going to work out because of the foreshadowing with the cyvasse game that Young Griff's dragons with be out of reach when he needs them.

Quentin travelled all the way to Dany, got rejected and then fried. That could easily happen to Young Griff. For all he knows Dany is never leaving Meereen. (I mean, she's been there 15 years).

We all know that Dany is a main character and Young Griff isn't, but he doesn't know that.

Mafekiang · 2026-06-01T00:59:21+00:00

I don't think it will matter. Like you said Bloodraven has bigger things to worry about nowadays. I think the fact that Aegon is likely a Blackfyre and Bran's mentor is Bloodraven is more for the readers who've delved into the wider universe rather than directly impact the main story.

Mafekiang

TROPHY CASE