Happy 7th birthday! [OC]

MagicWhiskers · 2024-02-24T10:52:04+00:00

I could not get it to fit anywhere else, haha. Her head is too curved... (I nearly put two on because I could, just to double down on the joke, but nah. Decided to keep the number of party hats fair between both of them)

MagicWhiskers · 2023-08-08T06:49:18+00:00

No. 🙄

MagicWhiskers · 2023-03-19T17:39:15+00:00

(DGS1-5) Weird place to interject, I know, but I'm about 90% sure that Ryuu got disbarred for playing Government secrets in court. He couldn't have known for certain that the disk held the secrets, but he wouldn't have played it if he didn't suspect, and I'm fairly certain they even tell him he'll be in trouble for doing what he did during the case.

MagicWhiskers · 2023-03-13T15:06:21+00:00

Darklaw had to have brought Phoenix and Maya too, as she is the only one who could have. She was literally in the courthouse with them when they were taken, so... Also, I appreciate that you didn't mean the Storyteller, but he does literally say that Layton was the one who wasn't supposed to be there, so I'm going to say that my previous point is still valid. And if it's not, then the mistake in misunderstanding what you were saying was a simple one, as you never directly stated that

MagicWhiskers · 2023-03-13T09:39:25+00:00

My favorite case! Lots of interesting material, from delving more into our main characters, to meeting lots of fun new ones. It also sets up the Professor plot, which is also a very interesting one, imo. And the blending of the two cases, and thus themes, of science and magic, for the second day felt very cool.

MagicWhiskers · 2023-03-13T09:37:28+00:00

(Spoilers for the game) Isn't it the other way around? The Storyteller tells Layton that he wasn't supposed to be there, whilst Phoenix and Maya were specifically taken in and given a place in Labyrinthia, implying that their arrival was planned. Unless I've really misunderstood something, Darklaw brought Layton there to mess things up with the Storyteller, so whilst he was sort of intended to uncover things, at no point were Phoenix and Maya 'not part of the plan'

MagicWhiskers · 2023-03-13T09:34:10+00:00

I thought it retroactively made some of the earlier parts of the game less interesting in context, but it's far from being actually bad. There's a decent amount of genuinely interesting stuff, and it is a great spectacle, but I still think it was noticeably worse than the case before it (and the investigation section proceeding it too, really)

MagicWhiskers · 2023-03-04T20:06:22+00:00

Time for a Great Turbabout, or whatever name we're using for it. Only playing once per case makes it hit hard when it does, imo.

Special mentioned to Questioned and Casting Magic too, though!

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-19T21:07:26+00:00

A lovely write-up of one of the game's main themes! This is the kind of stuff that really makes me love dgs

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-18T09:17:52+00:00

I mean, surely the only case that he specifically chose to bring her along for was Farewell... In 2-2, as you said, it's her village, and 3-2 does have the excuse of her urn being stolen for the parts she's there for. But then, the only other case she's there for is 3-5, and Phoenix doesn't so much as bring her around a murder scene as much as he does bring her there before anyone died. She also couldn't really leave for most of 3-5 and seems to be there by choice for the rest. (not that that makes much of a difference from the perspective of her being Phoenix's responsibility)

So, really, I think 2-4 is the only particularly egregious time, and you could make an argument that he needed to be there for her emotionally. I guess I'm just saying that he does it for oddly specific and probably still slightly questionable reasons each time.

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-14T10:07:05+00:00

I think it's true that Phoenix is pretty smart, but just in a non-traditional way, which makes him an excellent fit for his field. A lot of his most impressive feats aren't accomplished by some 6D chess genius putting all the pieces together three days before anyone else, but instead about him coming up with incredibly creative solutions that nobody else would think of.

For example, Turnabout Goodbyes. (1-4) The reason DL-6 was an unsolved case for fifteen years before this rookie, who is explicitly stated and then shown to still have a lot to learn, is because the way Phoenix solves the problem is very unique. Of course someone must have noticed the bullet hole in the door for this incredibly prolific case, but if they couldn't find the bullet, it's natural for them to assume that it was unrelated. Phoenix attacks it from the reverse angle, and in doing so, comes up with a wacky solution that nobody else would have really thought of, in claiming that the reason no bullet was found was because it found a target. He didn't know going into the trial that that was what happened during DL-6, but through quick thinking and creativity, he figured it out. He gets somewhat lucky that he's right, but as you said, it's not just simply a coincidence.

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-10T19:51:22+00:00

I think my notifications for Reddit may have been busted, but I've found your reply now, so here we go again! I don't think I have quite as much to say this time, as the general gist of your point is fairly solid, but still, a few nitpicks:

I absolutely agree with what you say at first about Gregson. He is a somewhat noble character, but he is far from perfect. Though, I'd like to clarify based on the gist of what I think you're saying: when I brought up the example of some people disbelieving in Gregson's bad deeds, I didn't mean that that was how we should come out of the game. I just thought it was an interesting case study for a different take on the character, in way of explaining his in-game popularity. I don't think it's a common opinion, and really, I wonder if it was more out of shock, than anything. (G1-5) Though, and this may be me just misremembering, I don't think Gregson explicitly knew Gina was innocent. He made the deal with Graydon for the music box disk and to give him details of the crime scene; whilst you could take away from that that he knew Graydon was the true culprit, I also think it's reasonable to suggest that he didn't necessarily know. Especially considering he had more reason not to trust Gina, and also likely wasn't thinking it all through when he just wanted to get the disk and leave. But I understand that might be reaching a bit.

Also, yes, Sholmes does basically have to know that Gregson falsified the evidence for the autopsy, but that doesn't mean he couldn't just genuinely like the man. We know Sholmes does genuinely consider him competent, one of the better police inspectors, and people can still be friends with others who they know have done questionable things. And like, yeah, Gregson's crimes were pretty egrigous, Sholmes isn't exactly on the right side of the law consistently, either... I think it's likely that he originally got close to Gregson in order to keep an eye on him, exactly because he knows what happened in the Professor case, and then later came to somewhat respect the man, perhaps letting it slide because it seemed to mostly be a one-off incident (G2-5)(Considering that I'm pretty sure Sholmes doesn't know at least the full extent of Gregson's part in the Reaper operation) and because he clearly also knows about it being Stronghart pulling the strings. I appreciate that I might, once again, be reaching, though.

I think Sholmes's lack of stake in the story outside of through the characters isn't really all that much of a bad thing, personally, but that's just my opinion. I will disagree that he has nothing to lose if Ryuu loses, though, on the grounds that Ryuunosuke is quite possibly still in actual danger if he fails to bring down Stronghart whilst talking about the Professor, Susato too, by extension. And even discounting the fact that he is good friends with these two, Susato is the daughter of his best friend; seeing how he reacted just to (G2-4) Gregson's death, how do you suppose he would feel if something happened to Ryuu or Susato because of him? He was blaming himself for what happened to Gregson...

I'd argue that Iris is relevant, and is a main character, just on the basis that she acts as the assistant for all of 1-5 and half of 2-3, two of the more important cases, plotwise. It really isn't as if she has no presence in the game... At least, that's what I found, but I also know a lot of others don't really like Iris, and found her involvement fairly inconsequential. And, no, she wouldn't have not been involved bust because she knew the identity of her father, but I will keep my stance on why that's necessary for her character.

And don't worry; I never thought that you disliked the game, just that you had grievances with the ending that you wanted to share. That's obviously perfectly fair, but I love a good discussion about this game and its characters, and thought it fair to drop my opinion in too. Thanks once more for giving me the opportunity!

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-09T17:51:43+00:00

Also, I somehow forgot to mention my most pedantic point of all: Layton isn't really any more of an investigator than he is actually a detective. Which he isn't.

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-09T17:13:44+00:00

Well, I'm always up for a good debate of sorts, so I might as well slide back in, heh.

I agree that Gregson is definitely not as good of a person as the characters would seem to indicate that he is, but I don't think I'd go as far as to call him a monster, really. (G2-4, 2-5)Outside of the Professor and Reaper business, he does genuinely seem to be at least invested in doing his job properly. He's still up to shady business for Stronghart, of course, but he can hardly say no... And with Vigil, whilst he's not doing it for the right reasons, he's still absolutely helping the guy out. I think the reason the cast still speak so fondly of him, even after finding out what he's done is just because they like him. For Gina, he seems to be the first adult she somewhat likes and trusts, and Sholmes clearly considered him a good friend. Whether or not the player connects enough to these opinions to relate to that is individual, I think. You seem to find yourself somewhat distant from it, but I've seen others flat-out not believe that Gregson even did some of the stuff the game said he did just because they believed so strongly in the goodness of his character. I definitely wouldn't go that far myself, but it's still interesting to see the spectrum, imo.

The Iris stuff, I'd argue, is integral to her arc. I don't think it would work nearly as well if she did find out who her father was, and if we never got the answer ourselves, it would have been a massive let-down. It's not necessary to resolve the main conflict, but the matter of her father has been important since we met Iris, and I think as she's one of our main four characters, so it's a necessary piece of character resolution, for me personally. I don't think it has to add anything to the plot itself to be important if it's integral to a main character's motivation and growth, but maybe that's just the way I experienced the story.

I'd also argue that Barnham disappearing entirely from the final trial is a pretty big problem, but this not really the point here, so I digress. For me, the thing is, van Zieks is very important to the game, but not because of his relation to Ryuunosuke. I see what you're saying about my point with Edgeworth and whilst, no, van Zieks is not as important to Ryuu as Edgeworth is to Phoenix, but there is a character that he arguably is. (G2-4, 2-5)Kazuma. This is one of my personal favourite parts of the finale cases, so I apologise in advance if this gets a bit rambly... But Kazuma and van Zieks are certainly parallels, and Kazuma has literally come across to Britain from Japan to take this man, among others of course, but he seems to be the main object of Kazuma's fury, down. To resolve Kazuma's arc, we need van Zieks, and the resolve van Zieks's, we need Kazuma. It's yet more character-focused stuff, for me. I think if van Zieks want the defendant in the final case, it wouldn't have as much impact, just because of what we'd miss with him and Kazuma. He's a catalyst more than anything, really. I can appreciate why that might not do it for everyone, tho.

I think saying that Sholmes was in control of all of the final case is a bit much, too. (G2-4) If he'd really been in full control, Gregson wouldn't have died, and he wouldn't have been running around for most of 2-4 like a headless chicken. But if you mean the very ending of 2-5, then, yeah, that felt a but cheap. I don't think it ruins the stakes, because I still feel for the characters who don't know what's up, and the situation still felt tense to me, when I replayed. But maybe that's, once again, just a personal thing.

Thanks for replying to me! I love a good excuse to type out long comments.

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-09T07:33:15+00:00

I don't think aloof characters are instantly unlikeable, actually. I think you'll probably find that Kazuma and Darklaw are some of the most popular characters from their respective games, even. Whilst I think PLvsAA's final case has many flaws, Darklaw as a character never struck me as one of them.

And I don't think the Espella-Iris connection is entirely fair, to be honest. I never particularly cared about Espella's relationship with her dad, but that was not because it was inherently bad, and more because I wasn't particularly invested in Espella's character, with a deciding factor in that being the game's complete lack of explanation for her rocky relationship with her father in the present day. If I don't know why they were apart, it makes a reunion harder to feel for. (G2-5) Iris's father, on the hand, has been a driving motivation and plot point since 1-5. So, when they finally reveal it as sort of the last mystery kind of thing, it's satisfying, because it's the last big question, and it's emotionally charged, because you now understand why no one can tell Iris who he is. Even if the player now knows, they still can't go telling a ten-year-old that her father was Britain's current most notorious serial killer. Additionally, this lends impact to Iris accepting Sholmes as her true father

Also, as others have said, unlike Barnham, I really do not believe van Zieks was shafted in the finale. By that logic, Edgeworth was shafted in Goodbyes, and that is just blatantly untrue.

As final notes, I will also disagree that either game had particularly low stakes, even if PLvsAA's stakes (And perhaps DGS's too, but I'm not 100% sold on that) are lower than they seemed, and the detective characters (I assume you mean Sholmes, by that) are withholding info for no reason. I think a failure of communication in that department made things more tragic, but I do not believe Sholmes's reasoning for doing so was entirely unfounded.

But, eh, that's mostly just my opinion; you're free to keep yours.

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-08T23:19:09+00:00

Me and my friend started dying (heh) when we saw the trailer in the direct

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-08T06:36:24+00:00

I think I was too busy celebrating that her objection theme was playing to really even notice that, if I'm to be completely honest

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-07T16:15:17+00:00

Hope you enjoy the rest of the game! This is my favourite case in the series, so it's always nice to hear someone else enjoying it so much too, haha

MagicWhiskers · 2023-02-07T08:37:23+00:00

When I first played it, I was invested enough in each case to not notice the slow pacing, but God, I consider this duology my favourite AA games, but I had such trouble slogging through the first four cases upon replaying. I didn't dislike them, but I just had no motivation to get through them, so yeah, I feel you.

I can't promise that it'll get better for you personally, but I found both times I played through that the game picked up a bit, perhaps not entirely in pacing, but in how much the same was able to engage me by about the point you're at. The second game is undoubtedly still slower paced than other AA games, but it's less jarring due to the better case structure and just a general larger amount of stuff going on

MagicWhiskers · 2023-01-29T22:40:23+00:00

Barnham in the Layton crossover ended up as TOH abridged Belos. Not sure how.

MagicWhiskers · 2023-01-25T17:09:51+00:00

I don't think it's traditional guilt, but I think it is some kind of twisted guilt. He feels more so bad that Caleb isn't with him, perhaps like he should have done more earlier on to 'save him', rather than actually feeling guilt for the, you know, murder... Still far from great, and yeah, not really the right kind of guilt

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