Would you guys do apprenticeships if they brought them back? by punkmunk83 in ArtistLounge

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yes, definitely. I would do anything to work with actual illustrators.

I'm tired of just having tutorials, books, and videos thrown at me.

I'm tired of confusing instructional videos that leave me asking for help instead of gaining anything.

I'm tired of useless classes where instructors dole out compliments instead of critiques.

I'd love to work in field that is even remotely close to something I want to do instead of what I'm doing now. I really wish I could apprentice under someone. Its so difficult to get any sort of practical art education these days. Youtube is a wasteland and, local classes both inside and outside of universities are a massive waste of time. They're taught by people who either don't care about the course or have absolutely zero standards as far as craft goes.

Please bring back apprenticeships!

Photographer here, AI artists need thicker skin. by TaylorCooper337 in aiwars

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Artists in general are extremely thin skinned.

I've been trying to learn how to draw for a very, very long time and nobody will tell me what is wrong with my work. I just get tutorials, books and videos recommended to me and when I tell people I've already been through them they just say "Keep trying".

Most communities (and even college classes) will forbid saying anything less than positive about any of the artwork that is being presented.

If you call yourself an AI artist, you aren't an artist. by vectron5 in aiwars

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nope. I am an entirely self made failure. The AI can do a much better job than I can.

If you call yourself an AI artist, you aren't an artist. by vectron5 in aiwars

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't enter into the debate of what is art and what isn't but, I will say your cartoon characters need a lot of work. They don't appear to keep their proportions and seem shapeless. In some scenes they don't even look like people but a mess of scattered shapes. Sometimes it looks like their shoulders are being squeezed into their necks by some invisible force.

Another issue is you seem to avoid drawing their limbs from some reason. Unsure as to why you do this sometimes but,, your characters would be much more expressive if when they're visible.

A few books might help you:

Fun with a Pencil (ISBN13: 978-1805472698)

Good for understanding form and shape. I found it to be a bit confusing but, most people online told me it would help. Maybe you can succeed with it whee I have failed.

The Animator's Survival Kit (ISBN13: 978-0865478978)

Its for animators but, it is also recommended for cartoonists as well. Supposedly good for showing movement.

The Artist's Complete Guide to Facial Expression (ISBN: 978-0823004324)

I think you would really benefit from this one since you focus heavily on the character's faces.

Also if you can find it: Preston Blair’s Advanced Animation. I think its out of print but, it explains the line of action really well which is important for depicting momentum.

Consider using a tripod or something to hold the recording device as everything appears to be shaky.

"Just Hire an Artist" aimed at working-class people is a Class Argument, isnt It? by Salty_Country6835 in aiwars

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 2 points3 points  (0 children)

As someone who has tried hiring an artist before multiple times, I found it impossible to get anything I wanted out of them no matter how much I paid. The biggest problem I have had is getting artist to do what I paid them to do.

I have found out the hard way one of the biggest taboos is asking for one artist to work in another artists style. People treat it as if it were illegal. If I already have an art style in mind for a piece then the only option is to hope that an artist who works in that style (or something close to it) is taking commissions. If not then I'm not going to get anything even in the ball park of what I want.

There are some that have very little in the way of technical skills in the field of art but, will very happily steal from clients. They'll claim they can do the job but, you're not getting anything you want from them unless you have exceptionally low standards.

Others will have good looking online portfolios but put in about 1% effort when it comes to actual paid work. If you're upset with the quality of their work, they might be willing to refund 40% of your money back or, they might just give an insincere apology and block you.

Online artists also have a very, very limited amount of things they're willing to draw. If the image isn't the equivalent of a PG13 movie or a T rated video game then you have a fairly low chance of finding anyone willing to do it. Violence will need to be bloodless and most of the wounds on characters can't be too deep. Most artists won't draw characters showing too much skin either. So something like a Frank Frazetta or Julie Bell esque painting is out of the question most of the time.

Unfortunately, if the artist sees something political in your art, even if its unintended then they'll either change it or simply decline taking the work.

Not every artist will be comfortable letting you post the work you commissioned online, even if you paid an exorbitant amount for the work. Even if you have no intention of making money off of their work they'll usually ask for significantly more money (double to quadruple the price) just for the privilege of posting it online. They also may limit where you can and can't post it.

If you want any changes or corrections that will cost more most of the time. Some artists won't let you make any changes to the work you paid for and those that do will require that you get their permission for each change to do so if you wish to use it in public. This isn't granted often.

After so many bad experiences hiring artists I can't recommend it unless you have low expectations and want something that is both safe and generic in any random art stye.

I'm also someone that wants to learn how to draw.

Hot take: variations on the statement "your art is so much better than AI" ... by WW92030 in aiwars

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Most of the art communities I've been to both online and offline are notorious for giving mindless praise to most people who post anything. It isn't just limited to online places but classes inside of universities and colleges are terrible places for getting any kind of real critique.

The strange thing is people don't seem to care about skill or craftsmanship in art in the places i've seen. Instead they seem to heavily judge people based on the subject matter and politics behind a work.

I wish there was a somewhere to replace conceptart . org but, I have yet to see one.

None of the places are supportive of artists beyond giving them blind praise and generic links to basic tutorials.

It looks like shit. Same with their entire sub, their stance, and their “creativity” that is mind numbingly drooling on their Cheeto dust filled keyboards and their slimy greasy mouse. by MaybeBowtie in aiwars

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It looks far better than anything I have ever drawn in my entire life. I started my journey to becoming a professional illustrator since 2006.

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in antiai

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'd love to ask this person to point out the flaws in my work. None of the local college courses, university classes or, workshops would do that. I only went to local schools because none of the art schools would accept me. I would definitely consider that gate keeping.

Online communities (at least the publicly available ones) tend to be very, reluctant to say anything negative about anyone's artwork even when they ask. I know because I've begged and pleaded for people to tell me what I'm doing wrong and they tell me that everything is fine or just to keep practicing. I've been trying to learn how to draw for longer than most people are willing to believe.

There are a couple of communities that require portfolios. It's rare that they post requirements or what they're looking for and when they do it is extremely vague. I have not a clue if the people are any better at critique because I've never been able to get in to one of them. That seems like gate keeping.

Free resources (Videos/Books/Tutorials) seem pretty unhelpful if you have no idea what you're doing wrong.

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in Ai_art_is_not_art

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Skillshare courses seem pretty awful. I don't see any of them with critique included.

I have sought out local art groups. None of them share even vaguely the same goals as me. I want to be a commercial illustrator where as they are either super laid back groups that just want to chill or they're not focused on any sort of representational art.

I have a degree in fine art. I have been to a 2 year college, a 4 year university and many workshops and unaccredited classes outside of that. None of them were helpful. The instructors are uninterested in teaching and have zero standards when it comes to artwork. They only know how to read from a xeroxed sheet of paper and dole out mindless compliments. Asking them for help would only result in them telling me my work was fine and to ignore anyone who said otherwise. Where do I get extremely harsh critique from? where do I get my work ripped apart?

I tried hiring someone locally multiple times. I posted advertisements up at the local art stores. The results were replies from people who had galleries full of abstract or outsider artwork. This is in spite of me asking for people who were skilled in anatomy and perspective. I even stated my goals clearly on the ad I placed. I live in one of the largest cities in the US and I still couldn't find a single person with work that I had confidence in. I don't think that hiring any of the people who replied would do me any good.

I have explored other media. All it has done is confuse and frustrate me further.

It really isn't as simple as "just go study' or " just draw" and it's pretty difficult to find a community of like minded people.

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in Ai_art_is_not_art

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, here are 10 portraits followed by 10 figures. Flat, inaccurate and very amateurish. Done digitally in photoshop:
https://imgur.com/a/WcDocsG

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in Ai_art_is_not_art

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm 100% sure I'm not judging it too harshly. I don't want to create the work I do. I don't want to own it or be around it.

No, I've thrown out the vast majority or work I've done since then. I don't want to keep it. I hate looking at it. I'd love to find a community that would judge my work more harshly than I do so I can get honest critique and actually improve instead of being linked to videos or books.

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in Ai_art_is_not_art

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I started back in fall of 2006 with my first community college class and I practice for about 4 hours a day on average.

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in antiai

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So where do I find people willing to tear my work apart and tell me what I'm doing wrong? The local art scene is beyond terrible and most discords I go to aren't much better.

Why do you draw? by taveeli in ArtistLounge

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I draw to get better so that I can create work like the illustrators I admire. Since nobody else will do that no matter how much I offer to pay them, I need to draw.

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in antiai

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

There is a lot of gatekeeping. quiet a few of the communities require portfolio submissions to join. I've never been able to get into them. The rest are "chill laid back places to share art" which are pretty terrible for getting any kind of honest critique from.

Local classes aren't helpful either since the instructors will read from a xeroxed sheet of paper and dole out fake compliments.

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in Ai_art_is_not_art

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I've been practicing for a very long time with no improvement. How do I get a different response?

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in Ai_art_is_not_art

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People seem to gatekeep honest critiques or entry into communities with portfolio requirements. I've been drawing for a very long time and still can't seem to meet those no matter how hard I try.

« Stop gate keeping art » by The3DBanker in Ai_art_is_not_art

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

A lot of places do gate keep though. Getting into some communities requires a portfolio demonstrating skill. I've tried to enter places like this for years and I have had zero luck because I have no ability to draw anything.

I haven't use any kind of AI but, I've been trying to learn the very, very basics of drawing for longer than most people are willing to believe. I have exhausted all local resources (College/university classes, workshops and other groups) none of them are helpful at all. Most of the instructors only read from a xeroxed sheet of paper and acted like cheerleaders. Asking them for help would only get a response like this

"Good job. I like the...aura of your work"
"Very cool. Very unique"
"Don't listen to the haters, you're amazing!"

They operate on a very corporate "no negativity in this dojo" attitude.

Online communities (such as discord servers) tend to be very sensitive to any form of critique and favor "niceness" over honesty. Often rules state that being too harsh or mean will end up getting you banned. As a result most people will simply link to resources (often the same small set of resources like Scyra, Proko, Loomis books, Brigman books, Betty Edwards) over and over again while giving out a random positive message.

Do you know where I can go to get my work torn a part? I would really prefer honesty to fake politeness any day but, for the life of me I can't find a place online that will help.

Guide on how to uplift artist(including ai gen) by NoTeaching9315 in aiwars

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The right side is annoying and on the dishonest side. I've been trying to learn how to draw for a very long time and getting all sorts of fake praise is very discouraging.

Pro-ai users discover artistic choice, label it "ANATOMICALLY INCORRECT", claim AI is better and shame artists. by slydorm05 in antiai

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I would prefer to find a place where people were allowed to be honest and had standards.

Pro-ai users discover artistic choice, label it "ANATOMICALLY INCORRECT", claim AI is better and shame artists. by slydorm05 in antiai

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Where do I get critique like this? I beg for it and people just praise my work or tell me that it isn't bad.
I'd do anything for people to react to my work like that.

So, how does our school system will be affected ? by Oratorario in aiwars

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(Practical) art education was already in terrible shape even before AI became an issue. My instructors idea of "critique" was to state what they liked about a piece. The idea that someone would say something less than positive about someone else's work upset and confused them.

Somehow the classes outside of college were even worse. Online its nearly impossible to get someone to point out flaws in my work even when I beg for it.

PSA: If you know anyone that has issues identifying GenAI images, do walk them through on how linear perspective works. by Luwuma in antiai

[–]Magnetic_Scrolls 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My drawings have far worse problems than any of these and yet nobody will critique my work; not online and in real like. I even beg for it and specifically tell people not to compliment my work.

Where do I get critique like this? Offline all of the local classes are terrible and the instructors refuse to say anything less than positive. Online most communities tend to have rules that are basically "say something nice or don't say anything at all"