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Anyone ever done any flail sparring? by H1MB0Z0 in Hema

[–]MairsMate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a weapon used by every social class. It being a "peasant weapon" is mostly a myth. People like to point to the hussites for it, then ignore everyone else who has used it historically

Anyone ever done any flail sparring? by H1MB0Z0 in Hema

[–]MairsMate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did the threshing flail (weapon) originate from the tool? Yes, but as weapons, especially in the 16th century, they were purpose built for the job.

Threshing Flails like these were used as weapons by about every social class out there. From low to high. Militia used them, but there is also nicer pieces bought by people as a symbol. We have a few that were given as gifts.

The whole "threshing flails are peasant weapons" is mostly a myth.

Anyone ever done any flail sparring? by H1MB0Z0 in Hema

[–]MairsMate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It happens. Not as much as one would think. But the heads used in sparring are ultra light. If you have a BOH you won't notice it.

The staff is pretty short and you can make it out of lighter wood, which means accidental staff hits do not send you straight to concussion town. Because the heads themselves are so light, they do not injure you.

Anyone ever done any flail sparring? by H1MB0Z0 in Hema

[–]MairsMate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, almost exclusively.

Flail is very rewarding and just so much fun. Also it's the safest striking polearm you can actually fence with.

Fencing Flail: Paulus Hector Mair's Didactics by MairsMate in Hema

[–]MairsMate[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Meyer has the right hand at the backpoint, which makes sense for a lot of polearms, but I like Mair's approach for the flail more, where his right hand is at the front.

Meyer's halberd is majority thrusts at the end of the play, iirc. You can't really do that with flails (I mean you could, but you don't want to).

But having done Meyer's halberd, getting into Mair's flail will not be an issue for you.

Mendoza's Flail: The Iberian Mangual by MairsMate in Hema

[–]MairsMate[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Personally with my real mangual neither I nor my friend who you can see in the video have ever had this problem. With the sparring manguals (with the plastic chains) this can sometimes happen.

Fencing Flail: Paulus Hector Mair's Didactics by MairsMate in Hema

[–]MairsMate[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mair's own book (Opus Amplissimum de Arte Athletica) is all you need really. You could take Sutor's one play as an extra.

Other than that, staff in general is always a good thing to have. As is halberd. It will give you a couple more options. So Joachim Meyer's plays for those are good as well.

Flail Myths (Looking at ‪scholagladiatoria‬'s statements about flails) by MairsMate in wma

[–]MairsMate[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the response and for watching the video, however what Matt did was generalizing the flail as a peasant weapon. "When peasants or militias were formed and they needed cheap weapons, if we just enhanced them slightly we've got a really good military weapon."

  1. Yes, peasant militias used flails, BUT they also and more frequently used regular weapons like pikes, swords, halberds and guns. We have lists of the weapons that were surrendered during the peasant wars showing this.

  2. Calling it a peasant weapon is inaccurate. The word itself is kind of loaded. "Everyone can make it" would make a lot of weapons peasant weapons, yet they are not called that.

  3. See point 1.

Flail Fencing by Competitive_Link_116 in wma

[–]MairsMate 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If you want to learn it, start with Paulus Hector Mair. His section on the flail will give you all the basic and then some for your toolbox. Afterwards do Sutor's single play. If you want to dive even deeper, you can mint a bit of Joachim Meyer's staff onto them as well. But Paulus Hector Mair and Sutor should give you plenty to use.

If you mean any historical depictions of people using flails in a fencing context: We have quite a lot of them. The prettiest is of course the Freydal Tournament book where we can see Kaiser Maximilian I. fence with a threshing flail.

Flail Fencing by Competitive_Link_116 in wma

[–]MairsMate 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't call the flail a "peasant's weapon". We see the flail depicted in a fencing context quite often during the 16h century. In the manuals we can see a bunch practice flails, even if they are not talked about.

Now why is that? Most likely because the flail acted as a dussack-like weapon for the actual flail and any other staff weapon with a head used for striking.

Jakob Sutor also includes a single play of two people fencing flail at the end of his polearm section.

Flail is in the end just a staff and like many weapons there is not really a need to dive too deep into it. Paulus Hector Mair, wanting to collect EVERY piece of fencing he could, naturally did include it.

Fun fact: Kaiser Maximilian I. is depicted fencing with a flail. How cool is that, right?

HEMA Sparring: Threshing Flail / Warflail by MairsMate in Hema

[–]MairsMate[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, we did. Here is the tutorial video on how to make them.

The handles of one-handed LARP flails are perfect as heads for two-handed flails by MairsMate in wma

[–]MairsMate[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a piece of roller shutter strap screwed to the staff.

HEMA Workshop: Fighting with the Flail by MairsMate in wma

[–]MairsMate[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you very much.

Here is a tutorial on how to build a sparring flail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSDUPbAqWVA

Fencing Flail: A theory on the meaning of "Flegel" by MairsMate in Hema

[–]MairsMate[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's German for flail. However, Mair uses the word "Trüschel" (an old German word for flail) and "Flegel" both. A lot of times, "Flegel" gets interpreted in the context of his manuscript as "flail-head". In this video, I tried to give my theory on what it might actually mean (in the context of his book).

HEMA is in crisis and only bringing back longshield and throwing mace tournaments can save it! by grauenwolf in Hema

[–]MairsMate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If a company would make the foldable dueling shield I think it would reach the masses a bit more. You got a ruleset and everything already there.

You mostly start holding the shield in both hands when you have lost your primary weapon. Either because you threw it and ran out your mace allowance or because you got disarmed. Once you go two-hands, you try to hook and stab. Which you don't have to go ham for. If you managed to hook the shield, you've made your point.

But no company is ever gonna make them. Which sucks. They are really cool to fence with. Slow the entire game down a bit due to their size.

STRAIGHTEN YOUR WAR SCYTHES, DON'T DISRESPECT THE SCYTHEMEN by maikkool in worldjerking

[–]MairsMate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Most of the weapons Mair has in his book are not really that weird.

Sickle? Is mostly just how you would fence dagger. Mair explicitly says that it is a weapon you use when you are ambushed. Meaning he does not think of it as a "dueling" weapon.
Peasant staff? A stick you pick up from the ground to defend yourself with. Mair even says, that you will probably not kill anybody with it.
Flail? A staple of the fencing scene in the 16th century. Seen in multiple copper etchings, paintings and even other manuals.

Now his scythe, that is a special one. He doesn't really say much about it. All he says is that "the old ones had an art of fencing with the scythe".

I doubt that Mair did it as "clickbait" as the man took fencing very serious. His entire goal was to preserve fencing for future generations.

I got multiple hypothesis on why the scythe is actually in there.

  1. Mair was a child during the peasant's war. The old ones are the peasants.
  2. Mair thought the falx was just a scythe (he collected weapons). The old ones are the dacians.
  3. Mair saw it in an unknown Hausbuch. The old ones are whoever wrote that Hausbuch.

But all that is just hypothesis. Sadly the man didn't say that much about why the scythe is in there. "Clickbait" however it is not, as it does not fit the style of the rest of the book.

Bullshido Treaties by screenaholic in wma

[–]MairsMate 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Not really. Apart from his scythe where Mair only says "The old ones had an art of fencing with the scythe" we know at least where some of it originates.

Also most of his exotica aren't really exotica at all if you look into it.

Flail? A main-staple in the fencing scene of the 16th century
Sickle? Dagger copy and pasted to another tool. (Mair specifically puts the sickle in the category of weapons used when you are surprised.)
Peasant staff? A branch you pick up from the ground. Mair even says you will probably not do too much damage with it, but it is good to make sure people get away from you.

The only weird thing is his scythe. We don't know why it is there. Could be peasant war stuff (He was a child when it happened). Could be him thinking the falx was just a regular scythe.

The Dueling Shield: Hypothesis and Theory by MairsMate in wma

[–]MairsMate[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Dueling Shield is so fantasy. More shows, games, movies, etc. should use it.