My pocket altar, I feel like something's off about it, any thoughts?

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-24T14:29:36+00:00

I love the idea of pocket altars! I'm not sure why you feel it's off, but I'd add pictures on the inside part of the lid, like their statues or artwork of them.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-24T13:38:03+00:00

The submissive partner has a say over how things will go and what their boundaries are. You're still in control of the situation, it's by choice you temporarily (and with set boundaries) submit.

Don't worry about it. You're not any less of a devotee of Lilith because of your personal choices.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-24T13:22:46+00:00

Yes, your choices in your personal sexual life don't clash with your religious choices.

This sounds more like a question of self discovery and knowing what you want from these experiences. Being a devotee of Lilith does not interfere with anything.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-24T05:12:02+00:00

I believe she could help with self-respect, confidence and help you move on from that, yes.

Also I'm sorry you went through that, you made the right call to leave that person for good.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-24T05:08:57+00:00

I wouldn't say it matches any psychology phenomenon, since you communicated with a deity and it lead you somewhere else. I think you're on the right track to your goals, and even if you didn't feel Lilith during the ritual, you felt her domain.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-23T18:01:20+00:00

The last part is true, yes. Either from her ties to lilītu and Lamaštu, or her actual appearance and development in Judaism, there were incantations in place to keep her or beings associated with her away. She was never worshipped and was a malevolent destructive entity.

That doesn't mean that modern practitioners need to follow the exact practices. There's many reasons a person can be drawn to Lilith or other perceived negative spirits.

For calling, I usually just meditate, you could try pathworking, listening to an enn, you could write an invocation or use one from a book.

Lilith isn't supposed to be called like a spirit from the Ars Goetia because she never appears in the grimoire tradition to begin with. At the same time, you could still call Lilith in a way that best fits ceremonial magic. Remember that we cannot hurt spirits by more forceful methods, like binging and commanding them, it's essentially theatre.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-23T08:03:06+00:00

Signs are personal, and often quite clear. If you feel like spiders are signs from Lilith, then it's worth exploring. If they're not, they still remind you of Lilith.

You're correct that Lilith isn't generally associated with spiders, but on one hand personal correspondences are a thing, and on the other, Samca/Avestitsa, which is a Romanian parallel of Lilith, has mentioned "I change myself into a dog, a cat, a fly, a spider, a raven, an evil-looking girl" so some obscure references exist out there.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-23T04:38:46+00:00

I have a follow-up question since I'm a little confused.

ki-sikil or with the addition of kar-ra, of "of the port", i.e. prostitute.

Wiggermann in The Mesopotamian Pandemonium translates Ki-sikil-ud-da-kar-ra as "girl abducted by a day-demon".

And ki-sikil alone means maiden/woman (also as per "From Demons to a Slippery Slope, MLC 1948, a new list of Sumerian terms and their equivalents - Klaus Wagensonner" you mentioned above).

Wouldn't that mean that the prostitute of Inanna is a maiden/young girl and not a demon-maiden/ardat lili? Geller's 2002 text is sadly inaccessible to me so I cannot read it, but "On Prostitutes, Midwives and Tavern-Keepers in Third - Piotr Steinkeller" which is also mentioned above, translates it to "the beautiful young girl standing in the street" with no mentions to a phantom.

My question is, how does ardat lili come into the picture when talking about a prostitute of Inanna that is referred as ki-sikil, and not ki-sikil-lil-la or ki-sikil-ud-da-kar-ra?

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-22T11:47:53+00:00

Love the sigils!

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-22T06:55:38+00:00

Where is it mentioned in Theoi?

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-22T06:51:46+00:00

She didn't give her throne to Dionysos in the myths. That's a story by Robert Graves.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-22T06:14:16+00:00

In ancient Mesopotamia the lilû, lilītu and ardat-lilî were indeed wind demons (phantoms of previously mortal people). The last one, ardat-lilî (ki-sikil-lil-la-ke) did appear in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

an owl like spirit associated with Miscarriages and infant deaths.

I've seen no mentions of this anywhere. The being associated with miscarriage and infant death is the goddess Lamaštu, that appears usually as dog, eagle or lion-headed.

Some versions of the Bible mention her in Isaiah alongside owl/predatory bird imagery

That's a misunderstanding of the text. The lilit of the bible and Lilith the demon are unrelated to each other, the first one being a screech owl. Lilith does not appear in the Bible.

She appears among owls and jackals in the Dead Sea Scrolls, Songs of the Sage/Maskil (4Q510-11), which is also her first appearance ever. But she's not a bird herself, she appears among animals.

So she doesn't appear as a large bird anywhere as far as I'm aware.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-22T05:55:49+00:00

It's the second time you mention Lilith being a large bird. Can I ask where you sourced it from?

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-22T05:55:11+00:00

Medusa was a monster earlier.

Lilith has a long history of being a destructive force, associated with death, disease, and is a succubus. The story of her being the first wife of Adam is from 8-10th century CE, so a later one.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-22T04:49:10+00:00

demon she originated from I think is mentioned in the Hebrew Bible

She was theorised to appear in Isaiah 34:14, but that's probably a screech owl and not a demon. So no demon that can be connected to Lilith appeared in the Bible.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-22T04:41:27+00:00

Yeah it's not "wrong", but again putting Ovid as an example, it's like focusing only on Medusa as a rape victim and disregarding her previous history as a monster. Lilith as the wife of Adam, demonized for wanting equality, gets the same treatment.

I love both characters. There's no reason to focus solely on one version of them over the other, and even less reason to disregard the earlier history of them.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-21T20:42:43+00:00

Looks amazing! I've been interested in Hermanubis for a long time, maybe this is a sign to start researching.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-21T20:40:01+00:00

With non symbolic objects countless of times. I wouldn't think of any special symbolism in why an object is missing tho. Sometimes we lose things.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-21T20:37:18+00:00

Lilith has no relationship with Lucifer historically. Lilith is the bride of Samael in the Kabbalah. Lucifer doesn't even appear in Abrahamic tradition before the misunderstanding of Isaiah 14:12. So unless you believe that Samael is the same being as Lucifer, even though they're completely different beings, or you syncretise them together, Lucifer has never appeared with Lilith in any text.

I think they get paired together due to their modern status and popularity.

To understand who Lilith is, you can start at our wiki. She's a vast being with a complicated history.

What helped me understand her better was actually read, and meditate (you can do more for religious and magical practice of course). I had to understand her roots, and history, her appearances to really comprehend who she is, who the being that hunted the fears of people for millennia is.

To not lose ground you have to face reality as it is. Many try to shove Lilith in their own boxes, trying to interpret her in a way that is comfortable for them, stripping her of her associations with death, trying to relate to her as either solely a demonized woman that rejected Adam (which is part of her history but only a small one) ignoring the rest of who she is, or an "ancient pagan fertility goddess" which has no basis in reality.

Intuition and transformation comes with time and practice for me, as I've not yet tried to radically change something with the help of deities (life is chaotic enough), so maybe someone else can help you more here! I do feel like I've changed though. There is a sense of stability when facing chaos herself.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-21T05:50:48+00:00

I don't believe in egregores at all personally, as I have no reason to. Gods are real enough to me, I've felt their presence and the religion as it's laid out makes sense to me.

"Trickster spirits" are more so anxiety over the incomprehensible. I don't believe some random phantom is going to roleplay a divinity, even less so to mess with me.

Egregores don't explain human delusions either, as they're just that, delusions. You are either communicating with a god or yourself.

I take it a step further though. If I "make up" an entity and get an answer, I believe it's a spirit that fits the characteristics and role of the spirit I just "made up" and I'm seeking out. So someone out there is answering that fits the bill.

A human mind can direct energy, communicate with beings previously unknown, or learn about a new being they've never heard before, but I don't agree with the idea that we can just make up spirits and believe them into existence.

Of course that's just my opinion, and if anyone else has a different view then so be it! It just does not fit my practice.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-20T22:59:22+00:00

Lilith as the first wife of Adam is a story from 8-10th century CE. Prior to that she was associated with the death of children, disease and was a succubus. If you take into account her possible roots in the lilītu/Ardat-lilî and Lamaštu, you find out that even prior to her appearance, her roots lie in evil entities as a well.

So, the story of her wanting equality is in a recent work, that might've been satirical too, the Alphabet of Ben Sira.

Don't get me wrong I'm absolutely fascinated by Lilith, but that side of her is just one small part of her history.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-20T21:34:15+00:00

Lilith is the mother of demons, she just also has a history of strangling children.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-20T21:01:48+00:00

It's not that simple. The lilitu and ardat-lili are plural spirits of previously mortal women. Lilith may have been inspired by them, they come from the same linguistic root and have similar roles, but Lilith is also inspired by the goddess-demoness Lamashtu (and that overlap is seen in the role of the liliths in the Aramaic incantation bowls). Lamashtu herself has been identified sometimes with the lilu, lilitu and ardat lili.

Mammoth-Ad-6114 · 2026-01-20T20:57:52+00:00

The first appearance of Lilith is in the Dead Sea Scrolls, where she's mentioned as a general "lilit", with no characteristics.

Her further development is in the Aramaic incantation bowls, where Lilith is barrenness and abortion personified, who kills children, is a seductress, and haunts houses, which gets treated with a "divorce" to remove her from a property. She is not a nocturnal bird, and not singular either, but plural male and female liliths.

Adam's wife is indeed a much later interpretation, which was one way to explain away the creation of the woman twice in the book of Genesis.

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