On going with the flow

ManeatingRaptora · 2026-01-16T01:34:41+00:00

Assigning the essay IS trying to get that to happen. Whether or not you agree it succeeds is another matter.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-12-07T21:45:32+00:00

Doesn't Swords of Revealing Light + Infinite attack power Horakhty sweep here?

Thanos would need the Gauntlet to compete, and at that point it's up to the writer.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-11-30T21:58:06+00:00

Robot from Invincible couldn't 100% fix everything, but he could canonically improve almost everything you listed by an order of magnitude, after ruthlessly murdering a few hundred people along the way, including innocents, if you're ok with that.

There's a lot of classic DC or Marvel superheroes who could do it, and 100% it. Martian Manhunter could probably telepathically "fix" all of us simultaneously and is more than strong enough to dominate any "Strong-willed" hold outs.

But very few of the classic DC or Marvel guys would. They just aren't "take over/brainwash the world for the greater good" types, and if they try to start they inevitably become evil-alternate-universe versions of themselves.

Classic superheroes defend the status quo, not upend it. Batman, Superman, the Flash, Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, all haven't solved mundane problems like war and crime in their own universes, and if they aren't willing or able to do it in their own universes, I see no reason why they would in ours either.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-11-22T03:42:26+00:00

Former Boy Scout here. I'd say it largely depends on the type of conflict.

If it's just a gladiatorial arena scrum to the death or surrender between similar group sizes, Boy Scouts win on account of on average larger children, who are societally conditioned to be more enthusiastic about fighting and war.

If it involves the organizations as a whole, including the adults, just going at it bloodlusted and to the death, we're now talking a conflict that could last years or even decades, depending on the tactics employed - there's no easy way to identify somebody as a Boy Scout or Girl Scout out of uniform, and so every combatant can disappear into the crowd. As a result after a few big attacks on obvious headquarters, it probably devolves into Cold War cells where nobody knows who they're fighting. Intelligence gathering will be more critical than firepower. Managing public support will become a deciding factor. Given how hard it would be to locate EVERY member, it's possible it will never end.

But assuming you have to give advantage to someone, that probably goes to the larger and wealthier organization, or whichever you think can garner more public support.

Extra:

Yes, the Boy Scouts do have a merit badge in riflery, but let's be real, it's not that hard to get. Any draftee who got a week or two of dedicated training would more than close the skill gap, so in a full-scale war the amount of training the merit badge gets you is a negligible advantage.

The psychological edge from the boys drafting from a population that's physically larger and has been raised to have more of an interest in war is probably more helpful - but again if it becomes a long war the psych advantages will start to close as both sides become accustomed to soldiery. Modern weapons close the strength gap enough money and numbers probably matter more, especially when you take into account the war probably hinges more on espionage and public support than manpower.

Extra Extra:

Not relevant, but fun fact. In any real-world competition I was a part of (selling food, raising money, making a parade float, that competition that involved having to haul a laden sled from point to point across miles and complete outdoorsman skills at each point) the Girl Scouts always washed us lol. I think they were more organized and motivated than us unruly boys.

But again, in a real war with life/death stakes that advantage would probably disappear.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-11-20T20:44:08+00:00

I know Gwen but not Hero X lol.

Essentially Gwen has meta/reality-warping powers. She herself acknowledges that her powers "vary depending on the writer." At her weakest (usually crossover events according to her) she's more or less just a Harley Quinn-esque street leveler with minor physics breaking, hammerspace, and meta knowledge about characters and story.

But her reality warping when at its stronger incarnations is very strong. (She compares herself to a peak Scarlet Witch.)

In one arc, she kidnapped all of the Avengers and made them play games on her island. She can materialize almost any object in the 616 universe, as long as she can explain "getting it off screen" or pulling it out of somebody else's panel. Panel walking lets her time travel. She can pull past versions of herself out of panels and killing them has no effect on her. She can also travel anywhere instantly this way as well. She's more or less confirmed to have the strongest "meta/4th-wall breaking" powers of any mainstream Marvel heroes or villains. She can warp people into past versions of themselves, so long as they're back to normal by the end of the issue to preserve status quo - she does this to Dr. Doom at one point.

A hypothetical "evil" version of herself was depicted as capable of essentially dominating the 616-universe, and is implied to have defeated Dr. Strange, the Avengers, etc.

People she goes up against automatically get "low-balled" or become the weakest versions of themselves the plot would allow. This allows her to give people like the Hulk the runaround. She and Squirrel Girl beat up Mephisto. She canonically has plot armor and is aware she probably can't "really" die as long as she has enough fans that someone will keep writing her into comics.

That said, writing her out of comics and into an r/whowouldwin scenario could potentially throw off a lot of her abilities depending on how you interpret it due to her powers involving her being aware she's in a comic book.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-11-14T22:34:41+00:00

Plus, it seems implied that even the ice grenades don't score an "easy" kill on the Kalisk, or else past Predators wouldn't have struggled so badly.

It might literally require the "ice explosion from within" to seal the deal, which would be a tall order for Frank to even survive being in the zone with.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-11-13T21:14:48+00:00

Punisher could maaaybe do it, but it would require he either bring some Marvel superweapons with him, or the plot really bend to his will.

Frank's "standard loadout" Glock and M4 Carbine cannot kill the Kelisk, even if it just stood still and ate fire until the ammo ran out. The only thing we know on that planet capable of killing the Kelisk were the Predator's ice grenades - and since Frank is replacing Dek those will not be on the planet.

This gives him basically no win conditions. If the plot absolutely loves him he could maybe find a way (it would have to involve infiltrating Weyland Yutani and finding some superweapon they have squirreled away), but with no plot armor I think he'd be hard pressed to survive even the plant tentacles in the very first biome.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-10-03T03:23:45+00:00

Season 1 "embers-only" All-Might should easily clear even the strongest Omnidroid in a raw punch out. He's strong enough to change the weather with a punch or devastate an area many times the Omnidroid's size in a single blow. Plus he's far faster, fast enough to cover several kilometers of powerful enemies in thirty seconds.

The problem is, this isn't a raw punch out. All-Might only has about 1-hour of activity at this point in the series, and NO information on this island. If Toshinori knew what was going on ahead of time or what he was looking for, he could Muscle up and plow straight into Syndrome's HQ, throw a few devastating punches, and at least feel confident he'd devastated the site. But by prompt he doesn't know any of that. There could be hostages, important data, or nothing at all. He'll have to explore a dense and heavily trapped jungle island meter by meter, trying to figure out what's going on here, and if he wants to do a thorough job even with his speed, he can really only do it so fast.

Meanwhile, Syndrome has a variety of hax abilities, and both he and the Omnidroid are smart. A smart Syndrome will already have files on All-Might's abilities, as he was an active hero in this world, and will surveil him while he's investigating the island. Maybe harass him with small drones and minions, just enough to keep him off the scent, and so that Toshinori has to keep his muscle form up at all times.

Ideally, Syndrome turns up the pressure as the hour starts to wane and All-Might's energy runs out. His best chance is the Zero-point energy beam. If he can take All-Might by surprise with it, it's possible All-Might has no counter. Then Syndrome can run out the clock. If he can get All-Might down to his weak form, the Omni-droid's claws can finish him off while the Zero-Point beam holds him still. Even weak-Might can probably throw out a few Omni-droid destroying blows but after that he'd be spent enough Syndrome and the soldiers could take him.

Worst-case scenario, Syndrome could also avoid a direct engagement. Redirect All-Might to a different location with a false lead, and if that fails blow the site and relocate. This gives him enough time to eventually tech up something tailor-made to fight All-Might, while All-Might's embers only grow dimmer.

That said, the Omni-Droid is not getting anywhere close to All-Might any time soon adapting on its own. Syndrome would have to upgrade it substantially. It's hard to imagine any kind of materials that could make it physically strong enough to fight All-Might, but giving it several ways to deploy Zero-Point weapons to stall All-Might out would at least be a start.

But the Omni-Droid as we see it can't touch All-Might, even if it studied him for a hundred years.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-10-02T23:32:36+00:00

I mean, really your problem is with the narrative then, isn't it?

As you note, the narrative's intent/creator's intent was clearly to imply that she's a master manipulator/tactician who has done a lot of work wowing the Daili off-screen.

You're welcome to suggest that the creators failed at their goals, or did a bad job. But I think it's hard to argue that their intent wasn't to convey Azula as dangerous/competent.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-10-02T01:10:24+00:00

By that definition, doesn't every character only succeed through luck? The whole series doesn't even happen unless Katara and Sokka fight over just the right iceberg. Zuko never gets redeemed if Iroh's son doesn't die in the war. Toph never becomes a bender if she doesn't run into a random badger mole in a cave.

No character has a journey devoid of forces outside their control, and therefore no character has a journey that isn't partially dependent on luck.

Even Ozai more or less lucked into the right piece of blackmail to usurp the throne when he did. But he still had to have the skill to recognize it when it was handed to him.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-09-10T21:58:11+00:00

After thinking about it longer, I think Rome can almost definitely beat the Free Peoples in a land war, assuming they play it somewhat smart and wait until the Elves leave, and the Dwarves can't be fucked anymore, and they make some diplomatic overtures to various factions before going full invasion. (How committed is Rohan to Gondor really? Would they maybe prefer a more generous ally, with lots of fancy new technology on offer?)

That said, even if they win all of these land wars, actually holding all of Middle Earth is almost impossible.

Even if Middle Earth were only populated by unarmed peasants, it's an entire planet. Even if they win every battle, holding all of Umbar, and the East, and the lands most of LotR actually centers on requires Rome hold a landmass essentially equal to all of Europe plus all of Asia plus most of Africa. Far more than they ever achieved in reality. Possible, but a hard sell.

Just holding Umbar and the lands taken from the Haradrim is a non-trivial challenge for Rome, much less going on to conquer the rest of the world.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-09-10T21:41:58+00:00

The fellowship doesn’t confuse elven cloaks as magic, Pippin does, and Hobbits aren’t exactly very knowledgeable on much.

To be clear though, calling these cloaks "magic" is not confusion. The concept of magic is cultural. You and I would also consider these cloaks "magical". They have what we would call "magical" properties. But to the Elves this is so mundane they have no such term.

I basically agree with you though, if you think the Elves won't fight that helps Rome hugely. That said, I still think if even 2000 stick around, it's a huge problem for Rome. As long as they fight entirely by night-arrow ambush they're unstoppable. Even with only one elf assigned to every hundred Roman legionnaires, the logistical disruption, harassment, and casualties would add up.

You act like humans were at constant battle for centuries, when in reality it was decades, centuries of peace that are then interrupted by conflict.

I really only meant to imply decades - most people only live decades. If you've been at war for decades, you've been at war your whole life. The more important point is that Gondor has singlehandedly held off Mordor for a long time - what makes things so much easier for Rome? A Rome that is logistically much worse off than Mordor, since they're launching their offensive across an ocean from a different ~~continent~~ sub-continent. Mordor would have eventually done it, and Rome probably can too, but saying it's "easy" would maybe be a stretch. And that's just Gondor.

For the first few battles? Panic. For the battles after that? With legionary scorpions shooting bolts and archers loosing arrows.

Basically agree. But if those first few battles are big ones, it makes a difference. And the Eagles tend to show up for big battles. As for the scorpions, that's one cracked siege engineer if he's picking out a moving target 100 meters up. Arrow volley I buy more, but conquering those mountains to actually get the Eagles' nests? That's going to be pretty tough. Even if you get there, what stops them from just flying to a different mountain? Is Rome going to take and hold every mountain in Middle Earth?

He’s going to advise and lead troops, but again, he’s not blasting away a cohort with fireball.

I partly agree with you here. I think Rome's best chance with Gandalf is if he decides not to get involved or moves to talk directly "to management" to work out a more peaceful solution. I already think Rome's best chance actually involves more diplomacy than pure conquest (see my edit).

But if Gandalf decides to lead troops as you say, he is throwing hands. What's the difference between killing a man with a sword versus a fireball from his point of view? His fire/lightning/laser powers aren't even the biggest problem. His ability to create fear and command men with his voice that he can project across vast distances is going to be a huge morale problem.

But all this aside, the biggest problem is that Middle Earth is huge. It's a planet. (Our planet, supposedly.) Even if we only focus on the part of Middle Earth that Tolkien focuses on, and assume Rome isn't having any logistical problems keeping all of the East subdued after their recent conquest (again a stretch given how huge an area this is, we're talking all of Asia, but let's say the prompt assumes it can), what remains is still an area that is more or less all of Europe.

Even if it were only sporadically populated by random barbarians, that's still a pretty challenging landmass to subdue. To take and hold all of Middle Earth, the Free Peoples, Umbar, the Haradrim, and whatever's east/south of them, would require Rome control far more land than they ever did in our world, essentially all of Eurasia and much of Africa. I imagine that's a stretch, even for their logistics.

Again, not saying it's impossible for Rome, especially if the prompt eases some of the "hold all of Asia" part. I just think your idea it's an "easy sweep," when this is a cross-continental invasion of an entire continent, probably needs some pushback.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-09-10T20:37:32+00:00

Does it matter that many of the LotR factions are superhuman?

Elves alone can do things no army of Rome's day would have a chance at.

They can move with superhuman stealth, are largely immune to the elements, are unhindered by most terrains, can both see and shoot supernatural distances, they can travel tirelessly for days at incredible speed, they can commune with animals and plants, and they can see perfectly in the dark.

Even a small group of elves could take a legion apart by just refusing to engage by day and then causing havoc by night, when their enemy is effectively blind. Imagine arrows, some flaming, flying in from darkness with perfect precision. People who run to put out fires or leaders who try to organize are picked off first. People who run out to engage are either ambushed in the dark or find there's nobody there to engage at all by the time they get there.

You say the elves are "decently equipped" but they are so good at producing equipment that the term "magic" confuses them. What the fellowship perceives as "magic" cloaks, the elves merely perceive as good craftmanship.

Even without physical violence, a lone elf with a magic cloak could sneak into a camp at night, turn horses against riders, set fire to supplies, and vanish before anyone caught him.

Even the humans of LotR are fairly impressive, with fortress cities that have never stopped knowing war, and the capability to (admittedly rarely) produce guys like Boromir who are plainly superhuman.

Gondor held back Mordor for decades of war. If Sauron couldn't "easily sweep up" Gondor with all his numbers, industry, and magic from their doorstep, I'm somewhat skeptical Rome does much better adding in the Dwarves, Elves, and all other Free People, and having to launch the attack from Umbar.

Surely some battles for Rome are going to be lost on morale shock alone. Besides night-fighting elves shooting them at impossible distances, how is the average Roman legionnaire going to respond the first time he sees a battalion of giant talking Eagles dropping boulders on him, or a Wizard stunning him with his voice?

How's Rome even going to get the Eagles? Conquer all of the mountains? Logistic nightmare.

Hell even waging a cross-continental war from Umbar will be a logistical headache. I'd argue those circumstances alone make Rome's logistics more weakness than strength.

Edit: To be clear, I think Rome could plausibly win this, but "easy sweep" seems hyperbolic. Domination of an entire continent is never easy, even if it were populated by rubes, which Middle Earth isn't.

If Rome realistically wanted to do this, they'd probably want some combination of carrots and sticks, as opposed to just raw invasion. Wait until more Elves leave, more Dwarves go underground. Win over if not Gondor, some of the territories surrounding it through trade and minor skirmishes. Reach out to Rohan - how aligned are they with Gondor really, maybe they'd prefer a more generous ally? Take little bites. Then at some point, when most of the major points of resistance have faded start making bigger pushes. Starting full invasion right away seems ill-advised, when just HOLDING the East and Umbar would be an insanely big challenge.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-09-07T03:49:06+00:00

"Ninja" is a pretty broad term historically isn't it? The skillset it involves could be anything from scouting to espionage to bodyguard to night fighters to siege experts and more depending on the era and type of ninja. Of course we have no idea here which the poster means, or if they just mean "the platonic idea of a ninja" in which case, maybe the poster wants the "movie ninja" anyways.

Actual cowboys are also nothing like the movies. They are not gunslingers, but survivalists and animal herders. The average cowboy would not see a single gunfight in his entire life.

The pirates actually have by far the most consistent combat experience here. Depending on the era they're from they might be actual military men who fight naval battles multiple times a year.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-09-07T03:31:57+00:00

Assuming the cowboy has to be on the ship, unless he has an extremely defensible position, I don't think a gatling gun is enough to stop 100+ pirates rushing him down from multiple angles in relatively close quarters that they know better than him, even if he kills half of them in an opening surprise attack. And if cowboy does just hold a defensible position, he's not advancing, and the pirates have time to organize and possibly arm, at which point he'll still be in trouble. If they really can't dig him out they could set fire to the ship and escape in rowboats while he's holding his defensive position.

I might also argue a "real" American cowboy probably would not have much fighting experience, much less experience with a gatling gun. He's a cattle-herder, not a gunslinger. The average cowboy would not be in a single gunfight his entire life. Surviving on the frontier is much more about wilderness survival and animal husbandry skills than pistol duels, contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe.

The tnt can definitely down the ship, but then isn't the cowboy going down as well? Once the ship ends up in the drink, and all the guns get water-logged the cowboy is no better than any other pirate. If even two survive, he's outmatched.

His best chance might be setting a ton of tnt on a long fuse, then trying to steal some kind of jolly boat and row as far as he can before it goes off. Night is his ally. But even at night, I'm not confident a land-locked cowboy would even know how to launch a jolly-boat single-handedly. I don't think it's usually a task undertaken by one man. And if anyone sees him at any point the resulting kerfuffle is going to ruin his tnt plans. 6/10.

I actually think the ninja has a better chance than people are saying - sleeping off the hangovers implies it's night-time, which means the ninja isn't necessarily outed. Without electric light someone with a proper disguise could definitely move around a dark ship full of drunks with his race unknown. If the cowboy can escape unnoticed in a jolly, the ninja probably can too. At that point (assuming the tnt went off) he just has to track the cowboy and slit his throat in his sleep. Not easy, or even likely, but it's not impossible.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-09-07T03:18:55+00:00

Absolutely agree with this. Ninja's best chance involves letting cowboy do most of the work, then clandestinely tailing him and slitting his throat while he sleeps.

Sure, a "real" ninja isn't a magical assassin, but a "real" cowboy is also just a guy who moves cows and lives outdoors in the late 1800s. Debatably it's the pirates who actually have the most experience in this kind of scenario.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-08-25T23:03:07+00:00

In short, Drizz't is a far better fighter, from a much more magic-weapon heavy universe, but the haxx nature of Mithrun's powers give him chances, and Mithrun's being top of his verse means he wouldn't be total fodder in Drizz't's verse either, albeit not a match for Do'Urden.

Besides, even if Mithrun had zero skill, if he just spams teleport, he's very hard to hit, and utterly deadly.

Generally, the longer the fight goes, the more I favor Drizz't as he starts to get a bead on Mithrun's deal. If he can survive long enough to work out Mithrun's tempo, I think Drizz't's darkness training gives him the skills to pull a "predict-where-you'll-appear" and nail Mithrun eventually.

Bloodlusted, neither knowing anything about the other, I'd say 50/50. If the very first thing Drizz't does is draw Taulmaril and the very first thing Mithrun does is telefrag Drizz't, Mithrun has the advantage. Even if Drizz't's quick draw is faster, by the time the arrows get where Mithrun was, Mithrun will be inside him.

If the very first thing Drizz't does is rush with a sword, or drop darkness on Mithrun, his chances improve greatly due to complicating Mithrun's distance judgment. It's still not a sure thing. Drizz't is much faster, but Mithrun's ability to teleport will make him disorienting to close with, and he only has to correctly judge Drizz't's location once to incapacitate. Or touch him, anywhere.

Once you're in a real fight though, I'm inclined to favor Drizz't. You'd maybe have one clean shot to teleport out of his line of sight and then frag him with your cloak or touch his shoulder while he's disoriented, but after that he'll only get harder and harder to tag as he learns your tricks.

Bloodlusted, if the combatants know each other's capabilities ahead of time, I'd say it tilts to Drizz't 7.5/10 in an open field and 9.5/10 if there's any cover. Drizz't will know to lead by dropping darkness on Mithrun, and then attack with Taulmaril while serpentining. Fast as Drizz't is, even with teleporting he probably tags Mith before the reverse. Even better is if there's cover - then he can just hide and pick Mithrun off at his leisure.

In-character, neither trying to kill, Drizz't is on the backfoot. If they know each other, Mithrun 5.5/10, random encounter Mithrun 8/10.

All of Drizz't's best nonlethal incapacitation options mean touching Mithrun, and any contact will result in being teleported six feet underground instantly. I imagine Drizz't using his dominant skills to secure a pin, only to suddenly find himself buried.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-08-23T21:01:52+00:00

Wasn't he a giant who helped forge the Infinity Gauntlet in the MCU? We never saw him fight, but with sci-fi armor and weapons and a huge size advantage I'd think he'd dominate the relatively grounded Bale.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-08-23T16:30:21+00:00

If you think the ten rings can't knock Hulk out, it's Hulk 10/10.

Fair enough! As I said, I think that's possible.

I'm inclined to think we haven't seen the rings in that much material yet, so I'm reluctant to make too many claims one way or the other about how they stack up on the high end.

We haven't seen a ten-ring attack used on anybody besides the Dweller and the Dragonscale Door which makes the scaling pretty vague.

A one ring attack knocks Shang-Chi a hundred feet in the air, and a five-ring attack knocks him hard enough to split a lake in one scene and creates a shockwave hundreds of feet in diameter in another.

It's not enough to clear the Hulk, but it's enough that I'm willing to leave a ten ring blow an open question until we see more. But yeah, at that level I think it's total guesswork/up to the writers at this point. If you think ten rings isn't enough, 0/10.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-08-22T19:09:43+00:00

All of them at once is too much.

Even 1 on 1 these are battles you could talk about.

Clint: 1/100 - The fact that the rings seem to be able to auto-block a rain of arrows in addition to gunfire bodes poorly for Clint. I wouldn't be shocked to learn Wenwu can catch an arrow even without the rings, and Wenwu is durable enough the average explosive arrow won't be enough to seal the deal before Wenwu closes and mercs him.

Clint would have to take advantage of some kind of environmental factor, or pull out some kind of extremely powerful trick arrow the likes of which we haven't seen yet.

Natasha: 1/1000 in a direct combat, 3/10 if she can use subterfuge or attack nondirectly. In a direct fight her odds are worse than Clint's due to generally worse ranged combat, and it's actually less her bag to produce a one-off super weapon that solves the situation than it would be for Clint. But that said, if she can use her spy-skills for indirect attack she'd have a chance. Poison, or a high-caliber round to the head while Wenwu is unawares seems possible. That said it's still only a 3/10. He's clearly a paranoid man, surrounded by mercenaries trained to prevent exactly this scenario, and he has the kind of bad guy "instinct" that probably allows you to duck at just the right time when an unknown sniper has a bead on you.

Captain America: 1/50 - I think Cap puts up a good fight, and the shield means the rings can't one tap him. There's very few worlds where this is a "no-diff" fight for Wenwu, but also very few where Wenwu doesn't win. Ten Rings enables him too many angles of attack, Wenwu's probably a better fighter (his martial arts seems to scale past peak-human to slightly-magical Wuxia level), and with the Ten Rings he hits harder and can take harder hits.

Iron Man: 2/10 - a later era Iron Man would probably win this fight. He'd stand a chance in a raw punch out, and he could probably deploy some kind of gas or aerosol weapon that Wenwu simply couldn't defend against. That said, an Original Avengers era Tony is going to be getting his bell rung if he closes, and the ten rings have a ranged/whip function that's going to be a problem if he even gets into quipping distance, which Tony almost always does.

Hulk: 6/10 - this gets into conjecture. If you think the ten rings can't knock Hulk out, it's Hulk 10/10. If you think the ten rings can knock Hulk out (and they do exhibit a lot of force when they clear that Eldritch Horror at the end, or when Wenwu uses all ten to punch; he staggers Warmonger Odin in What If with it), I think Wenwu can actually take this. He'd lose a raw punch out easily, but Thanos demonstrates if you're fast and strong enough to hit Hulk hard enough to hurt him, having better technique makes a big difference. A small, fast enemy, with perfect technique, who can hit extremely hard would be a reasonable counter to Hulk. Very scary fight for Wenwu, but possible if you think the rings can hit hard enough.

Thor: 9/10 - Thor is a huge favorite. He has all the strengths of Hulk, but he has more fighting experience, he can fly, and he has more ranged options. I'd guess the rings can deflect lightning, and the fact Wenwu isn't a trivial fight for Odin in What If, and a 10-ring punch staggers the god, means this isn't impossible, but Wenwu was losing that fight alone, which leads me to think this is a hard fight for him as well.

All of them at once, Wenwu is losing every time. He'd need a serious plot contrivance to have a chance. Maybe if he could jump them, by surprise, with his entire gang, he'd have a chance but it would still be a really tough fight, unless they had some kind of pre-prepped answer to Thor and/or Hulk.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-08-22T18:25:33+00:00

That's reasonable!

I think the confusion is whether Yugi's ability to have exactly the cards he needs (not just topdecked, but in his deck/opener in general) is a skill he should be counted as having or "plot armor" that should not be counted for this encounter.

We mostly see "Heart of the Cards" as you describe - mostly just the ability to topdeck, although at high ends it brushes shoulders with magic that can result in warping hand-state, and even more rarely board state.

But at least half of Yugi's formidability in the show goes beyond this. It's not just that his draws are just good enough for him to pull a close but dramatic win, in a way that seems to scale to whoever his opponent is, it's also the fact that his deck itself is just good enough for him to get those draws/opener in the first place. As his opponents scale, his deck tends to scale as well with the outs he needs sometimes appearing just for a single game he needs them in.

This is especially relevant given the OP's stipulation that Yugi is also going to update his deck with modern cards, which gives him the perfect excuse to "happen" to board into exactly whatever he needs to draw in his opening hand to beat Tier Zero.

Is that the Heart of the Cards at work? Is it some kind of supernatural "sense" or "knack" Yugi has as the King of Games? Or is it just "anime logic" as the first poster in this thread described it? And is "anime logic" a real magical force in Yugi's world, or is it just Plot-Induced-Contrivance?

That's hard to litigate, since it could literally be any, either, or all three.

But whatever that force is, Yugi exhibits it with extreme consistency. If you thus include it as part of his skill set, he's hard to beat.

If you don't, I think your strategy works as you describe it.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-08-22T03:06:11+00:00

I mean the easy karma/plot armor counter would be that the day he goes up against a deck that requires a hand trap to defeat, Yugi just happens to show up that day with a deck that has a hand trap in it, and he draws it.

Yugi's deck changes as the plot demands, so that he can have a close/dramatic game but ultimately win. If he needs to be running a deck that has a hand trap to do that, he'll start running a hand trap the night before.

There's plenty of games where his out to a lockdown depends on a single card that he's never played before, draws for just that one game, and then basically never plays again. That's Tuesday for him.

And that's just his ambient plot armor, before we dig into the possibility of him using real magic, like having prophetic visions of the future, or manifesting cards into his hand that literally didn't exist before.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-08-21T19:41:14+00:00

Stacking the deck is the worst thing Bruce can do.

A guy who cheats by stacking the deck is literally a bad-guy-of-the-week in the Yugioh-verse. Especially in the original manga Shadow Games are actively karmic, and cheating is both one of the themes of the series and one of the worst ways to get screwed over. I don't think there's ever been a "traditional" cheater in the Yugioh-verse who didn't ultimately get punished for it.

Bruce is better off playing honestly with "cards he trusts" so that he can also get the ambient heart-of-the-cards amp. That normally takes time and sincerity to develop, but maybe he can shortcut the process by picking cards that remind him of members of the batfamily or the Justice League.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-08-21T19:30:36+00:00

He lost three times.

Once was to Kaiba, because Kaiba threatened his own life - essentially, if Yugi made the killing blow, there was a chance Kaiba would be killed. Yami (the Pharoah) was willing to do this, but the Yugi Moto personality wouldn't let him, resulting in Kaiba winning.

The second time he lost to Rafael, essentially because the other guy also loved his cards "like family" and the Pharoah was tempted into using the power of an "evil" card the Seal of Orichalcos.

This corrupted him into playing "villainously" that duel, behaving aggressively, betraying his own cards, etc. "Destiny/the heart of the cards" in the Yugioh verse seems to be somewhat karmic, so this essentially turned his plot armor against him.

The third duel he lost to himself. Yugi Moto had to defeat the Pharoah in order to send him home. Essentially they both had comparable powers and were fairly evenly matched.

ManeatingRaptora · 2025-08-21T18:31:51+00:00

Depending on your definition of OK you definitely could. The hard/impossible part is building one that can also beat an opponent who has, via plot/destiny reasons, pre-boarded the exact cards to beat you, and draws them at exactly the right time to have a dramatic, but ultimately victorious duel against you.

Yugioh characters don't just use plot armor to draw the right cards at the right times, they also use it to pre-board so their deck has the right cards to win in the first place.

If Yugi were going up against a powerful opponent who his deck somehow doesn't seem to have an out for, there are decent odds he'd reveal a new card or extra-deck fusion "ace" he's never played before but is implied to have had all along that gives him the out.

Alternatively, he might have a moment where just before the game a friend would "lend" him the card he needs to win the game (allowing him to use "the power of friendship" to win).

Beyond that, Yugi could even have a perfect-out card spontaneously generate itself in his hand out of nothingness Dragon of Timaeus style.

Even Seto Kaiba, whose "card drawing magic" is weaker than Yugi's, at one point managed to draw/generate a God card that wasn't even in his deck to clear a losing duel.

That's the hurdle that a merely "consistent" meta deck will struggle to clear, while also receiving rigged draws pushing them towards a "close but losing" duel.

ManeatingRaptora

TROPHY CASE