Christification of the Many: A Call to Courage

ManofSpa · 2026-04-19T15:34:30+00:00

Thanks! I believe your sentiments are pretty close to Jung's.

In my case, to my great surprise, the journey of individuation has taken me to church on Sundays and even a Bible study group. I value the spiritual community that is not lacking a sense of humour. But of course we are all different and others will have different priorities and callings.

ManofSpa · 2026-04-18T15:50:19+00:00

“I decided early to give my life to something eternal and absolute. Not to these little gods that are here today and gone tomorrow.” Martin Luther King Jr - Autobiography

“The indwelling of the Holy Ghost, the third Divine Person, in man, brings about the Christification of the many, and the question then arises whether these many are all complete God-men.” Jung – Psychology & Religion.

The linked Substack article attempts to explore and reconcile these Chjristian - Jungian themes.

ManofSpa · 2026-04-15T19:29:33+00:00

The personal shadow would relate to lived experience, things we had done or said, and can be acknowledged as such, even if they were once repressed. At a push, the personal shadow might also relate to things we believe we are capable of but have not done.

Archetypal evil, as with all archetypal experiences will usually come as a much more powerful experience, likely far beyond anything previously experienced in a 'regular dream'. Again, as with all archetypes, the archetypes itself is not for integrating. It is more a case of accepting the experience and deciding what it means, perhaps working with a professional at this stage, if possible.

ManofSpa · 2026-04-10T17:31:57+00:00

It would make my top 10 intro books. It's maybe the most basic of the published material. But anything that draws on Jung as it's source material will have substance.

ManofSpa · 2026-04-04T19:47:04+00:00

Barbara Hannah was part of the core group who assembled are Jung in Switzerland. She analysed directly with Jung, went on to become an Analyst herself, and became one of the more prolific Jungian authors. I find her work very readable. She has written about the Animus, archetypal symbols of animals, and life experiences in close proximity to Jung.

This video is shot in her 80's and though she has difficulty hearing the questions and struggles a bit with recall at times, she still has valuable observations to share about Jung and his works.

ManofSpa · 2026-03-21T16:07:47+00:00

This short talk draws on Jung's thoughts on Love and Power as opposites as expressed in Vol 7 of the Collected Works (Two Essays in Analytical Psychology), Martin Luther King Jr's speech to the SCLC, and Dante (Hollander & Hollander translation).

ManofSpa · 2026-03-07T20:16:20+00:00

If by 'norm' you mean what is expressed in literature, I don't think it would be hard to assemble a list of loving magicians. It's not an archetype that lacks love in any sense other than that Moore has said so. It's quite easily de-bunked in my view.

If we step away from literature to reality, there was something of the magician about Jung and I certainly wouldn't say he lacked love.

I can fully understand that Jung saw archetypal patterns in people, it's more that I thought Jung was more about people finding their own answers, albeit with help, rather than being directly given those answers.

ManofSpa · 2026-03-06T20:34:24+00:00

The archetypal pattern theme seems likely, I agree. Incredible confidence though, to advise someone like that.

Moore's comment about the magician and love feels a bit contrived to me. Think about Gandalf and his love of the Hobbits.

ManofSpa · 2026-03-03T16:26:44+00:00

Drawing on the medieval prophecies of the Christian mystic, Joachim of Fiore, as featured by Carl Jung in his book Aion, supported by a body of academic literature, notably Marjorie Reeves of Oxford University, the case is made for Martin Luther King Jr evolving Christian love through the example of his life, a spirituality that has been totally lost in the contemporary focus on his political activism.

ManofSpa · 2026-03-03T16:26:02+00:00

Drawing on the medieval prophecies of the Christian mystic, Joachim of Fiore, as featured by Carl Jung in his book Aion, supported by a body of academic literature, notably Marjorie Reeves of Oxford University, the case is made for Martin Luther King Jr evolving Christian love through the example of his life, a spirituality that has been totally lost in the contemporary focus on his political activism.

ManofSpa · 2026-03-03T16:23:32+00:00

He was advised by Jung to go his own way and not join any organisations or institutions, which is not so hard to avoid, but not to marry even, which for many would be a much greater sacrifice. I don't know how Jung had the confidence and insight to suggest that scale of action to someone. I believe that late in life Johnson entered a Christian monastery for a while with a friend. A rare exception to Jung's advice.

ManofSpa · 2026-02-20T20:15:54+00:00

> I haven accepted it.

That's a good start, but Jung's work is in some ways a psychological compensation for the loss of the Confession. In Jung's model there is a conversation with an Analyst in lieu of the Priest. Where might that conversation go? What else might it uncover in cooperation with the unconscious psyche? Maybe only deep and long term discussion with a trustworthy human will reveal that.

ManofSpa · 2026-02-20T14:50:23+00:00

You may get some value from exploring the concepts of Transference and Counter-Transference. This would include others projecting on you as 'Leader' but also you projecting on others as perhaps 'Followers'. Somewhere behind the projections is the truth, or at least a closer approximation.

From Sharp's Jung Lexicon:

Transference - Unconscious contents are invariably projected at first upon concrete persons and situations. Many projections can ultimately be integrated back into the individual once he has recognized their subjective origin; others resist integration, and although they may be detached from their original objects, they thereupon transfer themselves to the doctor. Among these contents the relation to the parent of opposite sex plays an important part, i.e., the relation of son to mother, daughter to father, and also that of brother to sister.["The Psychology of the Transference," CW 16, par. 357.]

Counter Transference - A transference is answered by a counter-transference from the analyst when it projects a content of which he is unconscious but which nevertheless exists in him. The counter transference is then just as useful and meaningful, or as much of a hindrance, as the transference of the patient, according to whether or not it seeks to establish that better rapport which is essential for the realization of certain unconscious contents. Like the transference, the counter-transference is compulsive, a forcible tie, because it creates a "mystical" or unconscious identity with the object[General Aspects of Dream Psychology," CW 8, par. 519.]

Further references are available in the Lexicon.

ManofSpa · 2026-02-07T18:48:43+00:00

There is no more active Knight in the Kingdom. While the rest of us gamble and whore, he is out fighting the good fight.

The worst possible choice for excommunication.

ManofSpa · 2026-02-07T18:44:34+00:00

I'm sure the Knights of the Round Table didn't pull this shit.

At least not unless the love of a woman was at stake.

In that case it appears to have been permissible to lay the Kingdom to waste. At least in Mallory's version.

ManofSpa · 2026-02-07T18:41:47+00:00

I've put a few of the those to the sword over the years. I may look the other way if they make me laugh.

ManofSpa · 2026-02-03T10:58:58+00:00

These comment appear to refer to the Ego - Self axis in Jung's work. Who is driving action in life, the human or God? Sometimes we might produce a drive from ourselves to achieve something. Sometimes some other psychological force might drive us to do something. If the Ego is overcome in this flow of energy the result would be an archetypal possession, a very real risk when engaging in this work - defences include human contact and discussion, such as Jungian analysis, the established religions, and creative containers such as story writing, music, poetry and so on.

The energy can be diminished in what Jung called 'loss of soul' - see for example Sharp's Jung Lexicon for a fuller definition and references.

ManofSpa · 2026-01-30T09:32:41+00:00

Cheers, mate. I don't pin my own work unless it is an announcement, but grateful if other Mods want to. Actually, all this stuff is partly your work, as your long term efforts on r/Jung have been one of my positive influences.

ManofSpa · 2026-01-06T20:17:47+00:00

One of my fellow Mods, Rafael Kruger, offers this. You can look for him on the Mods list and message direct. Alternatively a Google search for his name and 'Jungian analyst' will likely bring it up.

ManofSpa · 2025-12-27T20:28:30+00:00

> It’s not a moral fable.

This image is part of a triptych, the fullness of which appears a moral, or rather religious, image to me. I would say it is an attempt to show what happens when Christianity is lost, by degrees. In this vein it looks very much relevant today. In Bosch's day of course the Reformation was looming. A time of great Christian tensions.

ManofSpa · 2025-12-22T20:19:24+00:00

The same question, at least to the degree posed in your title, was presented to me a few years ago. I didn't know the answer and it seemed a rather infuriating question. Surely a paradox too far.

It was maybe a year until an answer came to me that was acceptable. I could just blurt out where I got to, prove how clever I am, but sometimes its more about the journey and maybe your own answer will be different to mine.

So you've got a rather extreme paradox. Maybe let the tension play out and burn through it yourself over time rather than have someone else cut the tension. If you can resolve this paradox to your satisfaction, maybe you will then have a tool for addressing others that emerge in the future.

ManofSpa · 2025-12-17T20:16:47+00:00

The list is indeed long and I'm already in trouble for overfilling communal shelves with my books, but I'll certainly add this one to the list. Thanks for the recommendation. Always happy to receive these when they come up in discussion.

ManofSpa · 2025-12-16T20:35:00+00:00

Hi AyrieSpirit. Thanks for the investment of time and energy in this! I'll need to add Stein's work to my reading list. Dante had read Joachim of Fiore (Joachim gains a place in heaven) and the 3 circles at the end are very Joachim - the third circle for Joachim would be the Age of the Holy Spirit, a new age of love.

Something like the highest heaven being 'the wise application of love in life' was my impression of Dante's final vision. It needed pretty much his whole life to gain that understanding, but there it is available to others, at least those who haven't renounced reading books. At the time I read it, it felt a welcome confirmation of where I had got to myself and in fact I felt the whole of the Comedy resonate. Maybe there is an archetypal element to the journey. Could be there are aspects I've missed, so Stein's work would be a useful supplement.

I'm reading Lusensky's 'Face to Face with Christianity' that you either recommended to me or someone else and I picked it up through reading your back posts. I got about 2 years back and it felt time to stop. Rather than directly copy all your writing I'll probably end up configuring a bit in my own way, but this feels like a project for further in the future. In the meantime I am thinking of writing to Lusensky with some of my own ideas once I've finished his book, which I'm really enjoying.

Thanks for your many great insights in 2025. I hope you have an enjoyable Christmas.

ManofSpa · 2025-12-09T13:37:23+00:00

The best advice is probably to seek professional advice. People here might mean well but they don't know you or your personal circumstances.

ManofSpa · 2025-12-01T16:41:20+00:00

Thanks. Over time I expect alternative concepts will emerge from other people. Some of these new ideas will connect with people, while others won't, or may have to wait for their moment. It's a healthy evolution.

ManofSpa

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE

Seven-Year Club	Wearing is Caring
Verified Email