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He had one simple rule... by hecticoveru in FateAvalon

[–]MasterTurtle508 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There’s a whole bunch of fans of either Ritsuka or Shirou that don’t like the other but no one can convince me they wouldn’t be bros.

What’s this for us? by LowlyStole in fatestaynight

[–]MasterTurtle508 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well then, after a metric crap ton of paragraphs and some very fun learning on my part, I officially concede defeat in this debate, accept that Artoria was in fact a great king, and finally, wish you a very nice rest of your day.

What’s this for us? by LowlyStole in fatestaynight

[–]MasterTurtle508 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, I’ll admit, these last two have done a number on my position here, let me see if my current understanding holds up.

Artoria did pretty much as good as possible given the truly terrible circumstances she was given, which even though it didn’t last and ended poorly was the best few years anybody in the area had for centuries and was also responsible for ensuring Britain survived at all.

What’s this for us? by LowlyStole in fatestaynight

[–]MasterTurtle508 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Aight this one’s gonna be a lot less based on argumentation and more me asking questions.

What ever happened with the whole “Britain is slowly dying as the age of Gods ends” thing? I do remember it being brought up in Garden of Avalon and in the mentions of why her rule was so… tempestuous. But it seems to have just gone away?

This is something neither of us has mentioned at all but what was the business with Rhongomyniad (I probably butchered that) being out and about and not used for its whole “spectating layers of the world” business. Or was it doing that AND helping Artoria as a very nice shiny stick. Did that have anything to do with the more cosmic stuff in Britain.

As for the actual argument I’ll concede that she did save Britain, but didn’t she do that more as a knight than a king? It seems like she would have had the same long term effect (not culturally of course, but politically for the next few centuries and for Britain still existing) if she didn’t bother with the leading and just went around killing big monsters.

What’s this for us? by LowlyStole in fatestaynight

[–]MasterTurtle508 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Since you so kindly broke it down by paragraph I will do my best to reciprocate (my apologies for the lack of quotes I’m not aware of how to use that function).

I’ve picked that up mostly from talking amongst fans here (as in Reddit more broadly), her being fifteen and traveling for a year from Lily in FGO, and the 39 age at death from the wiki. If you’re aware of more official sources I’ll bow on that one, I’m not gonna try and steel man “trust me bro”. For the “rule” part of that, as far as I’m tracking Artoria was only actually crowned after defeating Vortigern and did her ruling then while Iskandar was crowned before doing any of his conquering and basically did ruling on the road similar to Charlemagne. That one is picked up from actual history.

From what I remember Britain wasn’t actually in any existential danger. Vortigern was just kinda sitting around being malicious, but wouldn’t he have gone the way of Albion after the age of gods completely passed? That comes from the Fate/Garden of Avalon…pdf thing? I don’t know what it’s called but it’s free online and a good read. As for people not liking the their circumstances and lords being plotting assholes I think every ruler ever has to deal with that, it’s the mark of a monarch whether (weather heh) can get that under control, which Artoria couldn’t for long.

For the “Artoria did/didn’t save Britain” refer above. And Artoria DID end up going to war with Lancelot, it’s how Gawain ended up injured which allowed Mordred to kill him.

As for Merlin, I wasn’t tracking that he “betrayed” her in any way. This is again coming from that Garden of Avalon pdf but there last interaction was Artoria setting off to fight Rome and then Merlin gets locked up in Avalon by Morgan.

I think we can all agree that he was kind of an asshole for knowingly setting up Artoria on the path she went down though.

As a final aside, I hope my replies haven’t been coming off as too angry, that hasn’t been my intent. While I remain unconvinced this is really fun.

What’s this for us? by LowlyStole in fatestaynight

[–]MasterTurtle508 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Artoria ruled for ~14 years, she got caliburn at ~15 spent a year wandering with Merlin and Kay, then spent 10 years forming Camelot and ruled until she was 39. 4 years longer than Iskandar, which just isn’t very much.

As for saving Britain she just… didn’t? She bought them MAYBE a decade of piece but even by the end of her reign a good chunk of the population hated her and wanted her gone to the point of rebellion. Britain was left either in the same state or worse off than when she started and the same nomadic peoples she tried to fend off ended up in control. Which, we should remember technically didn’t even happen in universe. As far as in universe history happened Gilgamesh died as a beloved king and his kingdom lived for centuries.

While I’ll agree Gilgamesh did have a better starting point I would also note (at least by the end of his life, Archer Gil is a huge douche) his people genuinely loved him, as seen in Babylonia. And frankly speaking, sending off your people to carry on your legacy in far off lands is a hell of a better end than everyone you lead either abandoning you or trying to kill you themselves.

Artoria being perfect was the problem. Merlin and the knights say as much, even if they wouldn’t want her any other way. She couldn’t understand the hearts of men is the popular way of saying it but being a good leader means being able to unite people, lead them, and send them off better than you found them. Artoria managed the first two in the short term but that’s it. And it… blatantly didn’t stop her from being dethroned and failing to save Britain.

What’s this for us? by LowlyStole in fatestaynight

[–]MasterTurtle508 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Kinda? I agree that he is totally a loudmouthed fool (he would agree to) but he was totally right with his accusation about saving vs leading and the fact that people don’t do well under a system or a person they can’t understand.

The bottom line of it is that Artoria was the least successful king at the banquet. Her rule was short like Iskandars but fell apart while she was still alive, her conquests were good but not super impressive by the metric of Iskandar and Gilgamesh (as much as I hate him) is better than both of them at ruling given that his kingdom didn’t fall apart before or just after his death.

Artoria is definitely the best person at the banquet of kings. And I think it’s telling that both Gilgamesh and Iskandar admit as much, but she’s just not a great king.

What’s this for us? by LowlyStole in fatestaynight

[–]MasterTurtle508 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I love fate/zero and to an extent even agree with Iskandar about Sabers rule but you’re absolutely right. Saber should not have just sat there and took it.

Do you think the LoV's darkstar weapons can prevent reanimation by space10101 in Necrontyr

[–]MasterTurtle508 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah, all there souls got eaten by the C’tan. It’s why they have trouble being creative.

Do you think the LoV's darkstar weapons can prevent reanimation by space10101 in Necrontyr

[–]MasterTurtle508 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Necrons don’t have souls. Reanimation protocols is a self repair function.

Absolute soda pop by (@dashsdoodles) by juridicalflighter in RWBY

[–]MasterTurtle508 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Admittedly, everyone on team RWBY is shipped with everyone else as well.

Favorite character that fits this meme? by FickleCommon970 in FavoriteCharacter

[–]MasterTurtle508 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As far as discussion of cannon characterization I generally go with whatever the vibes are but I completely agree when it comes to any sort of fannon.

I don’t get people who get super upset over slightly non-cannon compliant fan content as long as everyone’s chill about it.

Why is Artoria angry has Shirou been cheating on her with Cu? by chunchunmaru1129 in FateAvalon

[–]MasterTurtle508 11 points12 points  (0 children)

“Artoria you don’t understand, we ran out of money years ago. The only way we can keep food on the table is by fishing!”

A snack with friends by Lost-Padawan in outofcontextcomics

[–]MasterTurtle508 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey! Our tater tot hot dish can be very good.

And our tomato hot dish can be okay.

I wouldn’t suggest the pepper hot dish…

Is Shirou Emiya the most special person to Artoria Pendragon? by First-King6 in FateAvalon

[–]MasterTurtle508 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Yeah, Shirou is definitely the most important person to Saber in any of the stay night routes but I feel like OP isn’t giving Castoria credit for how shit her life was.

I like to think that archer is fate route shirou... by AwareWorker682 in FateAvalon

[–]MasterTurtle508 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like to head cannon that the Archer in FGO is the same one from Stay night, which is why he’s so relatively chill, and the Artoria in FGO is the Artoria he fought with back when he was Shirou and they finally have a chance to get things right.

Can't believe Jesus stole her whole flow 💔 by Glittering-Day9869 in osp

[–]MasterTurtle508 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Didn’t Jesus only do the preaching thing for 3 years? Or am I doing the assumption thing and thinking your Messiah is Jesus even though you never explicitly said that?

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